159 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

I posted this thread earlier; Zoolander moved the thread into the free speech sub forum. I have advised him to never ever move, modify or delete anything that I write again. Following this post are the original posts that were moved a short few hours ago.
I am posting this here because I have discovered a Constitutional infirmity with this site.
Our Constitution reads in part
· Free Speech Forum: ImmInst will reserve a forum for the expression of free speech. This forum will be named the “Free Speech Forum”. ImmInst will not restrict speech in this forum in so far as speech remains lawful as enforced by the United States government. Members who visit the Free Speech Forum should be prepared to tolerate objectionable material.
· Disclaimer: ImmInst cannot be held responsible for problems associated with any ideas or suggestions made and found in the forums and/or in any correspondence in association with ImmInst. All recommendations for supplement intake, bodily enhancement and/or augmentation, etc. should be considered with caution. Individuals are advised to seek advice from a qualified physician before acting upon any recommendations.

Several years ago we hotly debated the issue of Freedom of Speech on this site, and as a result our constitution provided for a separate forum that would be equal in all respects to the other forums. Today, we learn that this is not so. Although our constitution mandates a forum, we only have a sub forum. That is not keeping with the provision or the spirit that the founding fathers of this forum who debated called for. I know, I was the one who raised the argument.
Today, I am calling for leadership to correct this constitutional infirmary, immediately and without delay.

[thefirstimmortal]

The Free Speech Forum???
The free speech forum has apparently been dismantled. It is no longer a forum; it’s a puny little sub forum. And it’s been muffled and restricted. Can’t be Googled so the outside world can’t stumble across what’s posted. Won’t show up in "Active Topics", so it will reduce the attention it gets.
Is that keeping with what was agreed on several years ago, in spirit and letter? I don’t think it is.


Wow, decided go back and review the debates that surrounded the set up of the now defunct Freedom of Speech forum. Wasn’t even looking for evidence of censorship, but I found it. On May 24, 2008 Ben-Aus posted the topic “Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupported rhetoric”

The post contained the following

“Well I'm feeling a bit tired and silly so I thought I'd post something a little bit controversial.

The idea is that you post the name of a member or members having a destructive affect on these forums. Please no vendettas try to be as unbiased as possible.

Ok, I declare full immunity because I started this topic. Anyone who disagrees will be first on my list.”

Two days later, Zoolander closed the topic, and wrote “Ben I think that your intentions for this post are probably good but it's not really appropriate. We have navigators and moderator's assigned to control the forums.

This topic is closed”

Who is Zoolander to close a topic in the free speech forum? Isn’t the title of the forum self-explanatory? The topic needs to be reopened, and someone needs to explain to Zoolander what the definition of Free Speech is.

William Constituion O’Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

Gee Zoolander, I see you have read my post. No Comment? Care to explain to those of us who would have enjoyed reading that thread, why we should be subject to your personal censorship?

[thefirstimmortal]

The following is Zoolanders response

The post was not orinally posted in the free speech fora may have been moved into the free speech forum incorrectly after it was closed. I understand the purpose of the free speech fora and would not have closed a topic there unless it breached the consistution.

I do not think that anyone's right to free speech has been violated here. I spoke to Ben - Aus about the above mentioned post and he explained to me that the post was merely the result of an excess of energy.

Oh, my apologies Zoolander, the post wasn’t originally posted in the Freedom Forum??? Where was it originally posted? The topic was started by Ben on May 24, 2008 at 12:15 pm, and was closed by you on May 26, 2008 at 3:49. So you claim that someone else moved it there in those 2 days. If my memory serves me, only leaders and navigators can move the topics, would that be correct? If it wasn’t moved by you, whom might have moved it?

You Wrote “I spoke to Ben - Aus about the above mentioned post and he explained to me that the post was merely the result of an excess of energy.”

That was kind of Ben to explain that to you, because he doesn’t need to explain to anybody why he posts what he posts, at least that’s the theory behind the Free Speech Forum.

You claim that you understand the purpose of the Free Speech Forum, and wouldn’t have closed the topic there. Great, no matter where the post may or may not have been, you clearly know it is currently in the Free Speech Forum. And since you are the one who closed the topic and locked it out, you’re going to grab your keys, march right down and unlock it. Right?

[thefirstimmortal]

This is a copy of Zoolanders post

still an argumentative troll I see.

Where was it originally posted?

As far as I can remember it was posted into the suggestions fora

So you claim that someone else moved it there in those 2 days. If my memory serves me, only leaders and navigators can move the topics, would that be correct? If it wasn't moved by you, whom might have moved it?

It may have been me who moved it to the free speech fora. Regardless, it was locked and moved out of the main circulation due to it's flippant content.

You Wrote "I spoke to Ben - Aus about the above mentioned post and he explained to me that the post was merely the result of an excess of energy."

That was kind of Ben to explain that to you, because he doesn't need to explain to anybody why he posts what he posts, at least that's the theory behind the Free Speech Forum.

I warned Ben about the post. His energy seemed to be somewhat misguided and I redirected it. That's what us navs and mods do with new members. We guide them. Ben seemed to be appreciative of that and open to the suggestion to back it off a little.

You claim that you understand the purpose of the Free Speech Forum, and wouldn't have closed the topic there. Great, no matter where the post may or may not have been, you clearly know it is currently in the Free Speech Forum. And since you are the one who closed the topic and locked it out, you're going to grab your keys, march right down and unlock it. Right?

No.

Now considering that this is not really on topic I'm moving it. Feel free to continue your discussion in free speech. You are entitled to your views TheFirstImmortal regardless of whether they are trolling for an arguement or not

[thefirstimmortal]

This is a fresh new post from me

You claim that you understand the purpose of the Free Speech Forum, and wouldn’t have closed the topic there. Great, no matter where the post may or may not have been, you clearly know it is currently in the Free Speech Forum. And since you are the one who closed the topic and locked it out, you’re going to grab your keys, march right down and unlock it. Right?
[/quote]
Gee Zoolander, I asked you to unlock Ben's topic thread that is in the free speech forum, and you give me a flat no. Hey Buddy, All I ask is that you stick to the rules and regulations as outlined in the consitution.

[zoolander]

allow me then to quote from the posting guidelines

Posting Guidelines

The following guidelines are here to promote constructive and thought provoking discussion. Please consider these guidelines carefully when participating in forum discussions.

Please Be Courteous
Please Be Informative
Please Be Relevant
Please Be Accessible

Forum posts and topics which fail to adhere to these guidelines are subject to moderation as granted by the ImmInst User Agreement.

Courteous

* Be polite when replying to others.
* Avoid using derogatory language.
* Maintain a constructive attitude.
* Attack ideas and not people.

Informative

* Be informative and clear when posting.
* Before creating a new topic, check to see if the topic hasn't already been created elsewhere.

Relevant

* Avoid making duplicate posts.
* Post topics under the appropriate forums.
* Keep follow-up posts on topic.
* Avoid posting advertisements or Spam.

Accessible

* Be sure that the posted text is readable.
* Use emoticons/smiles sparingly.
* Post pictures when relevant by not excessively.

ByLaw A states...

ImmInst members must adhere to the following agreement or risk losing membership privileges.......
......
Authority: ImmInst Leadership has the authority to edit, move or remove any post which does not follow Posting Guidelines. ImmInst leaders will use this authority only if they feel the mission is in jeopardy.

You're in breach of the posting gudeline as listed above on more than one account. I moved your original topic into free speech because it was posted into an inappropriate fora. It was posted into the "Imminst update" fora. I saw this an attempt to dismantle the reputation of the institute and hence I acted.

I posted this thread earlier; Zoolander moved the thread into the free speech sub forum.

Yes and I moved it for a reason however, you repost it to antagonise the situation further.

For those of you whgo would prefer to read the original post as opposed to the constructed post above please feel free to do so

http://www.imminst.o...d33-t22842.html

As you will see a question was answered about a benign situation where a new member posted a topic that was closed and then moved to the free speech forum. I spoke to the member in question at the time and the closure of the thread and subsequent move was a process by which the poster was informed about the posting guidelines. On that account I simply asked that he redirect his energy. Guiding new members on how to post is one of my constitutional requirements

Section 4 -- Navigators

1. Responsibility

Navigators moderate individual electronic forum(s) on ImmInst's website. Moderation includes the starting and closing of discussions, editing contributions where appropriate and helping inexperienced contributors and members.

Finally, I gave you your first warning for reposting a topic. I must you warn you again. Please do not repost topics that have been moderated for reasons outlined in the Immortality Institute Constitution & Bylaws.

I'm going to leave this topic open and where it is. I ask that you follow posting guidelines i.e CIRA and do your best to maintain a productive and conducive discussion

[Ben]

Ok before I start this I'd like to make it clear that I've personally no problem with the fact that the topic was closed. This is of course separate from thefirstimmortal's argument here and I recognise that.

I would like to clarify a few things:

1. It has been said that my original topic was created somewhere else other than the free speech forum. This, I believe, is not true. I haven't a perfect memory so I cannot be 100% sure that this is the case, I am however extremely confident.

2. I did not post the topic because I had excess energy. I posted it because I was tired, silly and feeling a little bit crazy. I think it's misleading to group those adjectives using one that is, in my mind, unrelated to all three.

3. I look upon the original post as a bit of an embarrassment, I was very tired.


Zoolander I believe you have not properly addressed thefirstimmortal's argument. You paste the site's constitution here and highlight parts of it that you think support your actions; I see nothing in what you've highlighted that does so.

A passage you emphasised was:

Courteous

* Be polite when replying to others.
* Avoid using derogatory language.
* Maintain a constructive attitude.
* Attack ideas and not people.

The original post (the one I made when I was feeling tired and silly) clearly tried to discourage this and in no way condoned it. I remember writing that I wanted vedettas and personal feelings to be left out of any reply to the post. Isn't this akin to attacking the idea, here the idea of posting inappropriate material, rather than the person, in this case whatever your personal feelings might be towards the individual?

thefirstimmortal has a valid point, and even if you can argue an interpretation of this site's constitution in favour of your argument that your actions were appropriate, you would still be negletting to address the fact that it was posted afterall in the free speech forum. A forum where the rules are different to the rest of the site. Where the site's internal rules (its const.) do not strictly apply.

Once again I accept the locking of the topic, you have no need to justify your actions with me. I personally see how what I did was inappropriate. On the other hand I do not believe that you are fully addressing thefirstimmortal's objections however valid I personally think those objections are.

As a disclaimer I should probably add that I am very tired, silly and a little bit crazy so everything I've just written could prove to be an even bigger embarrassment to me when I am of clear mind.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 29 June 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[Shepard]

I have advised him to never ever move, modify or delete anything that I write again.

Your posts will be moved when it is appropriate. You do not get to place demands upon the leadership of this site. If one of us is out of line, PM others and we'll handle it.

The original thread in Free Speech opened the door for libel.

[thefirstimmortal]

Interesting Zoolander. You wrote in a prior post, "still an argumentative troll I see." Was that Courteous, Informative, or Relevant? Was that polite? Do you think that your comment displayed a constructive attitude? Was calling me a troll an attack on my ideas or me?

allow me then to quote from the posting guidelines

Posting Guidelines

The following guidelines are here to promote constructive and thought provoking discussion. Please consider these guidelines carefully when participating in forum discussions.

Please Be Courteous
Please Be Informative
Please Be Relevant
Please Be Accessible

Forum posts and topics which fail to adhere to these guidelines are subject to moderation as granted by the ImmInst User Agreement.

Courteous

* Be polite when replying to others.
* Avoid using derogatory language.
* Maintain a constructive attitude.
* Attack ideas and not people.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 30 June 2008 - 03:15 AM.

[Matthias]

I'll try to repair this incident neutrally.

I suggest, we:
1.) make one of the six identical posts visible again
2.) delete the five copies of it
3.) stay friendly with each other and forget about this

!

Edited by Matthias, 29 June 2008 - 08:46 PM.

[Athanasios]

Since it looks as if the post, that caused the debacle, is now open, anew, and ongoing in the free speech forum, regardless of where it was initially, i am closing this topic and moving it to 'unrelated to life extention'

[Shannon Vyff]

Since it looks as if the post, that caused the debacle, is now open, anew, and ongoing in the free speech forum, regardless of where it was initially, i am closing this topic and moving it to 'unrelated to life extention'

Thanks Cnorwood.

I'm glad to see that First Immortal is here and posting, hopefully this means his health has improved . I love Zoolander and his valuable work (and mirth) around here, so Matthias I'd have to vote for number 3 I very much appreciate ImmInst's rules being posted, and Ben-Aus voicing his views on an issue that has involved him, thank you to Shepard and Matthias for intervening. It must be quite a shock to see some important parts of ImmInst be so different for First Immortal, the current policy regarding the Free Speech Forum is a good issue to debate and possibly implement change, but let us please do this without becoming upset at the people who do not readily agree with us.

[Mind]

Please be respectful toward each other.

THe constitution states Imminst shall have a free speech forum...so I agree that it should be changed to forum status and not sub-forum status.

As far as Navigators moving threads....that is the power they have been invested with and they do their job very well. We have a great crew that keeps the forums from spinning down into total anarchy. We can't have people posting questions about hydroponic vegetables in the computer science forum. There is value in having a free speech FORUM and in having logical order elsewhere. We'll figure out these issues soon. Please remember that we are all in this together and we are all striving toward the same end goal.

[thefirstimmortal]

allow me then to quote from the posting guidelines

ByLaw A states...
ImmInst members must adhere to the following agreement or risk losing membership privileges.......
......
Authority: ImmInst Leadership has the authority to edit, move or remove any post which does not follow Posting Guidelines. ImmInst leaders will use this authority only if they feel the mission is in jeopardy.

You're in breach of the posting gudeline as listed above on more than one account. I moved your original topic into free speech because it was posted into an inappropriate fora. It was posted into the "Imminst update" fora. I saw this an attempt to dismantle the reputation of the institute and hence I acted.

With respect to moving the thread out of Inminst update, no real issue on that. It properly should be in the freedom forum, except such a forum does not currently exist. I however reposted it in the Politics & Law section, hardly a more appropriate place to discuss a constitution infirmary, would you not agree Zoolander?

With respect to By Laws A, they do not apply to the Freedom Forum, for that matter; neither does the Posting Guide lines.
Bylaw A

· Free Speech Forum: ImmInst will reserve a forum for the expression of free speech. This forum will be named the “Free Speech Forum”. ImmInst will not restrict speech in this forum in so far as speech remains lawful as enforced by the United States government. Members who visit the Free Speech Forum should be prepared to tolerate objectionable material.
· Disclaimer: ImmInst cannot be held responsible for problems associated with any ideas or suggestions made and found in the forums and/or in any correspondence in association with ImmInst. All recommendations for supplement intake, bodily enhancement and/or augmentation, etc. should be considered with caution. Individuals are advised to seek advice from a qualified physician before acting upon any recommendations.

Yes and I moved it for a reason however, you repost it to antagonise the situation further.

I have reposted it to keep it in the active topics, a function that doesn’t currently apply to the sub forum “Free Speech.” I’m sure it would serve your purpose better if the matter got less attention, all the more reason for you to prefer having it in the limited sub-forum.

Section 4 -- Navigators

1. Responsibility

Navigators moderate individual electronic forum(s) on ImmInst's website. Moderation includes the starting and closing of discussions, editing contributions where appropriate and helping inexperienced contributors and members.

Once again, that does not apply to the Freedom Forum.

Finally, I gave you your first warning for reposting a topic. I must you warn you again. Please do not repost topics that have been moderated for reasons outlined in the Immortality Institute Constitution & Bylaws.

Oh Yeah, I got your threatening PM “First Warning”, and your 2nd Warning PM “Warning for Reposting”.
I won’t currently post the contents of you threatening PM’s, but I will post my reply in part.

I asked of you, “Oh, and Zoolander, what does the 2nd warning entail?”

In another response I said, “What do you intend to do about it? Is this warning number 2??? What happens at warning number 3? Isn't the section under "Law" the most appropriate place to discuss constitutional issues? Where else should I post? I would of course post in the “Freedom Forum", but that forum doesn’t exist anymore.”

Well, I asked you what you intended to do about it, and this morning I don’t seem to be able to post. I asked Mind to check into this matter, and apparently “someone” had changed my settings. Mind attempted to reset my membership details/access, but if he had to reset them than it follows that someone with the power to do so, restricted my access in the first place. Any guess as to whom might have done that. Care to step up to the plate and take responsibility for that one,,, Zoolander?

[Athanasios]

Again I am closing this topic. All suggestions on policy and procedures should go here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=22872

All complaints of actions by individuals in leadership should be PMed to the Executive Director, Chief Navigator, or another member of leadership to be worked out in a procedural fashion. This allows us to review the situation and if needed be able to fix policies and procedures to make sure any of the same problems do not arise in the future.

[Shannon Vyff]

Again I am closing this topic. All suggestions on policy and procedures should go here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=22872

All complaints of actions by individuals in leadership should be PMed to the Executive Director, Chief Navigator, or another member of leadership to be worked out in a procedural fashion. This allows us to review the situation and if needed be able to fix policies and procedures to make sure any of the same problems do not arise in the future.

By request I opened it, I think we should however continue the debate in the above thread started by CNorwood as it is devoid of the hostilities that occurred within this thread, I'd like the debate to stick to the ImmInsts constitution, our personal opinions and the issue of opening the 'Free Speech Forum', yet with all following ImmInsts posting guidelines that stipulate we refrain from personal attacks, posting PM's etc.

Also, please follow CNorwood's request to follow proper policy for complaints.

[Shannon Vyff]

We are sorry that your posting got a warning, that automatically sets your posts into a moderator queue line, but that has been lifted now--so lets proceed with the debate about the Free Speech Forum without engaging in personal attacks, and if you still have a problem with a navigator please take it to the executive director, or someone in leadership. I'm happy to help with your further concerns as well

[thefirstimmortal]

All of my posts for the last few days have been censored. Oh, they call subject to moderator approval, but let’s face it, that’s censorship, and prior restraint. All but one post got thru, even several posts that were sent to the free speech forum never made it.

It appears that the Navigators here feel free to ignore the Imminst constitution What good is having a constitution if at any time it may be ignored by those intended to be restrained by it? The constitution was set up to limit the Navigators, at least in the free speech forum. The distinction, between limited and unlimited powers, is abolished, if those limits do not confine the persons on whom they are imposed.

The powers of the Navigators to censor speech are defined, and limited, and that those limits may not be mistaken, or forgotten, the Imminst constitution was written.

[thefirstimmortal]

POSTED UNDER THREAT OF CENSORSHIP.

I'm glad to see that First Immortal is here and posting, hopefully this means his health has improved .

I would love to tell you I’m doing fine Shannon, but that’s not the case. To save me a little typing I’ll just cut and paste my last letter to my friend Lazarus long
Hi Laz,
How am I doing. My tumor was shrunk down fairly small by the end of April. I ran out of vitamins about the time I got out of jail. Since then, the tumor is growing at an alarming and savage pace. I am coughing up blood, having problems swallowing as the tumor has enlarged to cut off my esophagus, vomiting, weight drifted down to 135, back pain from the tumor pressing against my back break, lymph nodes swollen, and the cancer is eating my leg bone again. In short Laz, I'm not doing well.
In short Shannon, I’m dying, and at a fast pace. The prognosis that sets my death at this October seems to be an all to accurate one, and I don’t have the resources to mount an attack against it with alternative therapies.

It must be quite a shock to see some important parts of ImmInst be so different for First Immortal,

The site looks almost exactly as it did when I left it. All except the absence of the freedom forum.

the current policy regarding the Free Speech Forum is a good issue to debate and possibly implement change, but let us please do this without becoming upset at the people who do not readily agree with us.

There is no policy regarding the Free Speech Forum. No policy can alter the constitution. You can all change the constitution if you all want, but that’s what your going to have to do. Or, of course, in the alternative everyone can just keep ignoring it, as seems to be the new custom here. Of course, if your going to do that, why bother with a constitution in the first place?

Live Long and Well

[zoolander]

your post have not been censored. You were put on moderation watch because of a repeat offense. This is not uncommon.

Exaggeration of the situation is not helping this discussion move forward. Now, as previously mentioned, this discussion has been moved to a a new thread that aims to address your concerns.

[Shannon Vyff]

I am very sorry Bill, thank you for sharing--it is quite a lot to handle, in a forum devoted to life extension and is hard to hear. You have contributed so much to ImmInst, and anyone that is new to The First Immortal is encouraged to do a search and read some of his posts from years back when he was first a member here. I do hope Bill, that you can still share with us some--and please let us know if your cryonics arrangements are secure. It is good that you have brought up the issue of the Free Speech forum not being implemented as ImmInst's constitution stipulates, that is something that we can fix and perhaps you would like to be its moderator--as it is a forum that of course will require very little moderation

On your treatments, hopefully you can find some use here--but there are also many cancer patient support sites, maybe you could find one for people dealing with the same sort of cancer?

I'm sorry as well for all the pain you are in, I empathize. I hope you are getting some adequate treatment through the medical system, as well as being able to implement some alternative therapies on your own, going onto a macrobiotic diet is something you could do in an inexpensive way.

Do take care, and your ImmInst community appreciates all you've done to help build ImmInst, and appreciates your views now in how we can be doing a better job, thank you.

[thefirstimmortal]

POSTED UNDER THREAT OF CENSORSHIP.
Out of respect for cnorwoods restriction on his thread “Note: This is not the place to bring up past incidences or to engage in personal attacks.” I have posted my response in my thread, where no such restriction applies...

Rather than being condescending with your approach be proactive. For example the above 2 sentences would have been a lot more productive in maintaining a friendly climate if you didn't include the first the sentence.

I’m sorry Zoolander, I find it difficult to take etiquette advice from some who called me a troll 2 days ago.

Cnorwood wrote

your post have not been censored.

Yes they have. Yes they were, they were sent, several times and some moderator refused to post them. They are only there now because a director got the moderator function off. Now you all want to cover up all the abuses of your power (speacking collectively not directly at you), no one really wants to step up to the plate to take responsibility for their actions.
While we are on the topic of censorship, you keep censoring my topic by locking it out. I’ll give you credit, your doing it and letting it be known, and I do appreciate that. But what gives you the right to take over my thread, and decide for yourself that you’re going to start your own thread, with more restrictive posting rules than the sites guidelines. That display of power was rude. Instead of trying to win attention to your thread by persuasion, you did it by force. You need to stop locking out my thread. What was your justification for locking out my thread? I had Mind unlock it a few times and Shannon a few times also, yet you decided that we were not free to post on my thread. Do you think this is a proper use of your power?
We, who were posting on the thread were all not free to post there anymore. I can’t think of a clearer example of censorship, not allowing a speaker to speak.

You were put on moderation watch because of a repeat offense.

And what great offence did I commit that submitted me to your collective babysitting?

Exaggeration of the situation is not helping this discussion move forward. Now, as previously mentioned, this discussion has been moved to a new thread that aims to address your concerns.

Yes, King Cnorwood, we shall all follow you to your new thread.

[Shannon Vyff]

Ok, Bill--please edit out your personal attack on cnorwood, he was trying to create a thread where we can discuss the issue of the free speech forum, without any hostility.

The navigators did not know about your history with ImmInst, and now they do--we are sorry that you have been censored--please realize that anyone using personal attacks though, will be censored.

You are able to now speak, so let us please discuss the issue of the free speech forum--and let the transgressions of the past day's postings, pass. Your time is valuable, and I hate to see it being spent arguing here, there is important work to be done.

[thefirstimmortal]

Ok, Bill--please edit out your personal attack on cnorwood,

Shannon, what parts do you consider to be personal attacks on cnorwood?

[thefirstimmortal]

POSTED UNDER THREAT OF CENSORSHIP.

The navigators did not know about your history with ImmInst, and now they do--we are sorry that you have been censored--please realize that anyone using personal attacks though, will be censored.

Shannon, my history with Imminst shouldn’t really matter. Would all this censorship and abuse have been more acceptable had I been a new member and first time poster? And lifetime member shows up under my avatar and over 3,000 posts (although I left here with well over 5,000 so that’s another issue I will need to check into). I’m assuming these guys are intelligent enough to know that I didn’t just roll off the web, pony up 500 dollars one day to come in and just check the site out.
As for a light history lesson, cause I know some of these navigators came here in my absence while is was in jail, let me round it out. More years ago than I can remember, I had a yahoo chat group on immortality that grew to many members and we had about 1,600 posts a week. Laz found BJ Klien site, which was far better than the yahoo posting site. We invited everyone to come over, but the group basically fizzled out. I think Laz and I are the only original members left from that site. I’ve been on this site pretty much since the beginning.
I was pushed into a position at one point, oh, I don’t remember if it was Navigator or advisor or whatever. But for the most part I’ve just been a regular old member.

[thefirstimmortal]

Sheperd wrote

The original thread in Free Speech opened the door for libel.

Whatever may be the wisdom of an approach that would accept exceptions to the plain language of our Constitution based on such things as “libel” or “obscenity”, such is not the issue in this case. For you surely could not contend that the kind of speech involved in this instance falls outside the protection of our constitution, however narrowly you wish to interpret it. So the only issue presently before us is whether speech and expression that must be well within the protection of our constitution should be given the complete protection it deserves, or whether it is entitled only to such protection as is consistent in the mind of Zoolander.

[Shannon Vyff]

The 'King Norwood' part is sarcastic and not necessary of course. I'd appreciate it if that was taken out. Thank you for putting in the additional information, I did not know that bit of the history. Any new person discussing the constitution or the running of ImmInst would be accepted, they would be censored if they post ad-hominem attacks. Please do not attribute that you know what one of the navigators is thinking or what their intent is, they are here because they are support extreme life extension and they help to maintain our community--they are here to help you too, and to implement these changes to the forum that you are pushing for. Mind is in agreement with you, and we need to be discussing those issues that you want to see changed, such as the Free Speech Forum and leave out the singling of individual navigators or members of leadership. If you have a problem with someone's behavior, please complain by PM to me, or someone else in leadership so the issue can be resolved in a more diplomatic manner without anyone feeling affronted. The issue of you being censored should be behind us now, as your warnings have been removed and you are now welcome to continue contributing to the education of our community.

[Ben]

I am very sorry Bill, thank you for sharing

Seconded, I was sorry to read what you wrote. I think you'll be a very fair moderator in that forum.

[zoolander]

thefirstimmortal, re. the me calling you a troll. Without going into the samantics I think we all know that a troll is someone surfing the net looking for trouble/an argument. Believe it or not the comment was meant to be an observation. I should have phrased it as "you appear to be trolling for an arguement" because it was an observation. I shouldn't have labelled you. I apologize.