Questions/Discussion
Mind 16 Mar 2008
***Special Note: Even though the starting date of the first quarter of competition was April 2nd, you can join at any time and your points will start accumulating from the date you register***
kclo4x 17 Mar 2008
Please list any questions you have about the Folding@Home prize here. Technical problems? Confused about the rules? How/when will the payments be sent out? How will the points be counted?
Ive had an account before i knew about the longevity meme team, so i don't really have a team, is it possible to change it?
seems like they would make it easy to log in and change things like that, but i cant figure it out.
dnamechanic 17 Mar 2008
Good question, kclo4x.Ive had an account before i knew about the longevity meme team, so i don't really have a team, is it possible to change it?
seems like they would make it easy to log in and change things like that, but i cant figure it out.
This question has been discussed fairly often at Stanford's Folding Forums. Also, there is a bit of info at the official Folding@home Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). Turns out that there is no provision for changing user names or teams while retaining your accumulated points. You can probably imagine the bookkeeping and other difficulties that could arise for the Stanford group if such a practice was allowed.
Probably, the best thing to do is when your current work unit(s) are completed; stop the F@H client and sign up again, this time with team 32461. You may change your user name, or not. You will not lose your previous points, they will remain on record with your previous team and/or username.
As far as the Prize goes, you will not lose any points that might have counted toward it, since points for the prize count only from the beginning April 2, or whenever you register for it (if registering after April 2).
Edited by dnamechanic, 17 March 2008 - 11:35 PM.
dnamechanic 18 Mar 2008
Note how the moderators took out the references and links
Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.
maestro949 18 Mar 2008
Looks like the public discussion has begun. I copied this from the Stanford Folding Forums.
Note how the moderators took out the references and links
Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.
Let the tournament begin
Live Forever 18 Mar 2008
Sweet! I had thought originally that those forums would be a good place to promote it. Perhaps if we just mentioned the Immortality Institute or something, people could google for the competition.Looks like the public discussion has begun. I copied this from the Stanford Folding Forums.
Note how the moderators took out the references and links
Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.
Mind 18 Mar 2008
Well, at least we are close to the launch. Not too much carnage yet.
Just need to get the splash page up. I should have the text of it done by the end of today.
dnamechanic 26 Mar 2008
Of course I cannot speak for Mind, he may wish to formally announce it to many of the sites.When can we start advertising for it?
According to reference here, I think we can post announcement messages to selected sites, with links to the Splash page.
It is only about a week until competition begins, The Longevity Meme announced the prize today, also Fight Aging announced it a few days ago.
I posted an announcement message at a couple of places.
Edited by dnamechanic, 26 March 2008 - 02:34 AM.
Live Forever 31 Mar 2008
dnamechanic 01 Apr 2008
Yes, that would be good.Question: Will there be periodic updates to tell who is in the lead (top 5 or 10 or something)? Once a month or bi-monthly or something by those who are tracking it might be interesting.
A rough guide to the competitors can be found at Extreme Overclocking in the list of the top 20 contributors. A listing of accumulated points would be especially good for contestants that are very close.
Stanford provides folding points updates approximately every 3 hours, this is how EOC gets their data. Maestro949 said he would look into this. Presumably the data for The Longevity Meme could be automatically extracted and formatted by an Excel-like application and then posted here or updated to a F@H Prize page.
A special F@H Prize page with registered competitors current scores (updated just like EOCs) would be very desirable.
Until that happens, I could provide such a chart manually for a while, that is unless someone else wants to give it a try.
Edited by dnamechanic, 01 April 2008 - 12:14 AM.
Shoe 01 Apr 2008
dnamechanic 01 Apr 2008
When your (or anyone's) first work unit is completed your (their) username will appear here....so I don't know if I contributed.
And, now your name has been listed, I will post an acknowledgement of your contribution in this thread.
(edited by Matthias: yes, done)
Edited by Matthias, 01 April 2008 - 07:17 PM.
icyT 06 Apr 2008
I think there is probably some kind of limit to how fast any computer could process a work unit right? Meaning if we could somehow get the program running twice, we could do more work or something?
An option is keeping the computer on 24/7, but this might overheat my room now that the weather is warming up. Stupid computers have to be so high-grade now to run Vista, what a waste. Sometimes I have to shut down explorer.exe when IE locks up just to save data on whatever websites I'm visiting.
Edited by Tyciol, 06 April 2008 - 08:52 PM.
dnamechanic 06 Apr 2008
Thanks Tyciol, it's good that you are interested the F@H Prize and and already contributing to another effort...., or does Stanford only allow 1 account per computer/person?
You can have many accounts at F@H Stanford.
You may change your team name, or your username, or both.
Your current contributions will remain on record with your existing team and username. You can always go back and see your accomplishments. And, if you desire you can return to the original team and username and resume contribution there.
No problem.Because if you leave your group I think it erases records of your contributions plus I really like CC. I wouldn't mind leaving them for a month and then returning when this is over to get a shot at the money though, lol.
You will not lose. Stanford does not erase, the points and work units remains on your team and username record.
The prize is awarded for three months effort. Points are accumulated for the entire three months. You will be competing against contributors that will run for the entire 3 months. More time yields more accumulated points.
Working a work unit takes all the capability your CPU has, except when you interrupt it with something you want to do.I think there is probably some kind of limit to how fast any computer could process a work unit right?
If setup properly, you can have two clients running simultaneously. But...Meaning if we could somehow get the program running twice, we could do more work or something?
- If your computer has a regular single core CPU, then each client will get 50% of the processor capability. So the progress on each one will be halved, or maybe slightly less than halved. multitasking not completely efficient. Unless...
- If you have a P4 with hyperthreading (not all P4s have hyperthreading), then you can gain a bit of processor efficiency running two clients (maybe 15-20% over running a single thread).
- Or, if you have a dual-core computer or a quad-core computer then, one thread (client) per core is quite good. But if you have multicore, the SMP folding is the way to go. (Questions? bring up in Productivity & Perfornmance thread).
Yes 24/7 gets most points.. and most heatAn option is keeping the computer on 24/7, but this might overheat my room now that the weather is warming up. ...
Live Forever 07 Apr 2008
dnamechanic 07 Apr 2008
Very good point, thanks for reminding us.Step 1 on the announcement page should probably be clear that you can use your PS3 as well.
To emphasize the contribution that PS3s are capable of; here is a production history chart of a new contributor to the Longevity Meme team "buzcut".
Buzcut started less than a week ago and is evidently running three PS3s. He has risen to among the top contributors in points-per-day (PPD).
Current PPD is listed as 2,589 PPD, with less than a full-weeks folding time. The PPD listed is a 7-day running average. Looks like buzcut's average PPD will settle in around 3,000 PPD (see graph).
Buzcut is buzzing through 125 point work units (WUs) at approximately three per each Stats update (every three hours). That is ~one WU per hour! See the table at the bottom.
Buzcut has not registered for the F@H Prize .
Edited by dnamechanic, 07 April 2008 - 06:34 PM.
thughes 22 Apr 2008
- Mey
dnamechanic 22 Apr 2008
Hi Mey,Does the point counter lag significantly? April 12th I was 1,209 (thughes). I'm still 1,209 and several work units have been completed since then.
Your question is a important one. It is good that you check the progress and the postings.
Since the F@H Prize Progress Display is non-automated there is a good chance of human error.
Looking at your starting points (thughes), when the prize began on April 2, you had accumulated 3,422 points. Yesterday, according to Stanford Stats your score was 4,631. Participating contributor’s points for the F@H Prize are based on points accumulated since the prize started or since registering, if registering later than the starting time.
Your points reported yesterday in the F@H Progress display of 1,209 is equal to the difference between your starting score and yesterday’s score:
4,631-3,422=1,209
You are correct that you have completed work units since April 12. EOC Stats show four work units completed. All four have been reported since yesterday's F@H Prize Display update.Occasionally, maybe let's say once a year, Stanford Stats does lose a work unit or maybe two for an individual with high productivity, never many. These losses may be caused by many things, likely communications related (software or hardware). Sometimes the losses are recovered later, and in a seemingly mysterious manner one has extra credit. Considering all the data that the Stanford F@H handles, it seems that they do quite well.
Your score today at Stanford Stats currently is 5,000, which means your reported score in the F@H Prize Progress display will be increased.
Your question about
Stanford tries to update points every two hours, normally starting at the top of the hour, for me it is even-numbered hour (CDT). During the update process, Stanford's site is unavailable for approximately 45 minutes."the point counter lag significantly?"
At the Stanford site, there can be a lag of about two hours or maybe more, depending on timing of completed work unit relative to Stanford's schedule.
Extreme Overclocking reports stats every three hours beginning at the top of the hour: (times CDT) 12, 3, 6, 9 etc. It may take EOC 45 minutes to complete their update, though they are bringing new hardware online to speed this process. So, EOC stats lag behind Stanfords by a few hours.
The F@H Progress Display is based only on Stanford stats. The display has the date & time stamp in the title. The time corresponds to when Stanford began updating their stats that was used in the display, at the top of the hour.
Thank you thughes for your good work.
Edited by dnamechanic, 22 April 2008 - 08:17 PM.
dnamechanic 23 Apr 2008
Early Unit End (EUEs)
In the data from thughes work shown above in the previous post, there were four work units reported fairly close in time on April 21.One, or maybe two, of these work units could represent cases of Early Unit Ends (EUEs), a term used to describe work units that do not finish folding or self-terminate prematurely. The most often cause of EUEs is a glitch in the processing computer, either hardware or software related. When this happens, the work unit data becomes corrupted and error-detecting mechanisms may terminate the work unit. If a terminated work unit had progressed and enough data survives to indicate how much progress was made, the Stanford awards partial credit for EUEs.
The reason an occurrence of EUE is suspected in the data above is that there are no work units listed in the Stanford Projects list with a point value less than 15 points. The EOC table above shows one work unit reported at 9PM with a value of seven points. This could indicate the work unit terminated early and Stanford credited it with partial credit of seven points.
Also, there were two work units reported at 6 PM with a total point value of 347 points. If thughes were folding with one computer, which I think is the case, then completing two work units in that time period is unlikely. If the first one of the work units were 332 points and the second 15 points, it could happen. But, there are no 332-point value work units listed and I don't recall seeing any. A more likely scenario is that a work unit of 343 points (a usual value) was completed, and a second work unit started but EUE'ed, with a credit of 4 points awarded.
.
The F@H software on a contributor's computer records progress as the work unit proceeds in a file called, 'FAHlog.txt'. This text file is located in the Windows Folder that contains the F@H client. One can examine the contents of the log and see when a EUE has occurred. An example shown below at the end of a FAHlog.txt shows the work unit completing 36% then 37%, and after that an error occurred:
[05:07:15] Completed 45000 out of 125000 steps (36)
[05:12:16] Timered checkpoint triggered.
[05:17:17] Timered checkpoint triggered.
[05:18:36] Writing local files
[05:18:36] Completed 46250 out of 125000 steps (37)
[05:21:51] CoreStatus = 1 (1)
[05:21:51] Client-core communications error: ERROR 0x1
[05:21:51] Deleting current work unit & continuing...
[05:22:11] Trying to send all finished work units
[05:22:11] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[05:22:11] - Preparing to get new work unit...
Edited by dnamechanic, 23 April 2008 - 12:44 AM.
sentinel 20 Jun 2008
Better late..
Sentinel
dnamechanic 20 Jun 2008
I've got quite a few PCs and servers I could throw this at (not exactly a Grid or Farm but a start) but before I sign up, is there an Imminst group that we can assign our "usership" to? (I tried to go in but it's got the "busy for 45" msg up)?
Sentinel
Hi Sentinel, thanks for your inquiry.
Stanford F@H Stats updates scores every two hours. During the upate (approx 45 minutes) the Stats site is unavailable.
There is a registration for the F@H Prize thread. If you register with your folding username, then you will be eligible for the F@H Prize, description, here.
Otherwise, just set up all your computers with the team number for The Longevity Meme (team number 32461).
Feel free to ask if something is unclear. Looking forward to seeing your Username in TLM F@H.
Mind 20 Jun 2008
sentinel 20 Jun 2008
Very nice to hear you are interested Sentinel. Momentum is building and your help is much appreciated. You can begin at any time. The first quarter competition ends at midnight June 30th, so unless you have 100 computers, you probably will not be in the running for 1st quarter prize money (but you can start now anyway) Your points for the 2nd quarter competition will start accumulating on July 1st.
Ha! 100 no, may 7 or 8.. I'm doing a lot of work with a couple of banks who are getting their grids up up to a pretty high standard for derivative portfolio risk calculations and the rate of progress is staggering, which is why this caught my eye. I'll get my act together by monday and get a few instances up and running, some are 24x7. I'm not really bothered about prizes, money etc Perhaps it could just be donated to Imminst (or the artist formally known as Imminst depending on when you're reading this thread!)
Sentinel
Edited by sentinel, 20 June 2008 - 09:06 PM.
Mind 22 Jun 2008
Heliotrope 23 Jun 2008
by the way, my school has many computer labs with much more powerful computers than mine and they usually just sit there doing nothing esp during the summer. I'm here taking summer classes and working jobs so is there a way I can hook those to F@H? I wouldn't want to get into trouble with tampering school machines and i think some of them are programmed to restart and clear out temp files every so often
Edited by HYP86, 23 June 2008 - 01:06 AM.
dnamechanic 23 Jun 2008
Thanks for your interest in F@H.I don't care much for the prize money (only $150 even if 1st prize , amongst all Longevity Meme teammates or what?)
Currently the first prize of the F@H Prize is $150. This prize goes to the top registered folder (based on contributed points) with The Longevity Meme team. Looks like this will be Maciek_Kolodziejczyk, see here.
There are 12 prizes to be awarded, each prize goes to an individual contributor based on the accumulated number of points.
Prize money will be distributed to the top twelve competitors, excluding members TMichael and Maestro949 (organizers of the prize), on the Longevity Meme team with the following amounts awarded:
$150 1st
$100 2nd
$50 3rd
$25 4th
$10 5th thru 12th
...but I'd like to help w/ the research. i've only got a 4 year-old laptop. it's not that good, even spontaneously restarts sometimes (will exchange for a new soon). How much can i contribute anyway?
Laptop computers can be good contributors. They are more efficient (less electricity power) than desktop computers.
...I'd like to know the technical details since i'm not very good w/ computers.
Probably the best way to get a feel for what is going on is to downoad a client and start it folding. Performing the mathematical computations to simulate protein folding is very intense for the CPU in a computer. A computer only folds (processes) when it is powered on, so if your laptop is running on battery very much you may not be able to fullly utilize it.
The Longevity Meme has a brief description and setup instructions, here.
When you connect to the Stanford site, based on your hardware and operating system, it will recommend a client for you to download. Just download the client and install and follow instructions. Choose your username well, because you cannot later transfer your contributions to a new name.
Spaces are not permitted in the username, if you use two names put and underscore between as a placeholder, like this:
John_Smith
Be sure to use the Longevity Meme team number (32461).
Once you start the client it will connect and download a work unit and begin processing. When the work unit is finished, the computer will attempt to connect to a Stanford server to send in the results. Once Stanford gets the results, after at most 2-3 hours, your username will first appear here. Later your username will appear at all the Stats sites, such as EOC and Kakao stats. While connected to the Stanford server, a new work unit will be downloaded to your computer and processing starts again, and so on.
...by the way, my school has many computer labs with much more powerful computers than mine and they usually just sit there doing nothing esp during the summer. I'm here taking summer classes and working jobs so is there a way I can hook those to F@H? I wouldn't want to get into trouble with tampering school machines and i think some of them are programmed to restart and clear out temp files every so often
It is best to get permission to use public computers.
If it is OK with the computer owners, there are some ways of doing this:
- Some determined contributors set up folding on a USB flash drive and fold when the computers are available.
- Also, one can download the client and install to a computer without administrative privileges. The client installs in a alternative location without registry entries. In most cases, this works just fine.
Probably it is best to just see how the folding works on your laptop and go from there.
Neurosail 23 Jun 2008
Heliotrope 02 Jul 2008
to keep it easy, i put my alias as HYP86, team 32461 , TLM team . looks like it's pretty slow though, estimating taking 3 days to finish one WU, i don't how much each WU is or how many Points (PPD) i get for that. the downloading and uploading of workorders won't take the forms of large files right? i read somewhere 5 MB sizes , so it's like the size of an mp3 song? I have an internet usage limit of 10 GB of down or uploadingper month
Edited by HYP86, 02 July 2008 - 09:00 AM.
Heliotrope 02 Jul 2008
i think i saw a formula somewhere : Points =110 * (WU completed per day) or something like that, forgot the exact one
before i installed F@H console, i checked my CPU usage, usually oscillates btw 10 to 40% of CPU usage now it hovers around 90%, sometimes using all 100% of my CPU. The computer's internal fan is working overtime too, dissipating heat faster. my laptop won't overheat and explode would it? Should I blow another desk or window fan on it (my room is pretty warm during daytime ,room temp in the 70s or near 80 degrees). The bottom of my laptop feels hot.
Edited by HYP86, 02 July 2008 - 10:43 AM.