19 replies to this topic

[mentatpsi]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24958591/

I'm not really sure what to make of her... but you know what i want? I want our leaders to be like scientists and demonstrate the truth of their campaign rather than diving into personal attacks at any chance ... anyways, what do you guys make of all this?

[forever freedom]

In a perfect world Obama could be the democratic presidential candidate and Hillary the vice president. I'm not really sure if that's possible.

[Mind]

I think she is sticking around because nothing is certain until the convention. The super-delegates could change their mind at the convention and elect Hillary as the nominee. She is probably just going to wait around to see if Obama falls on his face over the next month or so, then the super-delegates can switch their vote to Hillary at the convention and still have a good candidate.

[Cyberbrain]

I want our leaders to be like scientists and demonstrate the truth of their campaign rather than diving into personal attacks at any chance.

Exactly, a Secular Democratic Technocracy is the only government that will work perfectly

In a perfect world Obama could be the democratic presidential candidate and Hillary the vice president.

I hope so, otherwise Obama doesn't have a large chance of beating McCain alone ... especially if McCain takes Condoleezza Rice as his VP.

I think she is sticking around because nothing is certain until the convention.

She has too fat of an ego and is very self centered. If she cared, she would put her ego aside and unite with Obama to defeat McCain.

Let's not forget Republicans are one of our biggest enemies so we can only hope Hillary will unite with Obama.

[Mind]

Let's not forget Republicans are one of our biggest enemies

I don't think so. You are painting all Republicans with a broad brush. There are many Republicans that are pro-life extension, just as there are many Democrats who are pro-death/anti-immortality.

Despite all the left-wing hysteria that President Bush is ruining the country, the world, and probably the universe, and that he is Hitler, the devil, and dumbo all combined, nothing huge happened within the country that changed the fabric of society. It was the same when Clinton was President, the roles were just reversed. Republicans thought he was the worst President ever. He made some changes within the government, laws were passed, but it did not have a HUGE impact on society. Really, I wish people would not base their whole outlook on life and their happiness upon who is president. Important, yes, but not the center of life and the universe.

[Cyberbrain]

I don't think so. You are painting all Republicans with a broad brush. There are many Republicans that are pro-life extension, just as there are many Democrats who are pro-death/anti-immortality.

I wasn't basing my outlook of Republicans only on Bush. It's just that I have never personally heard of any Republican who is pro-choice or pro-longevity. I'm always open minded and if you have some examples of pro-life extension / pro-transhumanist Republicans, I would love to look into them.

And don't get me wrong. Democrats can be just as bad. On one side we have the religious right-wing bioluddite's and on the other we have the secular left-wing bioluddite's and then we also have the even more extreme ecoluddite's.

It's just that, I don't think America, and the scientific community at large, can afford another 4 years of a Bush type president, especially and even larger pro-war president.

*Also, I think the religious right-wing bioluddite's heavily outweigh the left-wing bioluddite's when it comes to regulating or banning scientific research ... I don't know, I just finished reading Citizen Cyborg so I'm still learning

Edited by Kostas, 04 June 2008 - 10:08 PM.

[Cyberbrain]

Despite all the left-wing hysteria that President Bush is ruining the country, the world, and probably the universe, and that he is Hitler, the devil, and dumbo all combined, nothing huge happened within the country that changed the fabric of society. It was the same when Clinton was President, the roles were just reversed. Republicans thought he was the worst President ever. He made some changes within the government, laws were passed, but it did not have a HUGE impact on society.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people will beg to differ

[Lazarus Long]

Back on topic...

Jimmy Carter advised Obama today not to consider Hillary for the job. He is among a number, some of which are her own advisers, that do not think she should take the job even if it is offered.

Hillary is an asset inside the Democratic party but not necessarily in the actual election.

I offered a few months back that Condie is on McCain's list but I think he is going to need to do more than nominate her to split the African-American Dem vote and Colin Powell is more likely if that is the logic. The Powell Doctrine has been vindicated by the debacle in Iraq and if his advice had been heeded we wouldn't be in the mess we are in and that would come out and help McCain distance himself from Bush.

Hillary on the other hand could easily be the next Secretary of State but may soon have more clout as a senior senator if Schumer doesn't run. Also I think she is holding out for the SCOTUS to take Stevens seat and once in I suspect she could end up some day as Chief.

Obama needs a southern governor or military man. Some of the names being thrown around are Sam Nunn, Evan Bayh, Chris Dodd, and Wesley Clark. Another name being offered is the present governor of Kansas, Kathleen Sebelius, who is a two term Democratic governor of a Republican state. Check out this article that lays it out well.

Potential Running mates

http://news.yahoo.co...en_veepstakes_1

[niner]

Let's not forget Republicans are one of our biggest enemies

I don't think so. You are painting all Republicans with a broad brush. There are many Republicans that are pro-life extension, just as there are many Democrats who are pro-death/anti-immortality.

Despite all the left-wing hysteria that President Bush is ruining the country, the world, and probably the universe, and that he is Hitler, the devil, and dumbo all combined, nothing huge happened within the country that changed the fabric of society. It was the same when Clinton was President, the roles were just reversed. Republicans thought he was the worst President ever. He made some changes within the government, laws were passed, but it did not have a HUGE impact on society. Really, I wish people would not base their whole outlook on life and their happiness upon who is president. Important, yes, but not the center of life and the universe.

"left-wing hysteria" = Painting Democrats (and even some Conservatives) with a rather broad brush.

I'll say the roles were reversed. Clinton never did anything significantly bad, yet the Republicans hounded him constantly at great public expense. (None of the so-called "scandals" ever amounted to anything.) They managed to catch him in a tepid affair with a more-than-willing 24 year old intern, about which, yes, he lied under oath. So they had an impeachment. Meanwhile, Clinton balances the budget and gives us eight years of peace and prosperity. Bush "misleads" us into the worst strategic disaster in our country's history, costing a trillion dollars at minimum, and more likely three trillion. He lards on the biggest Expansion of Government, aka the Medicare Drug Benefit, since LBJ. His deregulation of derivatives and interference in the work of States Attorneys General is the biggest single cause of the Mortgage Crisis that tanks the economy. The dollar's in the toilet and gas is four bucks a gallon. So, yeah, I agree that the roles were just reversed. Everything was reversed. But it's true, the Earth still spins on its axis.

[mentatpsi]

let's not make generic villains out of the two different political parties. I could never understand how anyone adheres to only one side, the way to really advance is to learn the perspectives of both... I could go on greater to extend my points, but i'm going to take Lazarus Long's wisdom and not derail the topic since i have a tendency of overkilling the derailment .

Edited by mysticpsi, 04 June 2008 - 10:40 PM.

[niner]

let's not make generic villains out of the two different political parties. I could never understand how anyone adheres to only one side, the way to really advance is to learn the perspectives of both... I could go on greater to extend my points, but i'm going to take Lazarus Long's wisdom and not derail the topic since i have a tendency of overkilling the derailment .

Well, having contributed to the derailment already, let me just say that I agree with you that it is wrong to blindly or mindlessly demonize one party. However, it is also wrong to ignore the actual record, and claim that they are both the same.

[biknut]

I've been reading that McCain will not pick Condi because that will make him look like more Bush.

[biknut]

I don't like either of the choices for president. I'm pretty sure the country is going to go to hell for the next 4 years, so as far as I'm concerned it would be better if it's all Democrat controlled. That way they'll be no doubt who's at fault.

I only want 3 things from the federal government. Get off my back, get out of my pocket, and protect the country from our enemies. The Democrats will do exactly the opposite.

[niner]

I don't like either of the choices for president. I'm pretty sure the country is going to go to hell for the next 4 years, so as far as I'm concerned it would be better if it's all Democrat controlled. That way they'll be no doubt who's at fault.

So you're saying that although the Republicans controlled all three branches of government, or four if you count K Street, for most of the past eight years, somehow the coming hell-going-to is the Democrat's fault? How do you figure?

[eternaltraveler]

let's not make generic villains out of the two different political parties. I could never understand how anyone adheres to only one side, the way to really advance is to learn the perspectives of both... I could go on greater to extend my points, but i'm going to take Lazarus Long's wisdom and not derail the topic since i have a tendency of overkilling the derailment .

Well, having contributed to the derailment already, let me just say that I agree with you that it is wrong to blindly or mindlessly demonize one party. However, it is also wrong to ignore the actual record, and claim that they are both the same.

Under Bush they have become more the same than ever. He's spent more on domestic projects, and social programs than any president since Lyndon Johnson, or even FDR.

[biknut]

I don't like either of the choices for president. I'm pretty sure the country is going to go to hell for the next 4 years, so as far as I'm concerned it would be better if it's all Democrat controlled. That way they'll be no doubt who's at fault.

So you're saying that although the Republicans controlled all three branches of government, or four if you count K Street, for most of the past eight years, somehow the coming hell-going-to is the Democrat's fault? How do you figure?

I don't think the Republicans have been great by any means, but things could have been a whole lot worse. There's a lot of bad Republicans sure, but the Democrats are split between old style blue dogs that aren't so bad, and way left Marxist, Socialists that are a majority in their party. I think Obama is one of them. Our government is going bankrupt already. Wait till we add national health care, and all manner of other social programs. And don't forget carbon taxes.

[eternaltraveler]

what we need is divided government. Government spending always goes up as a percentage of GDP under united government, and goes down under divided government.

[biknut]

what we need is divided government. Government spending always goes up as a percentage of GDP under united government, and goes down under divided government.

I agree, but divided government isn't even possible this time around. McCain is more like a Democrat than a Republican. He never attacks Democrats, only Republicans. He'll Protect the country from our enemy's, but he's a miserable loser when it comes to immigration.

Politicians are as much to blame for where we are now as the weak minded people voting for them. Most people don't want to take responsibility for their problems, and instead blame everyone but themselves. They look to the government to make their lives easier, but it never does, or there's a high price to pay usually in freedom.

[mentatpsi]

let's not make generic villains out of the two different political parties. I could never understand how anyone adheres to only one side, the way to really advance is to learn the perspectives of both... I could go on greater to extend my points, but i'm going to take Lazarus Long's wisdom and not derail the topic since i have a tendency of overkilling the derailment .

Well, having contributed to the derailment already, let me just say that I agree with you that it is wrong to blindly or mindlessly demonize one party. However, it is also wrong to ignore the actual record, and claim that they are both the same.

I was focusing mainly on the people who called themselves Republican or Democrats. I don't really know too much of the history of the errors of both, and I'm sure there are many secrets we're not aware of with both parties, it's only when the matter begins to influence us that people get involved or care... for instance, the idea of leaving Iraq, I don't want to get into a debate about it because i'm not sure what to think, but is leaving a country you brought into chaos ethical? Ethics seems to be the pursuit of many democrats, so i don't see why looking at it from another angle can't trigger a person to see it as wrong either. This was merely what i'm saying, if a someone really looks at this with wisdom, it seems impossible to divide a whole nation into only two.

[mentatpsi]

what we need is divided government. Government spending always goes up as a percentage of GDP under united government, and goes down under divided government.

I completely agree. It seems really strange that it's even possible to have a united government, it just doesn't make practical sense.