• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans


Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Poll of smoking


  • Please log in to reply
183 replies to this topic

Poll: Should cigarettes be banned? (145 member(s) have cast votes)

Should cigarette smoking be completely banned in your different countries?

  1. Yes (39 votes [26.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.71%

  2. No (54 votes [36.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.99%

  3. Only in public places (53 votes [36.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.30%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#151 eternaltraveler

  • Guest, Guardian
  • 6,471 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Silicon Valley, CA

Posted 21 April 2010 - 01:39 PM

My approach would be to keep cigarettes legal, ban them in public places so that you cant force your smoke on others, and tax them according the value of their externalities (ie if 1million packs are sold a year, and smoking costs 100million in healthcare costs to the government, then each pack would be taxed $100!).

People should be free to do what they want to their own bodies, but when market values do not represent the actual social cost of a good, tax should remedy this! I like to call this approach free-market socialism.


Another solution would be for the government to not pay for healthcare

#152 Lallante

  • Guest
  • 197 posts
  • 3

Posted 21 April 2010 - 01:48 PM

My approach would be to keep cigarettes legal, ban them in public places so that you cant force your smoke on others, and tax them according the value of their externalities (ie if 1million packs are sold a year, and smoking costs 100million in healthcare costs to the government, then each pack would be taxed $100!).

People should be free to do what they want to their own bodies, but when market values do not represent the actual social cost of a good, tax should remedy this! I like to call this approach free-market socialism.


Another solution would be for the government to not pay for healthcare


Or just kill all the smokers. I'll keep my free healthcare and no financial worries about getting sick thanks.

#153 eternaltraveler

  • Guest, Guardian
  • 6,471 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Silicon Valley, CA

Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:10 PM

My approach would be to keep cigarettes legal, ban them in public places so that you cant force your smoke on others, and tax them according the value of their externalities (ie if 1million packs are sold a year, and smoking costs 100million in healthcare costs to the government, then each pack would be taxed $100!).

People should be free to do what they want to their own bodies, but when market values do not represent the actual social cost of a good, tax should remedy this! I like to call this approach free-market socialism.


Another solution would be for the government to not pay for healthcare


Or just kill all the smokers. I'll keep my free healthcare and no financial worries about getting sick thanks.


If you are at all a productive person your healthcare is anything but free. Enjoy your false peace of mind.

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#154 Lallante

  • Guest
  • 197 posts
  • 3

Posted 21 April 2010 - 11:09 PM

My approach would be to keep cigarettes legal, ban them in public places so that you cant force your smoke on others, and tax them according the value of their externalities (ie if 1million packs are sold a year, and smoking costs 100million in healthcare costs to the government, then each pack would be taxed $100!).

People should be free to do what they want to their own bodies, but when market values do not represent the actual social cost of a good, tax should remedy this! I like to call this approach free-market socialism.


Another solution would be for the government to not pay for healthcare


Or just kill all the smokers. I'll keep my free healthcare and no financial worries about getting sick thanks.


If you are at all a productive person your healthcare is anything but free. Enjoy your false peace of mind.



There is no such thing as false peace of mind. I pay less, through taxes, than the average american does, through insurance. I also get a wider range of care with less difficulty and no stress.

#155 eternaltraveler

  • Guest, Guardian
  • 6,471 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Silicon Valley, CA

Posted 21 April 2010 - 11:28 PM

There is no such thing as false peace of mind.


very well. There is peace of mind however, when there is something real one has good reason to be worried about.

I pay less, through taxes, than the average american does, through insurance. I also get a wider range of care with less difficulty and no stress.


the US government pays for 56% of healthcare expenditure in america. We pay for both the taxes and the insurance.
The problem is both of them. There are no market forces at work in healthcare, and there is no government rationing. Everyone gets unlimited care regardless of cost.

Edited by eternaltraveler, 21 April 2010 - 11:31 PM.


#156 Lallante

  • Guest
  • 197 posts
  • 3

Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:57 AM

There is no such thing as false peace of mind.


very well. There is peace of mind however, when there is something real one has good reason to be worried about.

I pay less, through taxes, than the average american does, through insurance. I also get a wider range of care with less difficulty and no stress.


the US government pays for 56% of healthcare expenditure in america. We pay for both the taxes and the insurance.
The problem is both of them. There are no market forces at work in healthcare, and there is no government rationing. Everyone gets unlimited care regardless of cost.



Market forces are irrelevant where the end goal is not efficiency but public good.

In a truly efficient healthcare system, poor and very sick people are left to die.

#157 chris w

  • Guest
  • 740 posts
  • 261
  • Location:Cracow, Poland

Posted 22 April 2010 - 01:50 PM

Altough I realize the dangers of passive smoking, I can't help thinking that the recent anti - smoking regulations in EU are just a kind of smoke screen to hide and draw away the attention of the public from the incompetence of governments in handling more important issues.

In Poland we had a debate about that in last couple of months and I guess it will now be forbidden to smoke in your own car ( WTF ? ) and also NEAR bus and streetcar stops as well, which seems to me kind of ridiculous and more over counterproductive, because I know that people who smoke won't stop doing this in those places anyway, getting maybe a police ticket from time to time. Also I can see the dirty lobying of tobaco companies behind the scenes, because e - cigarrettes are as well to be banned due to, behold, "the lack of information concernig the long term effects on health of e - cigarrettes users". Well just f...k me if this isn't Phillip Morris fighting to keep the coins in the pocket. We have virtually thousends of studies showing the negative impact of smoking normal ones, yet none politician will ever even think for a second about trying to ban them from being sold, because there is to much money at stake here.

Edited by chris w, 22 April 2010 - 01:51 PM.


#158 Alex Libman

  • Guest
  • 566 posts
  • 0
  • Location:New Jersey, USA

Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:27 PM

Predictable Anarcho-Capitalist output for this thread:

(1) Abolish all governments.

(2) Let property owners decide whether smoking is allowed.

(3) Profit.

#159 bacopa

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:08 PM

upon further review I think smoking should become illegal, and that would stop the problem dead in its tracks. Along with this pharma companies should be working on medicines targeting nicotinic receptors and all the rest of the receptors and neurotransmitters that smoking utilizes.

I know they are doing this very thing with one company working on ways to stop the addiction in it's tracks by targeting these receptors.

No one should have to get to the point of extreme addiction with THE most addictive substance known to man many researchers, studies, and articles point out.

#160 Alex Libman

  • Guest
  • 566 posts
  • 0
  • Location:New Jersey, USA

Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:22 PM

upon further review I think smoking should become illegal, and that would stop the problem dead in its tracks.


Just like prohibition worked so well for alcohol in the 1920s, and the drug prohibition is working so wonderfully today? Posted Image

#161 bobdrake12

  • Guest
  • 1,423 posts
  • 40
  • Location:Los Angeles, California

Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:43 PM

upon further review I think smoking should become illegal, and that would stop the problem dead in its tracks.


Just like prohibition worked so well for alcohol in the 1920s, and the drug prohibition is working so wonderfully today? Posted Image


Organized crime profiteered off of alchol prohibition and is profiteering off of illegal drugs. Thus, if you profiteer off of organized crime, you would be for making smoking illegal.

I don't smoke and don't take drugs (legal or illegal) but am in favor of having both being legal.

#162 bacopa

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:55 PM

the point of making it illegal is for people with good intentions and who may be health conscious from not so easily picking up the habit. Obviously people already addicted might find ways to still obtain the stuff, and the organized crime thing is a whole other issue and should be addressed in a separate manner.

Bottom line is if stores couldn't sell it, it would not be so easy, and quite hard, for your average teenager to simply buy a pack cause he's bored and wants to see what it's like.

#163 bobdrake12

  • Guest
  • 1,423 posts
  • 40
  • Location:Los Angeles, California

Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:19 PM

the point of making it illegal is for people with good intentions and who may be health conscious from not so easily picking up the habit. Obviously people already addicted might find ways to still obtain the stuff, and the organized crime thing is a whole other issue and should be addressed in a separate manner.

Bottom line is if stores couldn't sell it, it would not be so easy, and quite hard, for your average teenager to simply buy a pack cause he's bored and wants to see what it's like.


I wish that were true, dfowler.

As well intentioned as our War on Drugs is, the bottom line is that are losing it:

http://www.cdc.gov/n...ats/druguse.htm

•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 8.0% (2007)
•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with marijuana use in the past month: 5.8% (2007)
•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any nonmedical use of a psychotherapeutic drug in the past month: 2.8% (2007)


http://en.wikipedia....egal_drug_trade

Violent crime

In the late 1990s in the United States, the FBI estimated that 5% of murders were drug-related. Hoover, after a crackdown by U.S. and Mexican authorities in the 2000s (part of tightened borders security in the wake of the September 11 attacks), border violence inside Mexico surged, with the Mexican government estimating that 90% of the killings are drug-related. Drug violence inside the U.S. increased as well, from kidnappings in Pheonix (over 500 in 2007) to the murder of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz in 2010.



Effects of Illegal Drug Trade on Societies

Most of the effects of the illegal drug trade are not unique to the drug trade—they are endemic and to be expected with any black market and should be expected to worsen with increased efforts to eliminate the market with no decrease in demand. The countries of drug production, which are usually developing countries, have been seen as the worst affected by global drug trade. The drugs are seen as a doorway to a better life; while in reality drugs produce long term consequences and problems in societies, such as health problems (spread of HIV/AIDS), and further socio-economic and political instability.

Even so, countries are still affected by problems stemming from drug trade. For example, Ecuador has allegedly absorbed up to 300,000 refugees from Colombia who are running from guerrillas, paramilitaries and drug lords, says Linda Helfrich. While some applied for asylum, others are still illegal, and the drugs that pass from Colombia through Ecuador to other parts of South America create economic and social problems.


Edited by bobdrake12, 08 May 2010 - 11:19 PM.


#164 Alex Libman

  • Guest
  • 566 posts
  • 0
  • Location:New Jersey, USA

Posted 09 May 2010 - 02:25 AM

Market forces are irrelevant where the end goal is not efficiency but public good.


There is no such thing as "public good" any more than there is Zeus or Allah.


In a truly efficient healthcare system, poor and very sick people are left to die.


The crickets have been chirping on your obligation to back your socialist hyperbole with facts for many weeks now...

Now here's reality - you know what the Soviet Union did when it had an outbreak of homeless handicapped WW2 veterans? It herded them onto an old barge and drowned it in the middle of a lake!

Edited by Alex Libman, 09 May 2010 - 02:25 AM.


#165 bacopa

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:10 AM

the point of making it illegal is for people with good intentions and who may be health conscious from not so easily picking up the habit. Obviously people already addicted might find ways to still obtain the stuff, and the organized crime thing is a whole other issue and should be addressed in a separate manner.

Bottom line is if stores couldn't sell it, it would not be so easy, and quite hard, for your average teenager to simply buy a pack cause he's bored and wants to see what it's like.


I wish that were true, dfowler.

As well intentioned as our War on Drugs is, the bottom line is that are losing it:

http://www.cdc.gov/n...ats/druguse.htm

•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 8.0% (2007)
•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with marijuana use in the past month: 5.8% (2007)
•Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any nonmedical use of a psychotherapeutic drug in the past month: 2.8% (2007)


http://en.wikipedia....egal_drug_trade

Violent crime

In the late 1990s in the United States, the FBI estimated that 5% of murders were drug-related. Hoover, after a crackdown by U.S. and Mexican authorities in the 2000s (part of tightened borders security in the wake of the September 11 attacks), border violence inside Mexico surged, with the Mexican government estimating that 90% of the killings are drug-related. Drug violence inside the U.S. increased as well, from kidnappings in Pheonix (over 500 in 2007) to the murder of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz in 2010.



Effects of Illegal Drug Trade on Societies

Most of the effects of the illegal drug trade are not unique to the drug trade—they are endemic and to be expected with any black market and should be expected to worsen with increased efforts to eliminate the market with no decrease in demand. The countries of drug production, which are usually developing countries, have been seen as the worst affected by global drug trade. The drugs are seen as a doorway to a better life; while in reality drugs produce long term consequences and problems in societies, such as health problems (spread of HIV/AIDS), and further socio-economic and political instability.

Even so, countries are still affected by problems stemming from drug trade. For example, Ecuador has allegedly absorbed up to 300,000 refugees from Colombia who are running from guerrillas, paramilitaries and drug lords, says Linda Helfrich. While some applied for asylum, others are still illegal, and the drugs that pass from Colombia through Ecuador to other parts of South America create economic and social problems.

sure, but you are talking about hardcore drugs. Tobacco products tend to appeal to the average consumer, like people who would never think of doing drugs. My point is if we made cigarettes, or other tobacco products illegal, it would drastically hinder your average person, not inclined to partake in more serious drugs...better put, you can't go into a gas station and buy a gram of cocaine. If you could we would live in a society of chronic use so extreme as to render it more of an epedimic than it is now. Tobacco products, although arguably the most addictive, don't fall into that same category, imho.

We would have a situation where the most extreme addicts would procure tobacco products at much lesser of a rate than we can now. This is simply due to the ease of which anyone can buy a pack of smokes, anywhere, and at anytime. Smokers don't have to know dealers to buy cigarettes. Yes we are dealing with a failing war on drugs, especially according to your data. But I think it would make a huge impact with my reasoning. People would obviously be dissuaded to start in the first place, and chronic smokers could much more easily quit if they didn't have the "luxary" of walking 40 feet to the local store.

as a quick edit, yes, many young people will experiment with all kinds of drugs, but mostly marijiuana, is the big one. Cigarettes go hand in hand with a culture that still romanticises it as being "cool." It wouldn't be so cool if it weren't so readily available. The availability factor is the mitigating factor in my argument. There is something about the esteemed "good time" that comes with the more hard core drugs, that I don't think applies to tobacco products, in that something like cigarettes is something "to do" as in buying a six pack of Bud. Less easy access would equate to drastic decline in tobacco sales.

Edited by dfowler, 09 May 2010 - 03:18 AM.


#166 bobdrake12

  • Guest
  • 1,423 posts
  • 40
  • Location:Los Angeles, California

Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:33 AM

sure, but you are talking about hardcore drugs. Tobacco products tend to appeal to the average consumer, like people who would never think of doing drugs. My point is if we made cigarettes, or other tobacco products illegal, it would drastically hinder your average person, not inclined to partake in more serious drugs...better put, you can't go into a gas station and buy a gram of cocaine. If you could we would live in a society of chronic use so extreme as to render it more of an epedimic than it is now. Tobacco products, although arguably the most addictive, don't fall into that same category, imho.

We would have a situation where the most extreme addicts would procure tobacco products at much lesser of a rate than we can now. This is simply due to the ease of which anyone can buy a pack of smokes, anywhere, and at anytime. Smokers don't have to know dealers to buy cigarettes. Yes we are dealing with a failing war on drugs, especially according to your data. But I think it would make a huge impact with my reasoning. People would obviously be dissuaded to start in the first place, and chronic smokers could much more easily quit if they didn't have the "luxary" of walking 40 feet to the local store.

as a quick edit, yes, many young people will experiment with all kinds of drugs, but mostly marijiuana, is the big one. Cigarettes go hand in hand with a culture that still romanticises it as being "cool." It wouldn't be so cool if it weren't so readily available. The availability factor is the mitigating factor in my argument. There is something about the esteemed "good time" that comes with the more hard core drugs, that I don't think applies to tobacco products, in that something like cigarettes is something "to do" as in buying a six pack of Bud. Less easy access would equate to drastic decline in tobacco sales.


Thanks for your response, dfowler.

Alcohol also appeals to the average consumer.

Can we learn some lessons from history?:

http://everything2.c...organized crime

In 1933 the twenty-first amendment came into effect, ending an era of prohibition. Prohibition was an absolute failure. Not only did it make criminals out of the common man and woman, it hurt the economy by legally cutting off trade of alcohol. Prices of alcohol rose, more people consumed alcohol, more alcohol was consumed per person, alcohol was often poisonous, and organized crime was able to find a market and thrive (Poholek). There were truly no pros to prohibition, it simply did not work.

On December 5, 1933 the twenty-first amendment was ratified. After prohibition, commercial alcohol production was slow to gain momentum, at least for hard liquor. The breweries did it fairly quickly. This is because when President Roosevelt took office he modified the rules of prohibition, allowing the sale of beer with an alcohol content of 3.2 percent. This is almost the level of today"s beer. Makers of hard liquor took a little longer to produce their products.

As mentioned earlier, organized crime was a direct result of prohibition. Toward the end of prohibition the gangsters realized they would soon be without a market. In 1931 what is now known as the Mafia cam into existence. 'About the time prohibition ended, a national 'Commission' was formed to coordinate gangland operations throughout the country, to arbitrate disputes between gangs, and at times to step in and set right a badly run local organization or to appoint a local leader' (Barry 79).

A modern day comparison must be made. Today, as during prohibition, many people feel that certain illicit substances should be legal. The arguments for this are clear and prohibition provides a great example. In fact all of the same arguments that applied for prohibition apply for the drug wars.

From the economic points of view if the drugs were legal prices would not be inflated and competition could drive them down. One would be able to go to a 'drug store', much like one goes to a liquor store. This would mean lower prices for the consumer and a legal business for the storeowner. Aside from offering greater choice to the individual it would help the state. Tax revenue from alcohol was seriously missed during the prohibition era. The tax money generated from any other drug would help with the national expenses.

It would also be healthier. As pointed out earlier alcohol was often mixed and cut with chemicals, sometimes with deadly effects. Deaths from alcohol increased during prohibition. Would deaths from other drugs decrease if they were legal? With prohibition as an example it would seem likely.

Crime would go down. Admittedly people would still be committing the same acts, but they would be legal. During prohibition the average person that wanted a drink became an outlaw. This just does not make sense. Not only did prohibition cause an increase in criminal behavior by normal people, it increased the state"s expense from prosecuting these people. Much money was wasted that could have gone to something so much better. Today, the same thing is occurring with the current drug prosecutions. People largely ignore these laws much like prohibition was ignored.


Edited by bobdrake12, 09 May 2010 - 03:38 AM.


#167 bacopa

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:41 AM

sure, but you are talking about hardcore drugs. Tobacco products tend to appeal to the average consumer, like people who would never think of doing drugs. My point is if we made cigarettes, or other tobacco products illegal, it would drastically hinder your average person, not inclined to partake in more serious drugs...better put, you can't go into a gas station and buy a gram of cocaine. If you could we would live in a society of chronic use so extreme as to render it more of an epedimic than it is now. Tobacco products, although arguably the most addictive, don't fall into that same category, imho.

We would have a situation where the most extreme addicts would procure tobacco products at much lesser of a rate than we can now. This is simply due to the ease of which anyone can buy a pack of smokes, anywhere, and at anytime. Smokers don't have to know dealers to buy cigarettes. Yes we are dealing with a failing war on drugs, especially according to your data. But I think it would make a huge impact with my reasoning. People would obviously be dissuaded to start in the first place, and chronic smokers could much more easily quit if they didn't have the "luxary" of walking 40 feet to the local store.

as a quick edit, yes, many young people will experiment with all kinds of drugs, but mostly marijiuana, is the big one. Cigarettes go hand in hand with a culture that still romanticises it as being "cool." It wouldn't be so cool if it weren't so readily available. The availability factor is the mitigating factor in my argument. There is something about the esteemed "good time" that comes with the more hard core drugs, that I don't think applies to tobacco products, in that something like cigarettes is something "to do" as in buying a six pack of Bud. Less easy access would equate to drastic decline in tobacco sales.


Thanks for your response, dfowler.

Alcohol also appeals to the average consumer.

Can we learn some lessons from history?:

http://everything2.c...organized crime

In 1933 the twenty-first amendment came into effect, ending an era of prohibition. Prohibition was an absolute failure. Not only did it make criminals out of the common man and woman, it hurt the economy by legally cutting off trade of alcohol. Prices of alcohol rose, more people consumed alcohol, more alcohol was consumed per person, alcohol was often poisonous, and organized crime was able to find a market and thrive (Poholek). There were truly no pros to prohibition, it simply did not work.
On December 5, 1933 the twenty-first amendment was ratified. After prohibition, commercial alcohol production was slow to gain momentum, at least for hard liquor. The breweries did it fairly quickly. This is because when President Roosevelt took office he modified the rules of prohibition, allowing the sale of beer with an alcohol content of 3.2 percent. This is almost the level of today"s beer. Makers of hard liquor took a little longer to produce their products.

As mentioned earlier, organized crime was a direct result of prohibition. Toward the end of prohibition the gangsters realized they would soon be without a market. In 1931 what is now known as the Mafia cam into existence. 'About the time prohibition ended, a national 'Commission' was formed to coordinate gangland operations throughout the country, to arbitrate disputes between gangs, and at times to step in and set right a badly run local organization or to appoint a local leader' (Barry 79).

A modern day comparison must be made. Today, as during prohibition, many people feel that certain illicit substances should be legal. The arguments for this are clear and prohibition provides a great example. In fact all of the same arguments that applied for prohibition apply for the drug wars.

From the economic points of view if the drugs were legal prices would not be inflated and competition could drive them down. One would be able to go to a 'drug store', much like one goes to a liquor store. This would mean lower prices for the consumer and a legal business for the storeowner. Aside from offering greater choice to the individual it would help the state. Tax revenue from alcohol was seriously missed during the prohibition era. The tax money generated from any other drug would help with the national expenses.

It would also be healthier. As pointed out earlier alcohol was often mixed and cut with chemicals, sometimes with deadly effects. Deaths from alcohol increased during prohibition. Would deaths from other drugs decrease if they were legal? With prohibition as an example it would seem likely.

Crime would go down. Admittedly people would still be committing the same acts, but they would be legal. During prohibition the average person that wanted a drink became an outlaw. This just does not make sense. Not only did prohibition cause an increase in criminal behavior by normal people, it increased the state"s expense from prosecuting these people. Much money was wasted that could have gone to something so much better. Today, the same thing is occurring with the current drug prosecutions. People largely ignore these laws much like prohibition was ignored.

I'm not convinced tobacco products fall into the same category as alcohol. Yes, like you said, both appeal to the average consumer, but once you're hooked on tobacco, you're hooked, and my idea would stop this from happening in the first place, whereas alcohol is instanatneous in the addictive category. Also, although smoking is still accepted as a cultural norm, alcohol has universally been accepted as far back as history will allow. People KNOW the dangers of smoking, and although alcohol comes with plenty of risk factors, people know, also, that in moderation it causes little harm, at least in healthy people. So although your arguments regarding the problems of prohibition are sound and reasonable, I don't think they necessarily would apply in the same way to tobacco. But you make a strong point.

#168 bobdrake12

  • Guest
  • 1,423 posts
  • 40
  • Location:Los Angeles, California

Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:50 AM

I'm not convinced tobacco products fall into the same category as alcohol. Yes, like you said, both appeal to the average consumer, but once you're hooked on tobacco, you're hooked, and my idea would stop this from happening in the first place, whereas alcohol is instanatneous in the addictive category. Also, although smoking is still accepted as a cultural norm, alcohol has universally been accepted as far back as history will allow. People KNOW the dangers of smoking, and although alcohol comes with plenty of risk factors, people know, also, that in moderation it causes little harm, at least in healthy people. So although your arguments regarding the problems of prohibition are sound and reasonable, I don't think they necessarily would apply in the same way to tobacco. But you make a strong point.


Thanks again for your response, dfowler.

Can you provide historical evidence for your claim regarding tobacco?

If so, it could be convincing.

I don't personally use tobacco, alcohol, or drugs (legal and illegal), but organized crime does bother me.

#169 bacopa

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:53 AM

I'm a bit buzzed from having a few with my sister so I'm not up for that kind of research, but as an active member on imminst obviously my claims warrant real empirical evidence for such claims...give me a day or two.

#170 Vgamer1

  • Guest, F@H
  • 763 posts
  • 39
  • Location:Los Angeles

Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:36 AM

The government should not legislate morality, imo.


Agreeing with the first reply of the thread :)

#171 revenant

  • Guest
  • 307 posts
  • 97
  • Location:Norfolk, VA
  • NO

Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:27 PM

I smoked for a long time and wish it had not been available to me. My friends and I could easily buy smokes from machines or over the counter from a young age. I do not think tobacco should be taxed and sold to people. That said, governments should not leagllelly preclude folks for smoking tobacco, but industrial production should be banned.

#172 maxwatt

  • Member, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,953 posts
  • 1,627
  • Location:New York

Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:21 AM

Smoking and possession of nicotine were banned in the Ottoman empire, and the penalty was death, which was applied, It did little to stop the practice of smoking, and the law was eventually rescinded.

I am told Sir Walter Raleigh rushed to see Queen Elizabeth and introduce her to tobacco on returning from Virginia, before the Archbishop of Canterbury got to her first to urge her to outlaw the weed.

#173 CuringTheSane

  • Guest
  • 43 posts
  • -28
  • Location:Washington D.C.

Posted 16 June 2010 - 11:29 PM

I voted yes before seeing the subtitle, which is the exact opposite of your title. Prohibition doesn't work, and if we are not free to do what we want to our own body, then what freedom does one really have in life? It's a lifestyle choice, like choosing what you eat, and what clothes you wear. Anyone who would disagree with that, are probably the very same people who say they're all for freedom of speech until someone says something they don't like, then it's time for a little evisceration! Off with the head!!

Edited by CuringTheSane, 16 June 2010 - 11:30 PM.


#174 distinct

  • Guest
  • 114 posts
  • 45
  • Location:Glastonbury, CT, USA

Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:42 AM

Shit... I accidentally voted "no", where I meant that YES, people should have a right to smoke.

To clarify quickly:

1) Outdoors: Those of you against smoking outdoors, grow up. You've got legs, use them. I do. Nothing more pathetic than an isolated smoker all alone in the rain.

2) Indoors (privately owned public space): Up to the proprietor, those who don't like it, go elsewhere.

3) Indoors (gov't owned public space): Nope.

4) Indoors (Private residence, etc.): Absolutely. If we want to kill ourselves, it leaves you super timid folks a lot more resources for the future.

Personally, smoking is disgusting. However, I have far greater concerns than this silly, self-destructive habit. I used to smoke, and it was a personal choice just as quitting was. Allowing me only to smoke in my imagination is ridiculous. There are far more harmful things surrounding you than "second hand smoke" IMHO.

#175 Solarclimax

  • Guest
  • 209 posts
  • -62

Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:32 PM

It's sad how many people voted yes to this pole. I thought imminst was 1 of those rare escapes in the world where i can get away from idiots for a while.
What should we ban next ? skydiving ? bmx riding ?
Ban in public places, of course this make sense because some people like me don't want to breath in smoke. But a total ban ? NWO anyone ?



The rules that govern us all with a few exceptions should be very simple. If what you are doing is not harming others then you have every right to carry on doing what you are doing. Of course the term harm has a lot of variables, like harm to 1 person could be non harm to another. But lets not get silly and weird about it.

Edited by Solarclimax, 17 June 2010 - 01:33 PM.


#176 Reno

  • Guest
  • 584 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Somewhere

Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:11 PM

If you make it illegal then it'll be the next drug for the mexicans to smuggle into.

Keep it legal and raise the price of it. The same should be done for pot, coke, and every other illegal drug.

#177 Solarclimax

  • Guest
  • 209 posts
  • -62

Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:16 AM

If you make it illegal then it'll be the next drug for the mexicans to smuggle into.

Keep it legal and raise the price of it. The same should be done for pot, coke, and every other illegal drug.


Some say the government have a lot to do with smuggling the drugs in the first place and make huge profit from it. And also making it illegal at the same time creates work for law enforcement not only that but it also allows the government to cash in twice through seizures of illegals. Plus it gives the government leverage to more easily assert their agendas through channels of fear that they create.
Just what I heard take it as you will.

#178 Reno

  • Guest
  • 584 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Somewhere

Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

\

Some say the government have a lot to do with smuggling the drugs in the first place and make huge profit from it. And also making it illegal at the same time creates work for law enforcement not only that but it also allows the government to cash in twice through seizures of illegals. Plus it gives the government leverage to more easily assert their agendas through channels of fear that they create.
Just what I heard take it as you will.


Sounds like someones been smoking the reefer. :rolleyes:

#179 The Immortalist

  • Guest
  • 1,462 posts
  • 323
  • Location:.

Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:13 PM

Smoking should be made illegal everywhere in the world. So should refined sugar, alcohol and tobacco. They are all evil.

#180 The Immortalist

  • Guest
  • 1,462 posts
  • 323
  • Location:.

Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:14 PM

Smoking should be made illegal everywhere in the world. So should refined sugar, alcohol, drugs and tobacco. They are all evil.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users