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300 MG Trans-Resveratrol Making My Joints Hurt


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#151 Turnbuckle

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

Adverse reactions to supplements can be reported to the FDA online or by phone--

MedWatch Online Voluntary Reporting Form (3500)

The form did not work for me with Firefox, but worked with IE.

#152 maxwatt

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

WRT healing and when to take resveratrol:
The morning is probably the best time because of its effect on circadian rhythms. Probably healing, too. healing mostly occurs during sleep, and resveratrol has effectively exited your body within 8 to 10 hours.

It is probably a mistake to take it around workouts, but some weightlifters take it with workouts for its putative anti-aromatase activity, and claim it helps them gain. I cannot speak to that, and I don't know what else they stack it with.

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#153 kenj

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:50 PM

Yeah, well, I might start taking resv 300+mg again, and, as others have mentioned, increase a DHEA dose simultaneously.

Also, I want to investigate some copper supplementation. I know the resv-copper link is very weak, but I take alot of phenols, and who knows the synergy of all this.
As I said before resv is a weak placebo effect compared to pterostilbene; ptero absolutely kills my joints when I take it.
A bottle of pterostilbene should come with a wheelchair as an essential co-factor. Once upon a time I took pterostilbene after a heavy anaerobic workout; ohboooy, the day after it felt like mr. P. Tero broke my back during the night....
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#154 gizmobrain

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

I wonder if my recent increased consumption of blueberries has been the source of my gradually increasing hip pain. I had chalked it up to a tough week at work, now I'm starting to wonder.

It really seems like we should be able to get to the bottom of this. As soon as I manage to find a new job, I'll start researching/experimenting.

Lots of recommendations from way back:
http://www.longecity...trol-joint-pain

Has anyone tried myricetin + resveratrol?

Edited by zrbarnes, 10 September 2012 - 08:05 PM.


#155 hav

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:15 PM

At first, resveratrol alone had no effect on my long-standing arthritis pain in my knees. But I found that when resveratrol was teamed with either Quercetin or Luteolin, my arthritis pain subsided. My knees were pain free for almost 3 years on this combo. During the last year, adding D3 has helped prevent cramping I used to regularly experience in my right calf and hamstring. I recently ran out of bulk resveratrol and substituted polydatin and the knee joint pain returned within 3 weeks. Restocked resveratrol after 6 weeks of knee pain and it subsided again within 3 days. Won't be trying that again, if I can help it.

Howard

#156 nowayout

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:33 PM

If it were as much as 10 or even 5 percent of those taking it, I think the FDA would have noticed by now and taken action like they did with ephedra. Sirtris' testing of doses up to 5 grams in a fairly large sample for several months did not turn up joint pain as an effect, so I doubt it is common.


How large was the sample? In the pharmaceutical literature I believe a side effect is usually considered common if it occurs in at least 1% of patients. So if the sample size was, say, 100 people, there is still a large chance (36% to be more precise) that any given common side effect may have been overlooked.

#157 Lufega

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:45 PM

I tried this recipe of soaking golden raisins in whiskey for two weeks then went on to consume about 30 grapes. I developed that all familiar aromatase inhibition induced joint pain. Perhaps the alcohol made the resveratrol in the grapes more bioavailable? Shame too. They were tasty. Might try this with dried figs in wine. lol

#158 hav

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:03 PM

Both alcohol and sugar and known to aggravate arthritis. If it's the sugar/alcohol combo that triggered your joint pain, I would expect that substituting figs for raisins would cause an even stronger reaction. The resveratrol content in a few raisins or a little wine is probably too low to have any effect of its own but if you want to rule out resveratrol (and rule in sugar), suggest you repeat your experiment with figs and whiskey and not wine.

Fwiw, I occasionally take 500 mg to 1 gram of resveratrol dissolved in Bailey's and swirled around in my mouth and under my tongue and this has never triggering any joint pain for me. But only as a bonus addition to my regular resveratrol/luteolin dosages by capsule... suddenly I have an urge to confirm my own experience.

Howard

#159 geo12the

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

Could be relavent?

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2012 Oct 10. [Epub ahead of print]
Resveratrol supplementation influences bone properties in the tibia of hindlimb-suspended mature Fisher 344 × Brown Norway male rats.

Durbin SM, Jackson JR, Ryan MJ, Gigliotti JC, Alway SE, Tou JC.

Source

a Human Nutrition and Foods, Division of Animal and Nutritional Sciences, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV 26505, USA.

Abstract

The deleterious bone effects of mechanical unloading have been suggested to be due to oxidative stress and (or) inflammation. Resveratrol has both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties; therefore, the study's objective was to determine whether providing resveratrol in the low supplementation range for a short duration prevents bone loss during mechanical unloading. Mature (6 months old) Fischer 344 × Brown Norway male rats were hindlimb-suspended (HLS) or kept ambulatory for 14 days. Rats were provided either trans-resveratrol (RES; 12.5 mg/kg body mass per day) or deionized distilled water by oral gavage for 21 days (7 days prior to and during the 14 days of HLS). Bone mass was measured by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry. Bone microstructure was determined by microcomputed tomography. HLS of rats resulted in femur trabecular bone deterioration. Resveratrol supplementation did not attenuate trabecular bone deterioration in HLS rats. Unexpectedly, HLS-RES rats had the lowest tibial bone mineral content (P < 0.05), calcium content and lower cortical thickness (P < 0.05), and increased porosity compared with HLS/control rats. Plasma osteocalcin was also lower (P < 0.04) in HLS/resveratrol rats. There were no significant effects on plasma C-reactive protein, a marker of systemic inflammation, or total antioxidant capacity. However, HLS-RES rats showed a negative relationship (r(2) = 0.69, P = 0.02) between plasma osteocalcin and thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, a marker of lipid peroxidation. Based on the results, resveratrol supplementation of 6-month-old HLS male rats had no bone protective effects and possibly even detrimental bone effects.

#160 Turnbuckle

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:36 PM

Could be relavent?

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2012 Oct 10. [Epub ahead of print]
Resveratrol supplementation influences bone properties in the tibia of hindlimb-suspended mature Fisher 344 × Brown Norway male rats.



Torture, sounds like.

#161 niner

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

I don't know if it's relevant to the tendinitis that's been reported, but it does speak to a couple things. First of all, bone is complicated, and we don't know everything there is to know about it. (Weird fact: SSRI use carries a risk osteopenia. It was not seen in depressed people using non-SSRI antidepressants.) The second thing is that resveratrol has a lot of "off-target" effects, assuming that there is a target. We'll probably continue to learn of them for a long time.

#162 maxwatt

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

estrogen receptors in bone are known to be responsible for bone formation, and resveratrol does bind to, and block, some estrogen receptors.. A possible mechanism? But the effect seems to be weak enough that no suspended rats showed no effect.

Edited by maxwatt, 25 October 2012 - 05:28 PM.


#163 MachineGhostX

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

So after at least 5 years of taking 250mg of 50% resveratrol 5x a week, the clicking/popping in my neck, shoulders and hips is now too troubling to ignore. At one point, I had no cartilage at all left in my right jaw joint and had to wear a TMJ splint 24/7 for almost 2 years to regenerate it.

The main regime differences during that TMJ treatment and now is I no longer take a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM supplement, I added pterostilbene to my regime about a year ago and transdermal DHEA about 3 months ago. I've also taken beef protein isolate daily -- which is essentially a large quantity of gelatin/collagen -- for several years.

Needless to say, I will now stop taking both reseveratrol and pterostilbene. It was a nice fantasy while it lasted.

Edited by MachineGhostX, 10 November 2012 - 04:05 PM.


#164 zorba990

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

So after at least 5 years of taking 250mg of 50% resveratrol 5x a week, the clicking/popping in my neck, shoulders and hips is now too troubling to ignore. At one point, I had no cartilage at all left in my right jaw joint and had to wear a TMJ splint 24/7 for almost 2 years to regenerate it.

The main regime differences during that TMJ treatment and now is I no longer take a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM supplement, I added pterostilbene to my regime about a year ago and transdermal DHEA about 3 months ago. I've also taken beef protein isolate daily -- which is essentially a large quantity of gelatin/collagen -- for several years.

Needless to say, I will now stop taking both reseveratrol and pterostilbene. It was a nice fantasy while it lasted.


I'm amazed anyone can take that much high emodin res without being in the bathroom all day.

#165 Hebbeh

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

I took a gram of 50% resveratrol for years with absolutely no problems. I use a gram of 98% now...500mg oral with 500mg sublingual first thing in the morning.

#166 zorba990

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:50 PM

I took a gram of 50% resveratrol for years with absolutely no problems. I use a gram of 98% now...500mg oral with 500mg sublingual first thing in the morning.


I've taken up to 2 grams a day no problems but recently scaled back to about 500mg a day with 500mg curcumin homemade liposomal.

I wonder if, for some people, resveratrol is inducing fibromyalgia? I saw some info about possible us of Niacinamide a few hours away from resveratrol.

http://www.longecity...ts/#entry297228

http://www.suffering...inimide-and-me/

#167 maxwatt

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

The is reason to believe resveratrol might aggravate autoimmune conditions in some people. On the other hand there are many reports of it reducing arthritic problems and producing other benefits. YMMV. If I stop using it I get joint pain. If you do use it, listen to your body, titrate the dose and stop if there are problems. Adding more than one thing to your regime at a time is not a good idea, it confuses the issues. Suddenly adding large doses instead of building up the dose with a new (to you ) supplement is similarly foolish, And if you are unlucky enough to develop a painful condition one using a particular supplement, you will attribute the problem to the supplement even though it may only be coincidental.

#168 tintinet

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

A couple of weeks ago I stopped using micronized high purity trans-resveratrol (~300 mg/day) and also got a flu shot. Since then, I've noticed diffuse joint 'stiffness' and arthralgia. Not sure if it's the absence of resveratrol or the flu shot, but, until now, I've only very intermittently had any joint issues.

#169 niner

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

A couple of weeks ago I stopped using micronized high purity trans-resveratrol (~300 mg/day) and also got a flu shot. Since then, I've noticed diffuse joint 'stiffness' and arthralgia. Not sure if it's the absence of resveratrol or the flu shot, but, until now, I've only very intermittently had any joint issues.


Sorry to hear it. And the flu shot, which was thought to be a really good match, turned out to be not so hot I've heard. Anyway, I hope you don't get sick. You could try restarting the res for a little while to see if that helps. It could have been acting as an anti-inflammatory, or maybe the arthralgia is from the flu shot.

#170 tintinet

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

A couple of weeks ago I stopped using micronized high purity trans-resveratrol (~300 mg/day) and also got a flu shot. Since then, I've noticed diffuse joint 'stiffness' and arthralgia. Not sure if it's the absence of resveratrol or the flu shot, but, until now, I've only very intermittently had any joint issues.


Sorry to hear it. And the flu shot, which was thought to be a really good match, turned out to be not so hot I've heard. Anyway, I hope you don't get sick. You could try restarting the res for a little while to see if that helps. It could have been acting as an anti-inflammatory, or maybe the arthralgia is from the flu shot.



Thanks. I may start the resveratrol again, to see if it helps. The arthralgia is mild, and inhibits my movement only very slightly, but it's new to me and something I'd rather live without, if possible.

#171 d4shing

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

So after at least 5 years of taking 250mg of 50% resveratrol 5x a week, the clicking/popping in my neck, shoulders and hips is now too troubling to ignore. At one point, I had no cartilage at all left in my right jaw joint and had to wear a TMJ splint 24/7 for almost 2 years to regenerate it.

The main regime differences during that TMJ treatment and now is I no longer take a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM supplement, I added pterostilbene to my regime about a year ago and transdermal DHEA about 3 months ago. I've also taken beef protein isolate daily -- which is essentially a large quantity of gelatin/collagen -- for several years.

Needless to say, I will now stop taking both reseveratrol and pterostilbene. It was a nice fantasy while it lasted.


Similar story here; I was taking 500mg of 98% for several years. Seems like it worked okay for me for a while; helped keep weight down, energy up, fewer colds/never a flu, etc. Hips and elbows started popping with noticeable frequency about six months or so ago, and then my back started acting up again so I dropped it. Hips and elbows no longer popping. Back is still a bit crappy but not much to be done about that, I'm afraid. I also noticed that my skin got more oily; it was always dry while on resv. Once or twice I've popped a 500mg pill since i've been off and it's amazing how quickly my skin reacts and gets really dry.

Will probably give 100mgs a try; hopefully it'll be a happy medium (and if not, that's a cheap enough dose that I can just pitch the bottle and not feel like I'm throwing out 50 bucks).

#172 Heh

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:31 AM

Resveratrol is better when cycled, 5 days on, then 2 days off. The joint/healing/immune problems mentioned here can usually be dealt with by supplementing OptiZinc, Calcium, Vitamin D3, and MK-7.

Edited by Joel, 01 February 2013 - 01:39 AM.

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#173 maxwatt

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

Joel:

D3, yes, we've seen some evidence here, Zinc and possibly MK-7 are good for other reasons, but how have you reached this conclusion that they are good for joint pain associated with resveratrol use? And if you are using D3 and MK-7, might calcium supplementation be unnecessary or even detrimental?

#174 Heh

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:59 PM

You supplement MK-7 with D-3 to help ensure that calcium is put in the right place, versus in the soft tissue or the bloodstream. It is possible that there is no need to supplement calcium, but what's likelier is that the amount needed is lower. What's detrimental is the supplementation of D3 without the addition of MK-7 to help move the extra calcium absorbed (this happens with or without calcium supplementation) away from soft tissue and the bloodstream and to the right places.

I mention zinc as it's been reported to help combat Resveratrol's negative effect on healing speed. Resveratrol "uses up" copper, manganese, and zinc, and it's arguable if it uses enough to actually cause problems, but supplementing with Zinc seems to help alleviate the healing issue. And maybe manganese and copper.

Edited by Joel, 01 February 2013 - 11:07 PM.


#175 kenj

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

You supplement MK-7 with D-3 to help ensure that calcium is put in the right place, versus in the soft tissue or the bloodstream. It is possible that there is no need to supplement calcium, but what's likelier is that the amount needed is lower. What's detrimental is the supplementation of D3 without the addition of MK-7 to help move the extra calcium absorbed (this happens with or without calcium supplementation) away from soft tissue and the bloodstream and to the right places.

I mention zinc as it's been reported to help combat Resveratrol's negative effect on healing speed. Resveratrol "uses up" copper, manganese, and zinc, and it's arguable if it uses enough to actually cause problems, but supplementing with Zinc seems to help alleviate the healing issue. And maybe manganese and copper.


IME, these minerals and vitamins made no difference to my joint issues with resveratrol. I've taken them all (and still do) for years and I've experimented with resv since IIRC 2007, and high doses of resveratrol doesn't work for my body. YMMV.

#176 Heh

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:18 PM

You supplement MK-7 with D-3 to help ensure that calcium is put in the right place, versus in the soft tissue or the bloodstream. It is possible that there is no need to supplement calcium, but what's likelier is that the amount needed is lower. What's detrimental is the supplementation of D3 without the addition of MK-7 to help move the extra calcium absorbed (this happens with or without calcium supplementation) away from soft tissue and the bloodstream and to the right places.

I mention zinc as it's been reported to help combat Resveratrol's negative effect on healing speed. Resveratrol "uses up" copper, manganese, and zinc, and it's arguable if it uses enough to actually cause problems, but supplementing with Zinc seems to help alleviate the healing issue. And maybe manganese and copper.


IME, these minerals and vitamins made no difference to my joint issues with resveratrol. I've taken them all (and still do) for years and I've experimented with resv since IIRC 2007, and high doses of resveratrol doesn't work for my body. YMMV.

And vitamin D-3 as well? Were you deficient in anything else?

I've never experienced any problems with Resveratrol, and until it "magically" stopped working it was my miracle supplement, so yes, YMMV.

Edited by Joel, 02 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#177 Turnbuckle

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

I mention zinc as it's been reported to help combat Resveratrol's negative effect on healing speed. Resveratrol "uses up" copper, manganese, and zinc, and it's arguable if it uses enough to actually cause problems, but supplementing with Zinc seems to help alleviate the healing issue. And maybe manganese and copper.

Minerals and D3 didn't help me, nor was resveratrol doing anything for me that I could tell. So taking it to begin with was just a matter of faith, and a mistake.

#178 xEva

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

I don't take RSV regularly but only when I go into a fast. Recently took 250-500 mg of Antony's trans-resveratrol for a few days on a row, while stilll not fasting, and developed a pain in my knee (I have very healthy knees). My impression was that the pain was due to mechanical mishap which was caused entirely by synovial fluid in the joint being either too thin or insufficient in volume.

So I don't think it's bones or tendons. Even though tendons are involved in the mechanics of this. I googled around and found this: http://www.longecity...nt/#entry328645

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#179 Hebbeh

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

I reported the same in post 113 of this thread. At higher doses of resveratrol, I would experience knee issues and the issues would get worse with both increased resv intake and increased mileage of running. I didn't wish to discontinue the resv as it definitely increases my endurance and seems to have positive mood enhancing effects. Through trial and error, I determined also that it was suppression of estrogen. In athletic circles, it is common knowledge that taking PED that suppresses estrogen can lead to joint issues. Taking 50mg of DHEA which aromatases into estrogen was the ticket for me. And at 55, the DHEA probably wasn't a bad idea anyway.

From my experience, lack of estrogen due to resveratrol's potent aromatase inhibition. When I added 50mg of DHEA which readily aromatases into estrogen, all joint issues went away.



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