24 replies to this topic

[Zoroaster]

Has anyone ever tried taking all three major racetams at once?

I'm considering trying something like:

Piracetam - 800mg
Aniracetam - 600mg
Oxiracetam - 400mg

Twice a day, with proper choline support of course. There seem to be distinct benefits to each and I'm wondering why more people don't do this. Is there anyone whose tried it who can share their experience?

[Yearningforyears]

Has anyone ever tried taking all three major racetams at once?

I'm considering trying something like:

Piracetam - 800mg
Aniracetam - 600mg
Oxiracetam - 400mg

Twice a day, with proper choline support of course. There seem to be distinct benefits to each and I'm wondering why more people don't do this. Is there anyone whose tried it who can share their experience?

3 grams piracetam (twice daily) and 700 mg aniracetam gave me quite a sedated dumb feeling. No choline source...
I like to use piracetam alone. It makes me more creative and "open eyed", while aniracetam brings forth the focused memorizer.
Perhaps cycling racetams is a good thing?

[NickCallaway]

I'm equally puzzled. With all the junk you guys take, no one has thought to try all three of these? I'll have both piracetam and oxiracetam in my posession this friday. I'll post my experience with that combination, though I'm sure you've already experienced that. I would also like to know if there is synergy, or at least more cummulative effect when all three are taken together. I might have ordered already, though I was a little hesitant to go with a fat-soluable aniracetam, just on the off-chance it wasn't the kind of thing I wanted to store in my body.

N

[dumbdumb]

Nick - how're they working out for you today?

[mentatpsi]

didn't work out that well for me when i tried it. from what i can remember still the same fogginess, most really weren't working for me though at that point so it was one of my last attempts... you really have to think about the choline in such an experiment... you might just suffer a major headache.

[Yearningforyears]

Nick - how're they working out for you today?

For the time being all I take is piracetam and it´s working great. Together with cocoa, and rhodiola it really gives me a mood boost. It has helped my brain fog and creativity through some really hard times.
A funny thing is how important serotonin must be as a nootropic substance (depression literally paralyzes the brain) The reason why I got interested in the intellectual boosting effect, was because of an underlying (unknown at the time and self-diagnosed) chronic depression engulfing my head in a black cloud. Becoming a menace to customers in a pharmacy due to brainfog is not right, so the racetams sounded very compelling.

Also, my friend gave me some of his sertralin a week ago and man was I curious? Oh boy... Glad I tried this. Almost feel like a kid again (or how it felt a long time ago when the darkness had not corrupted the neurons).
So well. It´s really working in a beautiful way. Phew. Much better than my previously reported Djahnman this and djahnman that.
Like having a full head of mind again. A calm, peaceful and cheerful mind. Piracetam still provides a creative edge and no agitation or racing thoughts. At last! Time to live

Are the nootropics treating your brain any good?

[NickCallaway]

This weekend I dosed the following:

800mg Piracetam
800mg Oxiracetam
500mg CDP-Choline
~100mg Caffeine

This is my first experience mixing piracetam with any of the other racetam varients. Like my previous experience with piracetam, the onset of effects was smooth. I was never jittery, no hyperactivity, either physically or mentally. The peak seemed long, slow bell curve, though I did experience a gentle "rush," or perhaps a sudden realization that I was then clearly experiencing its effects. Perhaps you know the feeling.

I took an IQ test I had sitting on my shelf. It was the first one I've ever taken, so I can't say whether my score improved or not. My concentration was greatly improved, without the sort of tense, "fight or flight," focus associated with some of the stims. Very gentle. It's hard to say whether there were any problems that I was able to solve, but would not have been able to solve without the nootropics. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was. Perhaps around 5% of total question.

After the exam, I spent about an hour and half writing up some ideas for a plan of study in grad school--sort of a statement of purpose type thing. This, I thought, was an indication of greatly improved mental stamina. Ideas were not flowing out of my eyes, ears, and ass, but they were coming out, and surprisingly well formed. This is normal based on my previous use of piracetam by itself.

All in all, it is still difficult for me to determine whether the use of oxi and pirace at the same time resulted in an experience better than the sum of its parts. Piracetam alone has a powerful effect on me (don't hate me cuz you ain't me), so its hard to tell what is what.

I downloaded a program called gBrainy (linux) which has some really tough logic and memory puzzles. This weekend I'll pop a couple pills and see if it helps me out with them.

Nick

Edited by NickCallaway, 09 June 2008 - 09:38 PM.

[Zoroaster]

didn't work out that well for me when i tried it. from what i can remember still the same fogginess, most really weren't working for me though at that point so it was one of my last attempts... you really have to think about the choline in such an experiment... you might just suffer a major headache.

You were right. I tried the mixture today and ... not enough choline. I got a fairly potent headache for a good hour or so. But I toughed it out and everything was smooth from then on.

The only other racetam I've taken is Oxi which I've enjoyed. Taking all three together I didn't notice the slight boost in energy that I normally seem to get from Oxiracetam (though the hour-long headache may have masked that), and I noticed that the effects seemed to last quite a bit longer. All day really. It was different than Oxi alone but in ways that I'm not sure I can quite describe yet. My long-term memory was surprisingly stellar today but its always hard to say what's placebo and what's not until I get more experience with it. I'll be taking this combo for at least the next two weeks (with a little more choline added on in the future), so I'll report back periodically on my progress.

[stephen_b]

This weekend I dosed the following:

800mg Piracetam
800mg Oxiracetam
500mg CDP-Choline
~100mg Caffeine

Ideas were not flowing out of my eyes, ears, and ass, but they were coming out, and surprisingly well formed.

This has been my experience with oxiracetam too. Torque for the brain, not top speed. Nice for studying.

Stephen

[Zoroaster]

Well I'm on my third day on the mix. I didn't actually change my choline dose and yet the headaches never came back. I'm actually enjoying the effects of all three more than oxiracetam alone so far. Maybe its my imagination but the mix just seems to be a bit more well rounded. One area that I'm pretty sure is NOT placebo is the enhancement of my ability to recall long-term memories. I'm not going to bother telling any long anecdotal stories but lets just say I have had a multitude of experiences over the last three days in which I've recalled things that by rights I should not have even been close to remembering.

One disadvantage to the mixture is that I don't seem to have the same degree of focus I had with oxi alone. Not that oxiracetam made a big difference in this area, but it did seem to slightly boost my ability to stick to tasks and get things done. I have not noticed that as much with this mixture. I'm going to stick to this mix for the next several weeks and I'll report if I notice anything else significant.

[mentatpsi]

so Zoroaster... are you saying it actually improved without the need to readjust choline from the amount that gave you a headache?

[Zoroaster]

so Zoroaster... are you saying it actually improved without the need to readjust choline from the amount that gave you a headache?

Yep. I'm not sure why but I haven't had any headache issues since that first day and I haven't changed a thing. So maybe the headache was psychosomatic, I don't know.

[mentatpsi]

so Zoroaster... are you saying it actually improved without the need to readjust choline from the amount that gave you a headache?

Yep. I'm not sure why but I haven't had any headache issues since that first day and I haven't changed a thing. So maybe the headache was psychosomatic, I don't know.

I myself can't get any racetams to work without brain fog, so your experience is interesting indeed. How has your focus and memory changed throughout the usage?

[Zoroaster]

so Zoroaster... are you saying it actually improved without the need to readjust choline from the amount that gave you a headache?

Yep. I'm not sure why but I haven't had any headache issues since that first day and I haven't changed a thing. So maybe the headache was psychosomatic, I don't know.

I myself can't get any racetams to work without brain fog, so your experience is interesting indeed. How has your focus and memory changed throughout the usage?

I've never had brain fog issues with any racetam. With the mix I'm taking now I've noticed a very slight increase in focus (if anything), but the effects on my memory have been significant and I've recently realized that my processing speed is increasing quite a bit as well.

Take this for example, I just finished up a molecular biology lab class this last week. Now I'm fairly skilled at molecular biology and so I normally finish my labs before about two-thirds of the other students (its a class of about 35 or so). Well we had a lab last tuesday and I finished a full half an hour before anybody else in the class! And I wasn't even trying to go fast. Then we had our final on Thursday. It was an in-class practical exam. They gave us an hour and a half and I finished in 40 minutes, a good 20 minutes before anybody else. And once again I didn't feel like I was trying to rush, I felt like I was just going at my normal pace. The next day I checked my score and I got a 97%, while I normally scored around 85-90 on my previous mid-terms.

My short term and long term memory are both much, much better than they usually are. And I'm not reaching for words nearly as often either. I don't know how these effects have changed over the course of the last week, I don't think they've changed much at all as far as I can tell. I'm taking a break right now (I usually take my noots only 5 days a week) so I'll get back on them on monday and see how things develop. I'll be done with my classes early next week though so it will become more difficult to discern the effects.

All this is pretty different from when I took Oxi alone, which seemed to be more of a mild stimulant for me. I should probably try Piracetam and Aniracetam individually and see if its really just one of the racetams that's behind all this.

[NickCallaway]

Interesting results. On a side-note, I've also found oxi alone to be a bit more of a stimulant than anything else. My intuitive feeling is that I've had a better nootropic experience when piracetam is in the mix.

[Mr.Bananas]

Zoroaster, would you describe the state you reach as an all secure non doubting state with an enhanced ability to focus?

[NickCallaway]

I've got some ani coming in the mail this week (I've already got pi and oxi). Zoroaster, can you describe your dosing method/protocol a bit? I will try to reduplicate similar conditions.

[mentatpsi]

well i'm going to experiment with it as well. Your experience is quite interesting, I'm surprised it worked so well... does Aniracetam bother you at all? It's probably the most difficult one to manage given its tendency to "suck" without the proper ratio.

[Zoroaster]

Zoroaster, would you describe the state you reach as an all secure non doubting state with an enhanced ability to focus?

I'm not sure exactly what all that means but probably not. I don't think I feel "all secure non doubting", and like I said before my ability to focus is, if anything, only slightly enhanced. I just remember things more easily and think a little faster. At least it seems that way.

[Zoroaster]

I've got some ani coming in the mail this week (I've already got pi and oxi). Zoroaster, can you describe your dosing method/protocol a bit? I will try to reduplicate similar conditions.

My doses have been

800mg piracetam
600mg aniracetam
400mg oxiracetam
300-350mg alpha-GPC
300-350mg Centrophenoxine

I've been taking that mix 1-2 times a day, though honestly one time in the morning seems to last most of the day. I take it all on an empty stomach.

I multiplied the doses by 25 and put it all in a bag and mixed it around pretty well and then capped it. I say 300-350 for the choline and Centro because I had planned to only put in 300 of each but I ended up adding a little extra just to be safe and I'm not sure exactly how much I added.

I've also been taking vinpocetin and pyritinol but I've taken those before so all the effects I've discussed are effects over and above what I'm used to from those things. At least that's what I've tried to do.

[Zoroaster]

well i'm going to experiment with it as well. Your experience is quite interesting, I'm surprised it worked so well... does Aniracetam bother you at all? It's probably the most difficult one to manage given its tendency to "suck" without the proper ratio.

Yeah I was worried about that. I thought about starting out with just piracetam and oxiracetam together because it seems like Aniracetam is more hit-or-miss than the other two. But I haven't had any problems with it besides that headache on my first day. I suppose its possible that my experience would be even better if I were to take Aniracetam out, there's really no way for me to know right now. Once I run out of these pills I'll probably start mixing things around and try several combinations of racetam and see what happens.

[NickCallaway]

Alright, in the past week or so I've dosed all three major 'tams a total 4 times. Here is my reaction:

Note, dosage on the 'tams is not exact. I bought them in bulk, and am rather clumsy at the art of filling caps.

Dosage:

Noots
1000mg Piracetam (approx.)
800 mg Oxiracetam (exact)
700-800mg Aniracetam (approx)
1 large spoon full of raw almond butter (for the fat-soluable ani)
250mg CDP-choline
500mg choline bitrate
15mg vinpocetin

Other supplements
2000mg salmon oil
100mg co-q1o
once daily multivitamin
500mg cocao extract
250mg green tea extract
8 oz cup of green tea
2 medium sized sips of coffee
500mg bacopa (20% bacopsides), taken an hour before bed

Reaction:

My initial observation was that this combination took longer to achieve full effect than either oxi or piracetam separate or together (never taken ani by itself). In every case, it was this "lag" that inspired me to take a small amount of caffeine via green tea or a couple sips of coffee. This is has worked for me in the past, as if it was somehow "igniting" the nootropics.

Once full effect is achieved, however, I was very happy with the result. Dramatically improved focus and creativity. I've been struggling with the task of putting to paper my research interests for an upcoming application to grad school for a couple months. This, I thought, would be a perfect opportunity to test all three 'tams. In a single sitting, I felt I made more progress on this task than all i've done previously. Very effective brainstorming, mind mapping, and some writing (prose). Also had some very stimulating discussions with a good buddy of mine (also interested in grad school). On that note, I've had some terrific discussions with my colleagues at work on a number of weighty topics this week, ranging from politics to AI. Additionally, I seemed to have a much easier time doing the logic puzzles in gBrainy (a suite of mind games for linux and windows, generally pretty tough, medium difficulty setting). No help with the memory games, though.

Another interesting effect was a somehow drawn out experience of the passage of time. Perhaps this was the "increased processing speed" Zoroaster was speaking of. My habit at work usually is to concentrate for a bit on some work, then when I reach a natural break-point (completing a single task), I pull my head up, take a breather, and casually glance at the clock. This is what I did, only I was surprised to learn how little time had passed. After doing what seemed like perhaps 15 minutes of work, only 5 minutes had passed (obviously very anecotal measure, don't take the numbers too seriously). Even speech and conversation seemed to progress by at a slower pace. Words and sentences seemed to drawl out, yet my mind was quick and in that space I felt I had all the time in the world to carefully compose my thoughts.

This state persists for about 3-5 hours, afterwhich comes the only major undesirable side-effect. I would describe this combination as "peaky" and "crashy". Once the effects begin to wane, they start to flag. Then they start to sag. Ungh.. Feel a bit wasted, and not fit to concentrate on much of anything. Maybe even a little cranky, though not so much that I can't still enjoy myself after work. No amount of caffeine or re-dosing seemed pick me back up. It's just like, "when its done, its done." Sort of like life.

I hope my experience is of use to someone.

Nick

[luv2increase]

Has anyone ever tried taking all three major racetams at once?

I'm considering trying something like:

Piracetam - 800mg
Aniracetam - 600mg
Oxiracetam - 400mg

Twice a day, with proper choline support of course. There seem to be distinct benefits to each and I'm wondering why more people don't do this. Is there anyone whose tried it who can share their experience?

I have at varying dosages of each. In my experience, I was better off just sticking with piracetam by itself along with a choline source. You may be different though; who knows?

[Healthy56]

Nick - how're they working out for you today?

For the time being all I take is piracetam and it´s working great. Together with cocoa, and rhodiola it really gives me a mood boost. It has helped my brain fog and creativity through some really hard times.

I've been combining NutraceutxRx Piracetam with Verde Botanica's Mind Body & Spirit Rhodiola for some time, and it is a fantastic mental clarity combination. I'm a writer. I can sit for hours and get two pages into my work, but on this combination hit two pages of good material in 30 minutes or less. I'm telling you, this is the good stuff.