9 replies to this topic

[happy]

Failed edit - see below

Edited by happy, 02 April 2008 - 06:16 AM.

[happy]

I'll be transferring as a junior to a competitive, prestigious university in the fall, my supplement regimen consists of taking a lot of supplements individually - just like the rest of you. However, I am contemplating simply taking two LEF products listed below. I like Ortho-Mind but it has some ingredients that some imminst members are weary about taking before 30 years old e.g Huperzine. Should I be concerned with any of the following ingredients in Cognitex or MEO? Or should I simply be concerned with cost associated with LEF products?

P.S I will also be taking 1600mg Piracetam daily, Provigil 25mg/2-3x weekly, and Deprenyl 1mg/2-3xweekly

Cognitex:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 3 softgels
Servings Per Container 30
Amount Per Serving

Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline (A-GPC) 600 mg
Phosphatidylserine 100 mg [SharpPS Gold™ Conjugated Phosphatidylserine-DHA (std. to 45% PS and 8% DHA) and phosphatidylserine]
Pregnenolone 50 mg
Vinpocetine 20 mg
Phosphatidylcholine-Grape Seed Extract 150 mg [Contains 50 mg of Leucoselect® Phytosome™ grape seed extract (95% polyphenols) bound to 100 mg of phosphatidylcholine from soy]
VitaBlue® Wild Blueberry (Vaccinium angustifolium) 150 mg 130:1 Extract (fruit) [std. to 14% Total Phenolics (21 mg), 4.9% Total Anthocyanins (7.35 mg), 660 ppm Pterostilbene (0.1 mg)]
Sensoril® Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) Extract 125 mg (root and leaves) [standardized to 8% withanolide glycoside conjugates (10 mg) and 32% oligosaccharides (40 mg)]
Uridine-5'-Monophosphate (disodium) 50 mg
Proprietary NeuroProtection Complex Blend 125 mg
Perluxan™ Hops Extract (Humulus lupulus)(standardized to 30% alpha and iso-alpha acids)
Ginger (Zingiber officinale) Extract (root)(std. to 5% gingerols)
Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) Extract (leaves) (standardized to 20% diterpenic compounds)

Mito Energy Optimizer:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 4 capsules
Servings Per Container 30
Amount Per Serving
Thiamin (vitamin B1) (as thiamine HCl) 50 mg
Acetyl-l-carnitine hydrochloride 750 mg
Acetyl-l-carnitine arginate dihydrochloride 750 mg
Carnosine 1000 mg
SODzyme Proprietary Phytoenzyme Blend (Glycine max, zea mays, wheat sprout concentrate) 300 mg
Benfotiamine 150 mg
Luteolin [from Perilla leaf extract (Perilla frutescens)] 8 mg
R-lipoic acid (as potassium-R-lipoate) 150 mg
Rhodiola rosea root extract [standardized for 3% Rosavins (4.5 mg) and 1% Salidrosides (1.5 mg)] 150 mg
Other ingredients: magnesium stearate, gelatin and water.

Edited by happy, 02 April 2008 - 06:15 AM.

[zoolander]

Combined, they are a powerful combo in my opinion.

If you are concerned about cost I would personally go with the following (per day):
CDP-choline (cheaper than AGP) 250mg
Vinpocetine 20-40mg
Acetyl-L-Carnitine (bulk powder) 1.5g
D,L-Phenylalanine (bulk powder) 1-1.5g
R-lipoic acid 150-300mg
Rhodiola 250-500mg

Stack the above with

1600mg Piracetam daily, Provigil 25mg/2-3x weekly, and Deprenyl 1mg/2-3xweekly

and you should be firing on all cylinders.

Other possible add-ons:
100% raw Cacao powder with breakfast 10-15g
Huperzine A 100-200mcg, or
Galantamine 4-8mg (expensive AChEI option)

Other considerations:
Melatonin 0.5-5.0mg (to maximise sleep)
High quality protein source


Consider multivitamin and fish oil ( if not already taking) to cover basics

[balance]

Try this product:

AOR Citicoline. It's cheaper than cognitex.

I personally take the mitochondrial energy optimizer for quite a while now, I have taken the cognitex 3 times but did not notice any improvement. Since you're young I don't think the cognitex will help you get the desired results, and it's expensive too..

You can try taking a 'high' dose blueberry supplement. I sometimes take 4 capsules of the life extension blueberry pomegranate cocoa. Blueberry is said to boost memory. You might wanna try some high quality pharmaceutical grade Tryptophan. Life extension has made 2 new ones, one that's optimized, and the other that has co factors like l-lysine. If you decide to try it, I'd give the co-factor tryptophan a chance.

The mitochondrial is great too, yet I don't use it for memory, and it also hasn't given me any noticeable memory boost. Fish oil might do the trick for you. Try some DMAE. You're most likely too young to notice something from Ginkgo either. I would stay away from chronic huperzine A intake at any age.

Some people have noticed some good memory results by taking green tea, and life extension's natural stress relief (l-theanine/lemon balm) products. Also, I know a few guys who swear by high dose folic acid as a memory and mood enhancer. With high dose I mean really high.. like at the time when the Life extension powder was still pure 1% rather than the 0.01 I think it is currently. I can't comment on the exact dose, but I would assume it's somewhere between at least 5mg and 30mg. This however is a huge dose, and you certainly wanna check with your doctor before/during/after use, also before you start that, make sure you are taking 5mg of methylcobalamin for a while, and some other sources of B12 as to rule out the deficiency.

[happy]

Thanks for your replies Zoo / piet3r,

I think what I may do is definately buy Mito, but instead of buying Cognitex I'll save and invest by doubling the dose of LEF's Blueberry|Cocoa supp., and buy Jarrow's CDP-Choline to stack with Piracetam.

A few questions:

What are the benefits / side effect of taking / combining the following:

D,L-Phenylalanine
Galantamine
DMAE
Tryptophan
Citicoline

I looked for AOR's Citicoline on Relentlessimprovement but couldn't find it :[

By the way, this nootropic stack is in addition to my "core" regimen - an amalgamation of Zoolander's/Duke's and others - so I am already taking 2g/daily of LEF's fish oil, 300 mcg melatonin, 1mg sublingual b12 daily, and Nutiva's Raw Cacao Powder (But I'm afraid of taking this with Deprenyl :/)

[stephen_b]

D,L-Phenylalanine
Galantamine
DMAE
Tryptophan
Citicoline

I've really grown to love tryptophan. I take 500-1000 mg before sleeping. I think I've gone through my life so far with low serotonin. After taking tryptophan for a few weeks, I feel more emotionally on an even keel, with higher self esteem, lower anxiety, have greater reserves when stress comes, and less over-focus. It doesn't mix well with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), I've read.

I was much more likely to waste time surfing the internet (which is OCD-type behavior) when I should have been sleeping, for example, before I started taking it.

Stephen

[happy]

Stephen,



Would it be preferable to use 5-HTP?

Cost comparison via iherb:

Now Foods, 5-HTP, 50 mg, 90 Capsules
$10.06

Now Foods, L-Tryptophan, 500 mg, 120 Vcaps
$21.26

Edited by happy, 02 April 2008 - 10:58 PM.

[stephen_b]

Previous thread here:

I'd rather supplement tryptophan because it gives the body the raw material and then the body decides what to do with it. 5-HTP seems to bypass the feedback control mechanism in place, which rubs me the wrong way. Also, it seems safer.

I see in wikipedia:

For instance, elevated blood serotonin levels are associated with cardiac valve failure and acute or chronic pulmonary hypertension.

Whereas from here, "FDA does recognize L-tryptophan as a GRAS (generally recognized as safe) substance".

Stephen

Edited by stephen_b, 02 April 2008 - 11:20 PM.

[zoolander]

Piet3r,

I've heard people recommend against chronic huperzine A supplementation but do not know the source of this information. Do you know?

It doesn't mix well with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), I've read.

At low dosages such as happy's there is no concern. Inhibition of MAO A is what you should be concerned and deprenyl is a MAOI A only at large® dosages.

....Nutiva's Raw Cacao Powder (But I'm afraid of taking this with Deprenyl :/)

Yes this is something you should be cautious about. It's the Phenethylamine (PEA) that's the worry. PEA is broken down by MAO B and with deprenyl will potentiate it's effects. Be careful. Use a blood pressure monitor to watch for any changes because this is where they will show up

[happy]

I think I may drop Deprenyl entirely for a few years - until I'm 25-30 - so that I won't have to worry about any irreversible and/or long-term effects. The low-dose I've been taking isn't an issue in regards to dietary restrictions, the irreversibility of selegiline as a MAO-B inhibitor, is what makes me nervous. I think this is why I'm comfortable with Provigil & Piracetam at my age - long-term studies exist - and uncertain about Deprenyl on my cognitive state in the long run.