5 replies to this topic

[nootnoob]

Hey, all. I've been lurking/reading/studying up on the forum here for a while, and was hoping to get some help with setting up and growing a noot stack. I'm mostly looking for neuro enhancers and protectors, plus something to help with energy levels. I'm 36, in a "brain-powered" job (software engineering) and just feel like I could be sharper, but aren't.

The first noot I heard about a few years ago was modafinil. I'd love to get my hands on that, but it's prescription and I honestly don't want to go through the time and worry of wrangling some of that. Then I recently ran into piracetam, started studying up on the wide world of nootropics I didn't know existed, and now want to start trying some of these things out. I'd like to start where I am now and slowly add noots, so I can gauge what effect they're having. Dumping a bunch of supplements into my body doesn't seem very "scientific method". So here's my plan...

I'm currently taking:
A multi
CoQ10 - 150mg/day
Fish oil - 3000mg (900mg "EPA/DHA and other Omega 3")/day
Gingko - 60mg @ 24% for 14.4mg/day
Vinpocetine - 5mg/day
(The gingko and the vinpocetine come in the same pill, and I figured why not?)

I like these -- I can even tell if I've missed the multi or not, so I know it's doing something beyond a placebo.

I want to add some piracetam and a choline source to synergize with it. I'm thinking something like this:
Piracetam - 800mg 3xday for 2400mg/day total
Alpha-GPC - 250mg/day
Centrophenoxine - 250mg/day

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to split the choline across two sources, mainly to keep the price of the GPC down a bit. I thought centro would be a good second source because it works through a different pathway, and it helps with lipofuscin. Does that sound reasonable? Should I replace the centro with CDP-choline? Maybe just have 500mg of CDP-choline instead of centro/GPC?

Once I've got the racetam/choline duo going for a bit, I'd like to add the "standard" ALA/ALCAR combo, something like:
ALA - 100mg 2x day for 200mg/day total
ALCAR - 1000mg 2x day 2000mg/day total

The doses on ALA/ALCAR seem hard to nail down. Looking through forums and articles I see doses in a 2000% range, since it seems to be fairly subjective. These seem like decent middle of the road amounts to start with.

From this point, I'm not sure where I would go, if anywhere. Maybe some bacopa or rhodiola? Maybe nothing? It seems like the noots above are the heavy hitters, and any milder effect I would get from the "second tier" noots would just be swamped and unnoticed.

And finally, suppliers. Relentless Improvement seems pricey. I can find all these at Bulk Nutrition, except for the centro. Does anyone have recommendations for reliable suppliers who ideally stock all these?

Thanks for putting up with my long-winded post. There is SO MUCH information here that it gets a bit overwhelming, and clarity is appreciated!

[Zoroaster]

Seems to me like you're approaching it the right way. I say go ahead and try your piracetam and choline combo. I actually think the alpha-GPC + centro combo is a great way to go. That's what I've been using and I like it a lot. You might need a little bit more than 250mg of each but its really dependant on the person so just see how you feel and try a few different things. Really I don't have much advice because what you've outlined seems like a good plan.

If you are looking for things to experiment with in the future you could think about trying some of the different racetams. People respond differently to different racetams so you could try out ani or oxi and see what works out best for you. Pyritinol is another well-researched noot that's been around for a long time. Herbally I think you're on the right path with the Rhodiola and/or Bacopa. Those are both pretty well studied for their anti-anxiety and minor nootropic effects so they're good ones to try. But that's all in the future. And you'll have plenty of time to research more between now and the time you're ready to add something new to your stack.

As far as suppliers go, I've basically resigned myself to the fact that I won't be able to get everything I want from one single supplier. I get almost all of my supplements from BulkNutrition.com because their prices are unbeatable on most things and they stock 90% of what I need. Some people on these boards are worried about their quality but they provide COA's on demand for everything they sell and I've been ordering from them for years with no bad experiences. They don't have everything though. I get my centrophenoxine from bodybuilding.com. They're a very reputable retailor in the sports nutrition industry and they ship really quickly. Sometimes I get stuff from "Beyond a century" as well because they've got good prices and they stock almost every herb imaginable. I'm sure RI's quality is great but I just can't bring myself to pay those prices. And I buy everything in bulk powder form and RI doesn't stock nearly as many powders as BN.

[wootwoot]

Why do so many people take so many nootropics? Try using deprenyl or adderall and I am sure you will get far more than that whole stack you are taking. Sometimes less is more.

[Zoroaster]

Why do so many people take so many nootropics? Try using deprenyl or adderall and I am sure you will get far more than that whole stack you are taking. Sometimes less is more.

All those things that nootnoob is taking and considering (Q10, fish oil, piracetam, choline, centro, ALA, ALCAR) are not only noots, they're good for you. Even if they did nothing for cognition they would probably be worth taking for their neuroprotective effects alone. You can't say that about Adderall. Not to mention the fact that most of us can't acquire it legally. There's also people like me who have heart conditions that make them unable to use stimulants. Deprenyl's not a bad choice but its expensive and still has danger potential if you're not careful about the dosing. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to shy away from Adderall, and even deprenyl, and choose a healthier stack that can still pack a punch for some people.

[nootnoob]

Seems to me like you're approaching it the right way. I say go ahead and try your piracetam and choline combo. I actually think the alpha-GPC + centro combo is a great way to go. That's what I've been using and I like it a lot. You might need a little bit more than 250mg of each but its really dependant on the person so just see how you feel and try a few different things. Really I don't have much advice because what you've outlined seems like a good plan.

Thanks for the information and your opinion on my plan! On the GPC/centro combo...I think I got the idea from one of your posts here. As for 250mg, I figured I'd start out a little low, and maybe boost it up, we'll see. The capsules I'm planning on using hold 600-700mg untamped, so upping to 300 or 350mg each seems logical. Plus like you said, since this plan spans several months, I have plenty of time to research and tweak.

Thanks again!

[nootnoob]

Why do so many people take so many nootropics? Try using deprenyl or adderall and I am sure you will get far more than that whole stack you are taking. Sometimes less is more.

I'm leery of stimulants in general (aside from my morning caffeine), and since I'm not suffering from ADD/ADHD or depression I think either of those drugs would be overkill. Perhaps it's a bit of snobbishness, too..."Drugs? No, no! I take supplements!" I might be taking more pills with noots, but I feel like I can target exactly what I want more easily.

If there's one thing I've learned from these forums, though, it's that there is no silver bullet, one size does not fit all, and to each their own!