13 replies to this topic

[mentatpsi]

I'm not sure how many are aware of Absinthe. It was a popular drink for sometime, indulged by the likes of Van Gogh, Oscar Wilde, Crowley, and various others. Having recently partaken in it (only one serving), i have found a rather interesting effect that was not like the archetypal alcohol for me. Granted placebo effects, it was as though the perception of the world altered quite a bit and began to contain a hidden spark not often noticed. There was also a level of creativity, quite similar to that experienced under Piracetam but more of a sedation, with thoughts and verbal creativity enhanced a bit after about 20 minutes of consumption. It is obvious, however, that overindulgence will give quite the opposite effect, but it seems a once in awhile serving might give benefits.

Given both the nature and history of the drink, one must wonder if it presents any additional boosts in area of cognition dealing primarily with creativity, or if merely the alcohol. Current maximum legal amount of thujone (active ingredient in wormwood) is about 10 mg/L, at this level it is brought back to America and sold legally. Anyways, I have found a study on it for those interested about its history and effects in more detail:

http://www.substance...content/1/1/14/
Modern studies about pharmacology and toxicology of thujone and the conclusion are perhaps the most informative parts of the article.

What do you guys think?

[lunarsolarpower]

Do you know why it is always sold in the form of an alcoholic beverage? Is it to ensure that only those of legal drinking age can access it or is there some other reason?

[zoolander]

Absinthe is nothing but just strong alcohol and hence it's no nootropic

J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 14;56(9):3073-81. Epub 2008 Apr 18.Click here to read Links
Chemical composition of vintage preban absinthe with special reference to thujone, fenchone, pinocamphone, methanol, copper, and antimony concentrations.
Lachenmeier DW, Nathan-Maister D, Breaux TA, Sohnius EM, Schoeberl K, Kuballa T.

Chemisches und Veterinäruntersuchungsamt (CVUA) Karlsruhe, Weissenburger Strasse 3, D-76187 Karlsruhe, Germany. Lachenmeier@web.de

Thirteen samples of authentic absinthe dating from the preban era (i.e., prior to 1915) were analyzed for parameters that were hypothesized as contributing to the toxicity of the spirit, including naturally occurring herbal essences (thujone, pinocamphone, fenchone), methanol, higher alcohols, copper, and antimony. The total thujone content of preban absinthe was found to range between 0.5 and 48.3 mg/L, with an average concentration of 25.4 +/- 20.3 mg/L and a median concentration of 33.3 mg/L. The authors conclude that the thujone concentration of preban absinthe was generally overestimated in the past. The analysis of postban (1915-1988) and modern commercial absinthes (2003-2006) showed that the encompassed thujone ranges of all absinthes are quite similar, disproving the supposition that a fundamental difference exists between preban and modern absinthes manufactured according to historical recipes. Analyses of pinocamphone, fenchone, base spirits, copper, and antimony were inconspicuous. All things considered, nothing besides ethanol was found in the absinthes that was able to explain the syndrome "absinthism".

[NickCallaway]

Absinthe is nothing but just strong alcohol and hence it's no nootropic

J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 14;56(9):3073-81. Epub 2008 Apr 18.Click here to read Links
Chemical composition of vintage preban absinthe with special reference to thujone, fenchone, pinocamphone, methanol, copper, and antimony concentrations.
Lachenmeier DW, Nathan-Maister D, Breaux TA, Sohnius EM, Schoeberl K, Kuballa T.

Chemisches und Veterinäruntersuchungsamt (CVUA) Karlsruhe, Weissenburger Strasse 3, D-76187 Karlsruhe, Germany. Lachenmeier@web.de

Thirteen samples of authentic absinthe dating from the preban era (i.e., prior to 1915) were analyzed for parameters that were hypothesized as contributing to the toxicity of the spirit, including naturally occurring herbal essences (thujone, pinocamphone, fenchone), methanol, higher alcohols, copper, and antimony. The total thujone content of preban absinthe was found to range between 0.5 and 48.3 mg/L, with an average concentration of 25.4 +/- 20.3 mg/L and a median concentration of 33.3 mg/L. The authors conclude that the thujone concentration of preban absinthe was generally overestimated in the past. The analysis of postban (1915-1988) and modern commercial absinthes (2003-2006) showed that the encompassed thujone ranges of all absinthes are quite similar, disproving the supposition that a fundamental difference exists between preban and modern absinthes manufactured according to historical recipes. Analyses of pinocamphone, fenchone, base spirits, copper, and antimony were inconspicuous. All things considered, nothing besides ethanol was found in the absinthes that was able to explain the syndrome "absinthism".

I've also tried absinthe, and certainly unlike any other alcoholic experience I've had. At the time, however, I hadn't thought to try anything creative.

[ntenhue]

I'm going to have to agree with NickCallaway. I tend to experience quite a different state of mind when I drink absinthe as opposed to other alcoholic beverages although it does not seem to be any kind of nootropic effect. I'd explain it as more of a change in consciousness, but this may just be because of the high percentage of alcohol.

I wonder if one too many absinthes was the reason Van Gough decided to chop his ear off...

[graatch]

Absinthe is nothing but just strong alcohol and hence it's no nootropic

I believe that it is faulty reasoning that leads "skeptics" (and those who were lobbying the EU for legalisation of the substance) to make the claim that the thujone in absinthe is producing no additional effect.

I could go into detail, but it would be a long post. ehh.

[Zoroaster]

Absinthe is nothing but just strong alcohol and hence it's no nootropic

J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 14;56(9):3073-81. Epub 2008 Apr 18.Click here to read Links
Chemical composition of vintage preban absinthe with special reference to thujone, fenchone, pinocamphone, methanol, copper, and antimony concentrations.
Lachenmeier DW, Nathan-Maister D, Breaux TA, Sohnius EM, Schoeberl K, Kuballa T.

Chemisches und Veterinäruntersuchungsamt (CVUA) Karlsruhe, Weissenburger Strasse 3, D-76187 Karlsruhe, Germany. Lachenmeier@web.de

Thirteen samples of authentic absinthe dating from the preban era (i.e., prior to 1915) were analyzed for parameters that were hypothesized as contributing to the toxicity of the spirit, including naturally occurring herbal essences (thujone, pinocamphone, fenchone), methanol, higher alcohols, copper, and antimony. The total thujone content of preban absinthe was found to range between 0.5 and 48.3 mg/L, with an average concentration of 25.4 +/- 20.3 mg/L and a median concentration of 33.3 mg/L. The authors conclude that the thujone concentration of preban absinthe was generally overestimated in the past. The analysis of postban (1915-1988) and modern commercial absinthes (2003-2006) showed that the encompassed thujone ranges of all absinthes are quite similar, disproving the supposition that a fundamental difference exists between preban and modern absinthes manufactured according to historical recipes. Analyses of pinocamphone, fenchone, base spirits, copper, and antimony were inconspicuous. All things considered, nothing besides ethanol was found in the absinthes that was able to explain the syndrome "absinthism".

This is the exact study that came to my mind when I read the topic. This study is significant because once absinthe went into modern mass production people complained that it didn't do anything special. So the argument was made that the older types of absinthe must have been different. This study demonstrated that they weren't. I've never tried it myself but there are thousands of absinthe enthusiasts that claim modern absinthe does nothing more than alcohol. And the study above demonstrates that the special powers of absinthe may never have been anything more than placebo.

I've read a few well-researched papers on this subject. I'll post them here if I can find them again.

[mentatpsi]

At 100 mg/L, thujone has quite a different effect than low dosage thujone (10 mg/L) alcohol

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to determine whether the impacts of absinthe on attention performance and mood were different from those experienced with beverages that contain only alcohol. The ingredient causing absinthe's toxicity is believed to be thujone.
METHODS: A total of 25 healthy subjects participated in the study. An attention performance test and two questionnaires testing different mood dimensions were used. Three drinks with an identical amount of alcohol but with different amounts of thujone were offered.
RESULTS: The results of the present study showed that the simultaneous administration of alcohol containing a high concentration [100 mg/l] of thujone had a negative effect on attention performance. Under this condition, the subjects tended to direct their attention to signals in the central field of attention and to neglect peripheral signals; the number of correct reactions decreased significantly in the peripheral field of attention, and reaction time and the number of "false alarm" reactions increased significantly. The effects were most prominent at the time of the first measurement. When the subjects were under the influence of alcohol or were administered both alcohol and a low thujone concentration [10 mg/l], these effects were not observed. The assessment of mood state dimensions showed that the anxiolytic effect of alcohol was temporarily counteracted by a high thujone concentration.
CONCLUSIONS: As they are apparently opposed to the effect of alcohol, the reactions observed here can be explained by the antagonistic effect of thujone on the gamma-aminobutyric acid receptor. Similar alterations were observed for the other mood state dimensions examined.

http://www.erowid.or...iew.php?ID=7039

I am aware this is a negative effect, but for creativity, attention doesn't always have to be positively increased.

[mentatpsi]

Absinthe is nothing but just strong alcohol and hence it's no nootropic

I believe that it is faulty reasoning that leads "skeptics" (and those who were lobbying the EU for legalisation of the substance) to make the claim that the thujone in absinthe is producing no additional effect.

I could go into detail, but it would be a long post. ehh.

might be interesting nonetheless

[mentatpsi]

Do you know why it is always sold in the form of an alcoholic beverage? Is it to ensure that only those of legal drinking age can access it or is there some other reason?

best of my knowledge, it is very similar to making a tincture but with a distilling phase. Combination of wormwood, 90+% alcohol (everclear), fennel, star anise, and various other ingredients through a sitting and distilling process. It is quite possible to buy wormwood itself, but if the active ingredients are enhanced through this distilling process i have no idea. There is a history of wormwood being used for medical purposes (link), but i'm not sure of any psychoactive effects. More importantly, there are toxic effects to wormwood itself at high dosages, which would make it difficult and dangerous to experiment with without some prior knowledge of botany.

Edited by mysticpsi, 23 June 2008 - 04:51 PM.

[mentatpsi]

hmm so what's the conclusion?

[Shannon Vyff]

A few months back when it was legal to buy Absinthe here in TX again, some area friends started researching where and what the best to buy would be. I tried the variety with the most thujone and didn't really notice anything different, from what 'very drunk' felt like, I may have had too much though.

[mentatpsi]

A few months back when it was legal to buy Absinthe here in TX again, some area friends started researching where and what the best to buy would be. I tried the variety with the most thujone and didn't really notice anything different, from what 'very drunk' felt like, I may have had too much though.

ohh well, i think it might just be the ritual involved in the process. Environment and mindset going into something easily affect the results, so it's very possible my mindset and the ritual just induced the experience I got. I had also ordered the one with the most thujone and the least alcohol; i believe it was Kübler (53% alcohol). Do you remember which brand did you had?

Either way, i had bought myself a bottle (Lucid) to test it out and the effects weren't the same as the first time. Then again i began taking Ashwagandha so that might have had an impact.

[mentatpsi]

My conclusion is that the prices have been grossly exaggerated due to the legends and culture of the drink. The effects so far can be marked as placebo with so far no evidence that the current level of 10 mg thujone per L has any noticeable effects.