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My crazed thoughts on Capitalism vs. Socialism


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34 replies to this topic

#31 Lazarus Long

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 11:38 AM

Please don't send more people back to the woods Jace. Urban sprawl is doing much more harm than good, and most of these people that try to get back to the land are a hazard to themselves and those of us that are back there.

Every time some yahoo from the city thinks they want to return to a survival mode it means more and wider roads, extended logging, disrupted water tables, infrastructure support in their names (like police/ fire/ambulance/schools etc) and a shopping mall were there once was forest and prairie.

All too often what we end up with is a bunch crazed loonies who shoot one anothers' dogs and livestock thinking they are game. That is when they don't shoot themselves first. Couldn't you all just work to make the cities more habitable?

#32 Jace Tropic

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 12:03 PM

You're probably right. I hope if anything the information that can be found via the links would be good for anyone to fall back on, or at least to have that sense of security under bad circumstances. As you indicate, people who are moderately contentious with the way of the world generally would need more than primitive means on which to fall back. To anyone listening, if you have a bad attitude, refresh your memory with some courses in economics, government, and world history. However, I would still not ignore gaining any available knowledge on how to survive in an uncivilized world.

#33 Lazarus Long

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 03:54 PM

The information is wonderful Jace I wasn't being critical of the intent only of the result. It is such a beautiful example of the highway to hell.

The back to the land, back to nature movement is exemplary of how a good idea results in a bad product. The irony is that while the awareness and appreciation would be wonderful the result of more and more people trying to return to the land has had exactly the opposite effect of what the proponents claim is their intent. It destroys that which they claim to value, desire, and would ostensibly seek to preserve, the land itself. That is when it doesn't deteriorate into irrational mysticism that disqualifies itself from legitimacy and makes the positions held untenable for debate.

To add to your list of reading I suggest the Foxfire Book Series on Appalachian craft. It is a compendium of numerous books that have been in print for a few decades now collecting the traditional methods for survival outside the grid.

One example of the same trend as what is at work now in environmentalism is seen historically in the understanding that it was in the name of the very pilgrims and quakers seeking refuge from the empire that the empire spread itself around the world. It was they that betrayed unwittingly the Native Americans by sincerely seeking peace only to have subsequent colonists betray that trust and exploit it to the detriment of the native populations.

Is it any wonder that all too many people around the world see those that seek to assist our western interests as quislings, and our ways as usurping theirs? History demonstrates that they have reason to be suspicious.

Environmentalism and its history is a fascinating study onto itself actually. Especially as the movement is the darling bastard child of the extreme wealthy elite and should be scrutinized more closely by all concerned especially those sincerely interested in preserving the environment.

BTW, the history of environmentalism is even worse in many socialist and formally communist countries and the general treatment of native populations by most dominant socialist movements and governments has been even more egregious and heavy handed than the Industrial Capitalists, so please I hope everyone can begin to see beyond stereotypes here.

Oh and as for some of the countries that claim to be Democratic Socialist states, how come many of them still have functional monarchies like Sweden etc?

Like I said Darktr00per these are vast problems that are miles wide but only a few ever bother to look more than a few inches deep.

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#34 imminstmorals

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 09:31 AM

Capital is not the issue and market laws are predicated on the general species demand for resources


All I can say that
Law and government are closely related, the reinforcement of law can bring equality, stability.
Let's see what will happen, the rest of world is watching !~~

So far, the war with Iraq and terrorist, and dominant nature of captalist american didn't gain any sympathy from majority of the civilisation around the world.

Let's face it, no one needs to say or do anything~!!!

#35 imminstmorals

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 09:37 AM

By the way, who said Adolf Hitler is fully bad, inhumane? Who said Narxism is all bad?

read Adolf Hitler's biography, anarchy captalist is bad!~

Who is the position? American!~~
I swear I would never understand why American loves Jewish so much......




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