2 replies to this topic

[bacopa]

I was reading the post on my life as a Christian interested me because I used to think religious people were tainted with self absorption thinking that they were the children of God. I used to assume they were full of themelves, but now I think that there are amazing relgious people who have even more appreciation for life than the most passionate atheist. This has opened my mind to a world that is again more complex and interesting than I once thought. Furthermore I envy some aspects of religious behavior particularly the sense of self worth that many believers seem to have and it almost annoys me that being "right" and knowing the "truth" is not necassarily conducive to being any more or less together as a person than one would hope. I can't honestly say that just because I'm an atheist that things are clearer or better, anyway my computer's screwing up so I have to go your comments?

Edited by dfowler, 09 November 2003 - 04:05 AM.

[Utnapishtim]

The utility of a theistic vs an atheistic worldview is quite an interesting issue.

What I find interesting is that it often exposes a diametrically opposed approach to forming beliefs. Many religious people I have talked to seem to feel that beliefs are indeed a choice, much like which make of car they drive, how they get their hair cut, what career they will pursue. Many are quite specific about this, and feel that their faith is justified by the positive impact holding it has had on them.

A misunderstanding I find common among the religious in regards to atheism is that they assume that atheists have chosen their particular non-faith in exactly the same manner in whcih they have chosen their religious beliefs, namely on the basis of traditional family/community affiliations, aesthetic appeal, and their ability to make them happy. They often seem utterly ignorant that any other manner of arriving at beliefs exists in the first place.

Looked at from this perspective atheism is a dubious choice indeed. Its premise seems exceptionally bleak, it offers little emotional comfort, no moral guidance, no cementing of social ties or any of the other benefits ascribed to religion. Indeed from this perspective one can accuse the atheist in having exceptionally bad taste and judgment.

Of course it also utterly misses the point that for many atheism is not a choice at all but a conclusion arrived at on the basis of what they have come to understand of the world they live in. I didn't choose to be an atheist becasue I found it attractive or useful or moral, I am an atheist by virtue of involuntary conclusions. I couldn't stop being an atheist if I wanted to.

Many atheists are as ignorant about the manner in which the religious form their opinions as the other way around.

I was like this myself once

I would ask religious friends how the fact that going to church made them feel good in any way confirmed the parting of the Red Sea, the immaculate conception, divinely inspired plagues of locusts, burning bushes that talk, messianic water-walking abilities and the resurrection of Christ.

I thought of their religioin as a conclusion about the universe they had arrived at and was puzzled by how they had managed to get there.

They would regale me with stories of how Christianity/Budhism had helped through difficult times etc, and I would stubbornly keep returning to the question. 'Yes but is it true? Does it contain any objectively true information about the nature of existence'

To this day I beleive that most of them simply didn't understand the question. I also think I was making a mistake. For a long time I simply couldn't accept that for the majority of people opinions are chosen almost entirely on the basis of social conformity and/or aesthetic appeal.

I have slowly learnt to accept the fact that my basis for forming opinions is as alien to them as theirs is to me.

[bacopa]

Exactly. couldn't have said it better myself. It's almost a curse knowing the truth. And it is thouroughly irritating the questions and insecurity that arises not having that belief. Like the cool guy in high school, religion seems to offer people false comfort and security. And I often question, obsessively so, how "hard" I should personally try maybe because Atheism has changed my whole view on self importance and that "feel good" feeling that people so desparately want. Atheism causes us to question some obvious things. With religion learning something is always "enlightening", where as with atheist we realize that we are not so special in the sense that we are bu one form of creature amazingly able to think in quite complex ways. So I don't feel completely "enlightened" when I learn something new these days because I look at it as merely a piece of knowledge which has no conotive meaning to it.

But more so than this atheism has led me to think more objectively which is a positive. I can now look at the bigger picture and think more logically and less with "feelings." I wish people arrived at their beliefs logically as well this is too bad because it creates a stupid world of really dumb egotists. There are people out there who think they're so awesome because they are a certain way when in reality they are living a false lie.

I've met many intelligent religious people but they all seem to get hung up on their feel good value system or some other way of being that seems to always clash with an atheists view. For instance I have a friend who is very smart but is so obviously morally constrained by his religion. The flip side to this is that he is very moral, more so than me for instance. So it's a tricky thing religion because it's so obviously a lie to me yet smart people who are aware of seemingly many things seem to get sucked into it. my computers messed up so I can't type further

Edited by dfowler, 10 November 2003 - 02:31 PM.