69 replies to this topic

[niner]

McCain finished 894th out of 899 at the Naval Academy and lost five jets! Could that really be true? That he was a partying and carousing brat whose high-ranking admiral father kept him from getting kicked out of the Naval Academy? Gosh, that seems a little harsh. That's what they're saying at this Ron Paul site.

[forever freedom]

Don't know if it's true. Even if it is, that was a long time ago, people change.

[biknut]

McCain kind of reminds me of Mr. Magoo. The speech he made the other night put me to sleep. Why vote for a fake Democrat when we can have the real thing?

[Cyberbrain]

McCain finished 894th out of 899 at the Naval Academy and lost five jets! Could that really be true? That he was a partying and carousing brat whose high-ranking admiral father kept him from getting kicked out of the Naval Academy? Gosh, that seems a little harsh. That's what they're saying at this Ron Paul site.

Go Ron Paul!

But yes McCain was a very poor student. I saw a documentary on the History Channel about McCain and he had to apply several times to get into the Naval Academy, eventually his father pulled some strings and he got in.

And how good of a pilot was he to get shoot down to begin with?

I heard he finished with a D average, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came last in his class. At least Bush got a C, and at least Bush WENT to a real University and studied law.

He was offered early release from Hanoi Hilton by his captors because his father was an admiral, but refused it.

He was probably released because he cracked in prison and betrayed all his comrades ... lol, just kidding

[niner]

Don't know if it's true. Even if it is, that was a long time ago, people change.

From what I read, it appears that the class ranking is true. It also appears to be true that he lost five jets, but several of them were not his fault. They said Bush changed, but look how that turned out.

[niner]

McCain finished 894th out of 899 at the Naval Academy and lost five jets! Could that really be true?

No.

When Conservatives are presented with facts that conflict with their ideology, they prefer to change the facts.

[DJS]

Who cares about the facts. McCain is so damn likable. And he's also got the cutest chipmunk chunky cheeks.


I have this eerie feeling that if McCain becomes President my ass is going to get drafted. #*%&!

[niner]

Who cares about the facts. McCain is so damn likable. And he's also got the cutest chipmunk chunky cheeks.

I have this eerie feeling that if McCain becomes President my ass is going to get drafted. #*%&!

The question is, would you like to sit down and have a beer with him?

Technosophy, be proactive!

[inawe]

A partier perhaps, but a brat? He was offered early release from Hanoi Hilton by his captors because his father was an admiral, but refused it.

Yes, he is The Hanoi Candidate. Modern version of the Manchurian Candidate. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
We know that the republicans are going to swift-boat Obama. So we have to gather material to double swift-boat McCain. Our future is at stake.

[niner]

McCain finished 894th out of 899 at the Naval Academy and lost five jets! Could that really be true?

No.

When Conservatives are presented with facts that conflict with their ideology, they prefer to change the facts.

He crashed once in Corpus Christi Bay, TX and collided with power lines in Spain (I don't know whether the plane was lost or just damaged during that incident, though commonsense would seem to suggest the latter.) Other than that he was shot down in Vietnam. So, no he did not lose 5 planes. Please don't accuse me of changing the facts when in fact it is you who is promoting half-facts and outright misinformation.

Why didn't you say so? "No means No." If you look upthread, you will see that I said this:

From what I read, it appears that the class ranking is true. It also appears to be true that he lost five jets, but several of them were not his fault. They said Bush changed, but look how that turned out.

The fact remains that he was piloting five planes when they were lost. At least two of them were not his fault. Getting shot down may or may not be. So he wasn't much of a pilot, but the near failure in the Naval Academy is far more serious. What does that tell us about the man who after being a national leader for many years and now seeking the presidency, admits he knows little about economics? Presidents don't need to be good pilots. They need to be smart.

[mentatpsi]

haha niner... you read my mind (was going to make a topic today regarding his lack of qualifications)... though i think he's dodgy for other reasons... any military focused individual that doesn't know the people he's dealing with (the Shiates and the Sunnis) has to either have a different agenda or really isn't qualified to lead. He doesn't seem like a bad guy, but not exactly president material. The main appeal of the guy is because we want to believe that a person who spent a portion of his life serving the military will have the knowledge of how to manage an operation to get Iraq stabilized and the US out (though honestly it seems difficult to have both)... understanding the different elements of the instability seems like a necessary component eh? Now perhaps it was his old age showing, politics is stressful, but on that perspective is this really the job for him? I kind of wonder if someone was like... "Say McCain you're a war hero, why don't you run?". If he does get somewhere, i can only hope his advisers are top-notch. For now, Obama seems a good candidate, but he seems quite deceptive.

Still a Ron Paul page as a source? seems biased

anyways "No End in Sight" looks like a pretty good documentary about the failures in the Iraq War, you might enjoy it.

Edited by mysticpsi, 07 June 2008 - 09:24 AM.

[mentatpsi]

For now, Obama seems a good candidate, but he seems quite deceptive.

If he is deceptive then how do you know he is a good candidate? All we really know is that he is deceptive.

Well i said "but" to signify my uncertainty . perhaps i'm suffering from the Obama syndrome lol. It's too bad Al Gore didn't run... i was beginning to like him.

Anyways, I really don't trust any of the possible presidents, they all seem like horrible picks... Obama scares me with how he's going to handle Iran and not knowing his stances, while McCain scares me with how he's going to handle pretty much everything. What would you yourself go for?

Seriously from the documentary i had posted they had 5 plans that were going to work out from among 500 (rough estimates i'm assuming), they didn't use them. I've heard many messed up stories about Iraq. I'm just lost ludongbin; a technological superpower such as the US messing up in such a manner... something smells funny.

[Shepard]

Even if it is, that was a long time ago, people change.

Yeah, I don't like McCain...but if that's the strongest argument anyone has against him, that's not much.

[Brainbox]

I like US politics

[niner]

Sparky, your "upthread" post is actually downthread from what I wrote (where you accused me of distorting the facts.) Why not look at what I was replying (your original post in this thread) before jumping to conclusions and accusing me of distortion.

My post #7 is upthread of your post #12. That's what I meant by that.
"Sparky". Gosh, that's cute. You sure are quick to jump to adolescent name calling when things aren't going your way.

The fact remains that he was piloting five planes when they were lost.

That is not what you wrote in your first post - you wrote "[he]...lost five planes" implying that the fault was his in all five cases. That is plainly untrue, and that is why I wrote "no." As far as the number and circumstances, it is all hearsay until you have presented some reliable sources. The fact that you would present these things as fact without having cited any reliable sources doesn't speak well for your integrity or your intentions.

In any case, I don't have time for you. I've actually got real work to do for the welfare of our country that has nothing to do with politics.

Oh, that's rich. You have plenty of time for endless threads slagging off Obama, but as soon as we're bringing your boy's faults to the light of day, you have work to do. What kind of sources do you want? Something authoritative, like Fox News?

[niner]

Even if it is, that was a long time ago, people change.

Yeah, I don't like McCain...but if that's the strongest argument anyone has against him, that's not much.

If losing some planes were the best argument against him, he'd be a pretty good candidate. Unfortunately, it's not. I'm a lot more concerned that "893 were smarter than he..." but on the bright side, there were five guys who did worse. We've seen the consequences of electing an idiot, and I'd rather not see us repeat that error. One might make the argument that McCain has learned a lot in the school of hard knocks, but he hasn't learned squat about economics, by his own admission. His "economic advisor" is Phil Graham, the guy who brought us the enabling legislation for the subprime mortgage crisis and Enron. He can't seem to tell the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite, so his qualifications for leading Mideast wars seems in question.

[Shepard]

I'm a lot more concerned that "893 were smarter than he..." but on the bright side, there were five guys who did worse. We've seen the consequences of electing an idiot, and I'd rather not see us repeat that error.

Since when did this become a valid argument? None of us have any clue as to what went on in his head while he was at college. Why not go back further? I think we overestimate the importance of formal education.

I mean, Yudkowsky didn't even go to college. I think he's pretty sharp.

Edited by shepard, 07 June 2008 - 10:31 PM.

[niner]

I'm a lot more concerned that "893 were smarter than he..." but on the bright side, there were five guys who did worse. We've seen the consequences of electing an idiot, and I'd rather not see us repeat that error.

Since when did this become a valid argument? None of us have any clue as to what went on in his head while he was at college. Why not go back further? I think we overestimate the importance of formal education.

I mean, Yudkowsky didn't even go to college. I think he's pretty sharp.

I think it speaks either to intelligence or character. By the time you are that age, you should at least have a shred of work ethic. Especially if you displaced another young man from the Academy, which he certainly did. Maybe he grew in Hanoi, I don't know. I think the Phil Graham/economics problem and the Sunni/Shiite problem are a lot more important 40 years on. Along with the joking about bombing Iran. These are all signs. Gas Tax Holiday, continuance of Bush economic policies... All signs.

[niner]

Anyways, I really don't trust any of the possible presidents, they all seem like horrible picks... Obama scares me with how he's going to handle Iran and not knowing his stances, while McCain scares me with how he's going to handle pretty much everything. What would you yourself go for?

Why is simple diplomacy scary? Nixon talked to China, and to Russia. Wars are avoided by diplomacy. America has sure turned weird. I guess the problem is that diplomacy is scary when people who want to have wars make it sound scary.

[mentatpsi]

well alright... it's possible that he's not going to be a failure. But what of his viewpoint on Iran... i too see them as a threat if they develop nuclear weapons (which seems like its going to be a certainty), but I kind of wonder how he'll handle Iran. I was watching the consequences to an invasion in Iran on the history channel (or was it the military channel), and they mentioned their availability of sleeper cells. I doubt there will be an invasion, but i think it's going to be extremely difficult managing nations that don't have a separation of church and state, and yet control nuclear power. What of his desires to see abortion illegal?

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life:

For this reason, John McCain opposes the intentional creation of human embryos for research purposes. To that end, Senator McCain voted to ban the practice of "fetal farming," making it a federal crime for researchers to use cells or fetal tissue from an embryo created for research purposes. Furthermore, he voted to ban attempts to use or obtain human cells gestated in animals. Finally, John McCain strongly opposes human cloning and voted to ban the practice, and any related experimentation, under federal law.

Anyways, for a better (but biased) understanding of what he believes here's what his campaign seems to be about:
John McCain Issues

Edited by mysticpsi, 08 June 2008 - 04:15 AM.

[mentatpsi]

Anyways, I really don't trust any of the possible presidents, they all seem like horrible picks... Obama scares me with how he's going to handle Iran and not knowing his stances, while McCain scares me with how he's going to handle pretty much everything. What would you yourself go for?

Why is simple diplomacy scary? Nixon talked to China, and to Russia. Wars are avoided by diplomacy. America has sure turned weird. I guess the problem is that diplomacy is scary when people who want to have wars make it sound scary.

diplomacy isn't simple. You may have a point at the end, but i still don't see why we trust nations who have went into Iraq to attack us and supplied weaponry. They have an agenda, diplomacy doesn't always solve the problem... especially when time is of the essence.

Edited by mysticpsi, 08 June 2008 - 04:29 AM.