9 replies to this topic

[NickCallaway]

Friends,
I've been experimenting with ALCAR lately, and thusfar I've been rather disappointed. I will describe what i've done, and perhaps someone can tell me if I'm doing it right.

Regimen:
800mg Oxiracetam
250mg CDP-Choline
300mg Bacopa (at night)
10mg Vinpocetine
100mg Caffeine as coffee
Fishoil
multi-vitamin

ALCAR trial #1: 500mg ALCAR w/ 300mg alpha-lipoic acid

Results: No noticable improvement in cognitive function. After about 1 hour, developed a strange feeling in my head. Felt a little groggy. Eyes sockets felt "dry," somehow; as if I had been up allnight or something.

ALCAR trial #2: 1500mg ALCAR w/ 600mg alpha-lipoic acid

Results: For the first hour or so, I seemed to have a bit more mental energy than I usually have before my coffee kicks in. Even thought about skipping the coffee. However, the same symptoms recurred. Slightly groggy, eye sockets feeling dry. On a side note, I also experienced enhanced sexual vigor. (Nice, but not what i was looking for).

Any thoughts? I know many of you speak highly of ALCAR, so I'm wondering if I'm going about this the wrong way.

Nick

[niner]

Just from my own experience, ALCAR isn't the kind of thing that kicks in right away. I take 500mg morning and evening. When I do this, I notice a higher energy level maybe the next day, or perhaps even after doing it for a couple days. I feel like my mood is brighter, but I probably notice it more in the gym. I tried ALCAR Arginate, and it didn't seem to do anything. I switched back to regular ALCAR.

[Ghostrider]

If you want to increase your energy, first thing I would do is start reducing your caffeine intake to 0. I admit that it is a potent mental stimulant, but I save it for when I really need it. It's not meant to be a chronic thing. I consider ALCAR to provide the best mental boost that I have found so far (given good diet, exercise, and sleep routine). However, the effect is not amazing. I feel it, but it won't knock you over.

[Zoroaster]

If you want to increase your energy, first thing I would do is start reducing your caffeine intake to 0. I admit that it is a potent mental stimulant, but I save it for when I really need it. It's not meant to be a chronic thing. I consider ALCAR to provide the best mental boost that I have found so far (given good diet, exercise, and sleep routine). However, the effect is not amazing. I feel it, but it won't knock you over.

I'll second the caffeine comment. Caffeine is awesome if you save it to use every once in a while. If you use it every day it saps your energy. At least that's how I felt. And I didn't really notice how much it was affecting me until I quit.

As far as the ALCAR goes I think most studies have used 1 gram dosed twice daily, I don't really know how much ALA is appropriate. I don't think you necessarily have to match them up like choline and racetams, they just work synergistically, so your ALA intake shouldn't affect the severity of your side effects from ALCAR. I don't use ALCAR regularly but the few times I have used it the "mental energy" boost was very mild. Very very mild. The side effects you're describing seem kind of unusual for ALCAR, are you sure its not being caused by one of the other elements of your stack? Have you tried boosting the choline?

[NickCallaway]

If you want to increase your energy, first thing I would do is start reducing your caffeine intake to 0. I admit that it is a potent mental stimulant, but I save it for when I really need it. It's not meant to be a chronic thing. I consider ALCAR to provide the best mental boost that I have found so far (given good diet, exercise, and sleep routine). However, the effect is not amazing. I feel it, but it won't knock you over.

I'll second the caffeine comment. Caffeine is awesome if you save it to use every once in a while. If you use it every day it saps your energy. At least that's how I felt. And I didn't really notice how much it was affecting me until I quit.

As far as the ALCAR goes I think most studies have used 1 gram dosed twice daily, I don't really know how much ALA is appropriate. I don't think you necessarily have to match them up like choline and racetams, they just work synergistically, so your ALA intake shouldn't affect the severity of your side effects from ALCAR. I don't use ALCAR regularly but the few times I have used it the "mental energy" boost was very mild. Very very mild. The side effects you're describing seem kind of unusual for ALCAR, are you sure its not being caused by one of the other elements of your stack? Have you tried boosting the choline?

I'm pretty sure the ALCAR is at least part of the issue. When I take the same stack w/o the ALCAR, I do not experience these side-effects. I've also tried it without the vinpocetine (that was my first thought). The one thing that I've always taken with the ALCAR and ONLY with the ALCAR, is the ALA. Is it possible the ALA is causing this?

N

[spider]

ALCAR trial #1: 500mg ALCAR w/ 300mg alpha-lipoic acid

Results: No noticable improvement in cognitive function. After about 1 hour, developed a strange feeling in my head. Felt a little groggy. Eyes sockets felt "dry," somehow; as if I had been up allnight or something.

ALCAR trial #2: 1500mg ALCAR w/ 600mg alpha-lipoic acid

Results: For the first hour or so, I seemed to have a bit more mental energy than I usually have before my coffee kicks in. Even thought about skipping the coffee. However, the same symptoms recurred. Slightly groggy, eye sockets feeling dry.

Hello,

I have also experienced negative effects with alcar and rala. When I take this combo together at the same time on an empty stomach, I get those negative effects you described. But when I take rala and alcar with 30 minutes between them, I only notice the positive effects of this combo. I have experienced the same with the alcar and rhodiola rosea combo, so to be on the safe side I always take alcar isolated from other supplements.

I know nothing about biochemistry, but I suspect that alcar reacts with some supplements. Could this be true?

[Zoroaster]

I have heard, and this is just heresay so take it with a grain of salt, that ALCAR and R-ALA can react when in close proximity to one another. I have heard some people say that this is why you never see ALCAR and R-ALA capped together despite the fact that they work synergistically. I have also heard several people use this as justification for taking them 30 mins apart just like Spider does here.

Once again, I don't know that much about this subject and the points above are just things I've heard through the grapevine. But seperating your ALCAR and ALA doses couldn't hurt.

[nightlight]

I'm pretty sure the ALCAR is at least part of the issue. When I take the same stack w/o the ALCAR, I do not experience these side-effects. I've also tried it without the vinpocetine (that was my first thought). The one thing that I've always taken with the ALCAR and ONLY with the ALCAR, is the ALA. Is it possible the ALA is causing this?

I also had problem with ALCAR(500mg)+ALA(300mg) combination. While ALCAR alone 500mg morning & noon works like magic for mental energy, mood and focus, the inclusion of ALA would put me in some kind of detached and weird (unpleasant) mental state. ALA alone also has similar effect, so I don't use it at all (I use NAC, C complex, mixed E & cocoa for antioxidants). The only unexpected effect of ALCAR was that if I take it when I am already tired, e.g. to do some evening work, it puts me to sleep very quickly.

[dachshund]

Na-RALA is unstable in the presence of ALCAR. ALCAR is slightly acidic and Na-RALA is a weak base the two react together to form salt and sticky RALA polymer. It is best to dissolve Na-RALA from Geronova into 8 ounces of water and drink, then wait about 15 minutes before taking ALCAR. This works fine. Na-RALA while termed as "stabilized" RALA is probably reactive with any acid sources (e.g., juices). I take Na-RALA alone and do not take any other supp.'s for at least 15 minutes after drinking Na-RALA in water. I have found Na-RALA is perfectly happy co-dissolved with sodium ascorbate, BUT is not stable co-dissolved with other mineral ascorbates.

[niner]

I have found Na-RALA is perfectly happy co-dissolved with sodium ascorbate, BUT is not stable co-dissolved with other mineral ascorbates.

It makes sense that Na-RALA is happy with sodium ascorbate, because as a salt of a weak acid, sodium ascorbate will be slightly alkaline when dissolved in water. (this is because the ascorbate anion steals some protons from the water to form its normal equilibrium concentration of ascorbate/ascorbic acid.) The part that I'm wondering about is the problem with the other mineral ascorbates. Calcium or Magnesium, perhaps? Is the lipoic acid forming a complex with these divalent metal ions? Should lipoic acid be taken apart from divalent metals?