Mr. Freeze
livelong 31 May 2008
http://www.forbes.co...8/0602/076.html
Forty-seven researchers are experimenting with Owada's technology to preserve human organs. A group at Tokyo University is freezing mouse hearts with a technology similar to Owada's. Another group at Keio University is preserving nerve fibers. Owada predicts that the first defrosted organ transplant could happen within a decade.
Toshitsugu Kawata, an associate professor of dentistry at Hiroshima University, is using Owada's system to run a commercial cryogenic tooth bank, with 1,600 teeth in stock. Under a tooth's hard enamel are softer layers with enough water in them to form harmful ice crystals when frozen. For $1,200 he'll keep your wisdom teeth safely on ice for 20 years. You can have them transplanted back for less than the cost of artificial implants. "It's like having a spare tire," he jokes.
forever freedom 31 May 2008
Live Forever 31 May 2008
Shannon Vyff 31 May 2008
bgwowk 31 May 2008
bgwowk 31 May 2008
I'm not sure in what sense you are using the word "trust" in a field that is still far from demonstrable success. Do you mean that you don't trust that vitrification is doing a good enough job of preserving enough information for cryonics to work? Do you just distrust vitrification as currently applied in cryonics, or distrust vitrification as a general approach? I think the former is prudent skepticism, but the latter would be hard to defend. The basic meaning of vitrification is cryopreservation without crystallization, which certainly seems to be a step in the right direction knowing all that we do about the damaging effects of ice in biological systems.I never trusted vitrification very much, but unfortunately it's our best current option.
Edited by bgwowk, 31 May 2008 - 06:48 AM.
Mind 31 May 2008
So far his privately held company, ABI, has sold 230 freezer systems to food processors, restaurants, hotels and hospitals in and outside Japan. Sales were $14 million last year.
If this is true, then it can't be a complete hoax. Somebody must have tested it and found it worthy of investment.
forever freedom 31 May 2008
I'm not sure in what sense you are using the word "trust" in a field that is still far from demonstrable success. Do you mean that you don't trust that vitrification is doing a good enough job of preserving enough information for cryonics to work? Do you just distrust vitrification as currently applied in cryonics, or distrust vitrification as a general approach? I think the former is prudent skepticism, but the latter would be hard to defend. The basic meaning of vitrification is cryopreservation without crystallization, which certainly seems to be a step in the right direction knowing all that we do about the damaging effects of ice in biological systems.I never trusted vitrification very much, but unfortunately it's our best current option.
Don't worry, it's the former
I understand the proccess and the principle behind vitrification and i'm aware that it's completely logical and indeed the best we can currently do. I just don't know if it preserves enough information about us to make it possible to bring us back to life in the future. But of course it beats the alternative of just plain freezing us and completely destroying us with the ice crystals.
VictorBjoerk 31 May 2008
eternaltraveler 31 May 2008
Just a question,maybe a little offtopic,ut why do they use liquid nitrogen instead of eg liquid hydrogen or helium when performing cryonics?
liquid nitrogen is cheap, and hydrogen explodes. Also forgeting that liquid helium is really expensive, it is too cold (read: more cracking, no additional benefit of the lower temp. in any practical sense).
Edited by elrond, 31 May 2008 - 05:46 PM.
VictorBjoerk 31 May 2008
VictorBjoerk 31 May 2008
bgwowk 01 Jun 2008
I wouldn't call something a hoax unless it is deliberate. I'm sure the company is completely sincere.So far his privately held company, ABI, has sold 230 freezer systems to food processors, restaurants, hotels and hospitals in and outside Japan. Sales were $14 million last year.
If this is true, then it can't be a complete hoax. Somebody must have tested it and found it worthy of investment.
Although there doesn't seem to be any scientific literature about this process, I read the two patents involved. I don't believe the physics argument of the first patent (use of magnetic fields to increase thermal conduction in water), but the second patent is more credible (use of microwaves to enhance supercooling). There is precedence in the scientific literature showing that microwave irradiation can enhance the ability of water to avoid freezing during cooling (supercool).
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9200821
The idea has been on the backburner of cryobiology because it is technically difficult. The company may have successfully adapted this idea to reduce ice crystal size in frozen foods by supercooling several degrees before freezing. However I am very skeptical that the method can achieve viable tissue cryopreservation without cryoprotectants because of the amount of ice that's going to form at low temperatures, size or morphology notwithstanding.
Edited by bgwowk, 01 June 2008 - 06:32 PM.
forever freedom 01 Jun 2008
The idea has been on the backburner of cryobiology because it is technically difficult. The company may have successfully adapted this idea to reduce ice crystal size in frozen foods by supercooling several degrees before freezing. However I am very skeptical that the method can achieve viable tissue cryopreservation without cryoprotectants because of the amount of ice that's going to form at low temperatures, size or morphology notwithstanding.
I think you're right, unfortunately.
livelong 08 Jun 2008
Although there doesn't seem to be any scientific literature about this process, I read the two patents involved. I don't believe the physics argument of the first patent (use of magnetic fields to increase thermal conduction in water), but the second patent is more credible (use of microwaves to enhance supercooling). There is precedence in the scientific literature showing that microwave irradiation can enhance the ability of water to avoid freezing during cooling (supercool).
Here's some more information about the process, with electron micrographs of material that's been through the process. It's called the Cells Alive System.
http://www.sakura.co...cas/feature.htm The website has quite a bit of information about it.
I'm not sure if the patent you're talking about is this same process or not. A portion of the caption below the electron micrograph reads, "The cell membranes are not destroyed because the water molecules are quickly frozen before they have a chance to move."
mathewsullivan 09 Jun 2008
The idea has been on the backburner of cryobiology because it is technically difficult. The company may have successfully adapted this idea to reduce ice crystal size in frozen foods by supercooling several degrees before freezing. However I am very skeptical that the method can achieve viable tissue cryopreservation without cryoprotectants because of the amount of ice that's going to form at low temperatures, size or morphology notwithstanding.
Do you have any thoughts on combining a magnetic field of significantly greater strength and cryoprotectants that are lower in toxicity?
bgwowk 10 Jun 2008
The idea has been on the backburner of cryobiology because it is technically difficult. The company may have successfully adapted this idea to reduce ice crystal size in frozen foods by supercooling several degrees before freezing. However I am very skeptical that the method can achieve viable tissue cryopreservation without cryoprotectants because of the amount of ice that's going to form at low temperatures, size or morphology notwithstanding.
Do you have any thoughts on combining a magnetic field of significantly greater strength and cryoprotectants that are lower in toxicity?
Static electric fields are known to trigger (nucleate) ice formation. If it has any effect at all, I would expect a static magnetic field to do the same thing. According to the reference I posted earlier, time-varying fields are more promising.
livelong 12 Jun 2008
Static electric fields are known to trigger (nucleate) ice formation. If it has any effect at all, I would expect a static magnetic field to do the same thing. According to the reference I posted earlier, time-varying fields are more promising.
Since the whole purpose of the Japanese device is to eliminate or greatly reduce ice crystal formation, which it apparently does quite well, it must not be a static field then.
bgwowk 12 Jun 2008
I agree. Actually, in the context of food freezing, the ice prevention happens only during the initial part of cooling. The technology is claimed to delay ice formation during cooling (i.e. promote supercooling) so that when water finally does freeze, it freezes quickly from the inside out. It still freezes. That's my understanding of their claims. It's hard to really understand what they are doing because they are engineers and they don't explain things the way that scientists would.Static electric fields are known to trigger (nucleate) ice formation. If it has any effect at all, I would expect a static magnetic field to do the same thing. According to the reference I posted earlier, time-varying fields are more promising.
Since the whole purpose of the Japanese device is to eliminate or greatly reduce ice crystal formation, which it apparently does quite well, it must not be a static field then.
Edited by bgwowk, 12 June 2008 - 05:57 AM.
Gary C 28 Jun 2008
Edited by Gary C, 28 June 2008 - 01:06 AM.
immorta 29 Mar 2009
Every couple of years there is a cryopreservation breakthrough claimed in the popular press that is either misrepresented or never heard about again. Better frozen food preservation is great, but without at least one journal article showing that this technology can preserve cell viability during freezing without cryoprotectants better than controls, it is impossible to comment on the claims.
Well look at that: http://www.japaninc.com/tt450 Their clame is clear -
"using CAS, Hiroshima University reckons that it can
increase the cell survival rate in teeth to a high of 83%.
This compares to 63% for liquid nitrogen (-196 degrees C),
45% for ultra-cold freezing (-80 degrees C), and just 21.5%
for a household freezer (-20 degrees C)."
In CryoFreedom.ru we're trying to build some Magnetic Freezing devices and test them. We've a small research group
testing magnetic and electric parameters on water and bio samples. We've found some others sources of proving information
that EM and others fields can modifyice formation process.
Do you know some people that can help us in some theoretical or practical point of so called "magnetic freezing"?
Edited by immorta, 29 March 2009 - 10:47 PM.
immorta 29 Mar 2009
Since the whole purpose of the Japanese device is to eliminate or greatly reduce ice crystal formation, which it apparently does quite well, it must not be a static field then.
The technology is claimed to delay ice formation during cooling (i.e. promote supercooling) so that when water finally does freeze, it freezes quickly from the inside out. It still freezes. That's my understanding of their claims. It's hard to really understand what they are doing because they are engineers and they don't explain things the way that scientists would.
There's a controversial information on this subject.
1) Fast ice formation after supercooling effect (The Tempereature during ice formation lowering slow) The 2nd is oposite
2) Fast temperature fall after some point of parameters (The Tempereature during ice formation lowering fast)
https://cryofreedom....ature_chart.JPG
The fastest way to proove the ability of CAS is to find CAS system somewhere and measure cell and tissue survival rate.
Devices found:
ABI, has sold 230 freezer systems to food processors, restaurants, hotels and hospitals in and outside Japan
47 researchers are experimenting with Owada's technology to preserve human organs.
Tokyo University is freezing mouse hearts with a technology similar to Owada's.
Another group at Keio University is preserving nerve fibers.
Hiroshima University
Taipei Medical University
CAS is already being used in Alaska to preserve milt and roe of cod
Suppliers of ingredients for French cuisine preserve the catch of shrimp fishermen in Sierra Leone Sierra Leone another of his projects helps tuna fishermen in the Philippine
http://www.teethbank.jp/ - works on cas
SAKURA FOOD Co. Viet-Nam
http://www.sakura.co...ishaboutus.html
Who can help us to find accessible CAS freezer to test cells and tissue samples ?
I'm in Moscow, Russia and i can't go to Japan or Viet-nam =(