14 replies to this topic

[gashinshotan]

I started dipping to replace smoking and it's worked so far. Its also convenient when studying where I can get the nicotine memory enhancement and stimulation without having to smoke or go outside. Tobacco dip has a LOW risk of cancer relative to cigarettes and is a lot cheaper (2 bucks for a can). Now a lot of tobacco companies are trying to bring over Swedish Snus which has shown to have no link with any form of cancer except a small link with pancreatic cancer. What do you guys think of smokeless tobacco?

[ajnast4r]

you have to be kidding me? dont think that because incidence of cancer from dip are less than cigarettes, that they still are not high. dip causes PLENTY of cancer, dont kid yourself. dont believe a word the tobacco companies say about any form of tobacco being safe, because its simply NOT true... they are the ultimate peddlers of death.

the only safe form of nicotene is nicotene gum.



http://www.nci.nih.g...bacco/smokeless


Chewing tobacco and snuff contain 28 carcinogens (cancer–causing agents). The most harmful carcinogens in smokeless tobacco are the tobacco–specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). They are formed during the growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. TSNAs have been detected in some smokeless tobacco products at levels many times higher than levels of other types of nitrosamines that are allowed in foods, such as bacon and beer.


http://www.oralcance...facts/index.htm
http://www.oralcance...bacco/index.htm

More than 34,000 Americans will be diagnosed with oral or pharyngeal cancer this year. It will cause over 8,000 deaths, killing roughly 1 person per hour, 24 hours per day. Of those 34,000 newly diagnosed individuals, only half will be alive in 5 years.



http://www.cancer.or...ess_Tobacco.asp

Smokeless tobacco products are not a safe substitute for tobacco smoking. Harmful health effects include:

* oral (mouth) cancer
* pancreatic cancer
* addiction to nicotine
* leukoplakia (white sores in the mouth that can lead to cancer)
* receding gums (gums slowly shrink away from around the teeth)
* bone loss around the roots of the teeth
* abrasion (scratching and wearing down) of teeth
* staining of teeth
* bad breath

Edited by ajnast4r, 15 March 2008 - 08:38 PM.

[kclo4x]

I believe i have read that nicotine itself is carcinogenic, but i am not sure, and i haven't searched for a source.
However nicotine alone isn't good for you, ignoring any cancer risk because it increases blood pressure, glucose levels, and it has effects on insulin also.
If it is memory, or cognition that you want, why not find some sort of nootropic/supplement that would actually be good for you?

[gashinshotan]

you have to be kidding me? dont think that because incidence of cancer from dip are less than cigarettes, that they still are not high. dip causes PLENTY of cancer, dont kid yourself. dont believe a word the tobacco companies say about any form of tobacco being safe, because its simply NOT true... they are the ultimate peddlers of death.

the only safe form of nicotene is nicotene gum.



http://www.nci.nih.g...bacco/smokeless


Chewing tobacco and snuff contain 28 carcinogens (cancer–causing agents). The most harmful carcinogens in smokeless tobacco are the tobacco–specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). They are formed during the growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. TSNAs have been detected in some smokeless tobacco products at levels many times higher than levels of other types of nitrosamines that are allowed in foods, such as bacon and beer.


http://www.oralcance...facts/index.htm
http://www.oralcance...bacco/index.htm

More than 34,000 Americans will be diagnosed with oral or pharyngeal cancer this year. It will cause over 8,000 deaths, killing roughly 1 person per hour, 24 hours per day. Of those 34,000 newly diagnosed individuals, only half will be alive in 5 years.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? READ THOSE REPORTS, THEY DON'T CITE A SINGLE SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL ON SMOKELESS TOBACCO EFFECTS. ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST THE GOVERNMENT'S WORD? WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT 34, 000 AMERICANS WHO WERE DIAGNOSED WITH ORAL AND PHARYNGEAL CANCER WERE MOSTLY SMOKELESS TOBACCO USERS? WHERE DOES IT TALK ABOUT THE MEDICAL STUDIES OF SNUS WHICH REVEALED NO LINK WITH ANY FORM OF CANCER EXCEPT AN SIGNIFICANT ONE WITH PANCREATIC CANCER?

http://www.cancer.or...ess_Tobacco.asp

Smokeless tobacco products are not a safe substitute for tobacco smoking. Harmful health effects include:

* oral (mouth) cancer
* pancreatic cancer
* addiction to nicotine
* leukoplakia (white sores in the mouth that can lead to cancer)
* receding gums (gums slowly shrink away from around the teeth)
* bone loss around the roots of the teeth
* abrasion (scratching and wearing down) of teeth
* staining of teeth
* bad breath

PULLING SHIT OUT OF THE ANTI-CANCER ORGANIZATIONS' ASSES DOESN'T MAKE WHAT COME OUT TRUE. THEY LIED ABOUT WHAT THE SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS THEY CITED FOUND TO PROVE THEIR CLAIMS. THESE ARTICLES: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15187813 AND http://www.cababstra...cNo=20053129132 WERE CITED BY http://www.cancer.or...ess_Tobacco.asp AS PROOF OF CARDIOVASCULAR PROBLEMS OF SMOKELESS TOBACCO WHILE THESE STUDY FOUND THE DATA TO BE INCONCLUSIVE - THATS RIGHT THE ASSHOLE CANCER ORGANIZATION LIED. WHILE NUMEROUS STUDIES PUBLISHED BY THAT SAME ASSHOLE GOVERNMENT PROVES THAT SNUS HAS NO LINK WITH CANCER AND IMPROVES SMOKING CESSATION (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14660766) AND THERE ARE NO INCREASES IN ORAL CANCER AMONG SMOKELESS TOBACCO USERS THAN NON-USERS (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9868728) WHILE IN SWEDEN TWO CENTURIES OF SMOKELESS TOBACCO USE HAS PRODUCED RARE CASES OF CANCER (http://www.tobaccopr...pdf/TC12349.pdf).


IF YOU WANT TO SUCK AND SWALLOW WHAT THE GOVERNMENT AND CANCER FOUNDATION PROPOGANDA MACHINE SPEWS OUT IS FINE WITH ME. JUST DON'T CLAIM ANYTHING THEY PUBLISH IS TRUE WHEN THEY STRAIGHT OUT LIE ABOUT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES AT ALL OR WHEN THEY LIE ABOUT WHAT THOSE STUDIES FOUND.

Edited by cnorwood, 16 March 2008 - 07:26 PM.
Reduced size of font to reasonable levels

[gashinshotan]

I believe i have read that nicotine itself is carcinogenic, but i am not sure, and i haven't searched for a source.
However nicotine alone isn't good for you, ignoring any cancer risk because it increases blood pressure, glucose levels, and it has effects on insulin also.
If it is memory, or cognition that you want, why not find some sort of nootropic/supplement that would actually be good for you?

Nicotine isn't carcinogenic while it is good for you in that it prevents Alzheimer's disease (the most common neurodegenerative disease in humans) and Parkinson's disease while having insignificant links with cardiovascular problems as found by numerous scientific journals.

[niner]

you have to be kidding me? dont think that because incidence of cancer from dip are less than cigarettes, that they still are not high. dip causes PLENTY of cancer, dont kid yourself. dont believe a word the tobacco companies say about any form of tobacco being safe, because its simply NOT true... they are the ultimate peddlers of death.

I don't think anyone is saying dip is "safe", just that it is safer than cigarettes. I'm pretty sure this has been shown to be the case.

[ajnast4r]

THE GOVERNMENT AND CANCER FOUNDATION PROPOGANDA MACHINE SPEWS

this is absolutely the most stupid thing i have ever heard said on imminst... congratulations. i guess every government and medical organization in the world is just full of shit... working for the evil cancer foundation propogandha machine?


have fun ending up like this guy:

Edited by ajnast4r, 16 March 2008 - 01:12 PM.

[gashinshotan]

THE GOVERNMENT AND CANCER FOUNDATION PROPOGANDA MACHINE SPEWS

this is absolutely the most stupid thing i have ever heard said on imminst... congratulations. i guess every government and medical organization in the world is just full of shit... working for the evil cancer foundation propogandha machine?


have fun ending up like this guy:

Yes... a couple people who have been chewing tobacco since they were pre-adolescents... does it bother you at all that the reason they got cancer was because they were still developing?

Again read the citations they lie about and read the ones I posted that showed NO increase in cancer incidence among smokeless tobacco users.

[Athanasios]

Yes... a couple people who have been chewing tobacco since they were pre-adolescents... does it bother you at all that the reason they got cancer was because they were still developing?

Again read the citations they lie about and read the ones I posted that showed NO increase in cancer incidence among smokeless tobacco users.

I have not researched smokeless tobacco but have done quite a bit on cigar smoking. I see that the researchers are encouraged to lump all tobacco products within the same damage category as cigarettes regardless of actual damage. I would keep researching scientific journals on the matter and come to your own conclusion, since it is so hard to find people to look at tobacco use somewhat objectively.

[gashinshotan]

Yes... a couple people who have been chewing tobacco since they were pre-adolescents... does it bother you at all that the reason they got cancer was because they were still developing?

Again read the citations they lie about and read the ones I posted that showed NO increase in cancer incidence among smokeless tobacco users.

I have not researched smokeless tobacco but have done quite a bit on cigar smoking. I see that the researchers are encouraged to lump all tobacco products within the same damage category as cigarettes regardless of actual damage. I would keep researching scientific journals on the matter and come to your own conclusion, since it is so hard to find people to look at tobacco use somewhat objectively.

Exactly! That's the reason for my angry post; the government and cancer foundations are blatantly biased but people are willing to surrender their intellect to these authorities out of fear and laziness.

[Athanasios]

the government and cancer foundations are blatantly biased

Yeah, and I do not think it is the right way to go. The ends do not justify the means because the means always catches up with you. It reminds me of the war on drugs and how everything seems to be emphasized as bad and equally so. I have heard quite a few folks of sound mind say that they think these two categories (drugs and smoking) are being used to curtail individual rights.

[gashinshotan]

THE GOVERNMENT AND CANCER FOUNDATION PROPOGANDA MACHINE SPEWS

this is absolutely the most stupid thing i have ever heard said on imminst... congratulations. i guess every government and medical organization in the world is just full of shit... working for the evil cancer foundation propogandha machine?


have fun ending up like this guy:

On another note... according to this research article which I found on the government's website http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9868728, "West Virginia is the state with the highest per capita consumption of smokeless tobacco, yet it has less oral/pharyngeal cancer than the US average."

Edited by gashinshotan, 16 March 2008 - 08:01 PM.

[gashinshotan]

the government and cancer foundations are blatantly biased

Yeah, and I do not think it is the right way to go. The ends do not justify the means because the means always catches up with you. It reminds me of the war on drugs and how everything seems to be emphasized as bad and equally so. I have heard quite a few folks of sound mind say that they think these two categories (drugs and smoking) are being used to curtail individual rights.

It's the product of the continued influence of the Christian right as well as liberal trends against tobacco. Our rights our being assaulted on two fronts by two different ideologies!

[niner]

have fun ending up like this guy:

I like that he has a cigarette behind his ear. Moved on, I guess. I wonder if he has a comically squeaky voice?

[modelcadet]

have fun ending up like this guy:

I like that he has a cigarette behind his ear. Moved on, I guess. I wonder if he has a comically squeaky voice?

I wouldn't speak to soon. Something tells me that, with his jaw removed, he could have one sicknasty pouch.
I like smoking hookah. I have a cigarette with friends occasionally (yes, too often, but she's really cute). I bought dip the other day so I could peer pressure my friends into doing it with me.