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Creating first stack


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#1 Dom

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 08:54 PM


I'm 21, male and weigh about 75kgs (175lbs)

L-tyrosine
5-HTP
EPA
DHA
Lipoic Acid + ALCAR
Spirulina
Piracetam
Vitamin C +++
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B complex
Vitamins; D and E

MAYBE

Creatine
Resveratrol

I would like some advice, firstly how much do you reccomend I take of each, especially considering I will be taking them all in combination. I already know a few things; like I'll aim to be taking about a gram of vitamin C daily and not to take L-tyrosine and 5-htp at the same time, probably take one in the morning and one before bed.

Secondly will any of those be hard to find or obtain? I live in the UK and I'm not looking for places to buy, just want to know whether they will be easy to buy.

Thanks,
Dom

#2 Dom

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 01:26 AM

shameless bump

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#3 bgwithadd

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 06:45 AM

What is the point of your stack? What are the doses?

It's hard to make much judgement if we don't know that.

Tyrosine gives me lots of trouble, and does not mix well with medications especially MAOIs. I don't think you honestly need it at all and it's counterproductive probably unless you have ADHD.

Instead of ALA or perhaps in addition, why not some high quality fish oil with 2 to one or higher epa to dpa? I have experience a lot of stabilizing effect and increased concentration from it, not to mention better skin and nails. I take 6 grams a day and it works wonders.

5-htp - is great for bedtime

Vitamin b - 50mg of b6 at least once per day. A decent 'stress complex' will have this, plus have all the C you need for the day, all in one pill.

Vitamin D - you can go super high on this and it will still be healthy, not sure it will help with anything but nootropic oriented, though.
E - get fish oil with E in it to preserve the fish oil, that should be plenty.


Creatine - if you want to build muscle it does work, but I am not convinced it's good for anything else, or particularly healthy
Resveratrol - what is it?


If you ake the tyrosine, you need to have it on an empty stomach. So if you do that do everything else after eating lunch except for the fish oil and the 5-htp and creatine. Take fish oil 3x a day, 5-htp before bed, and creatine a bit before working out.

#4 luv2increase

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 03:40 PM

Creatine - if you want to build muscle it does work, but I am not convinced it's good for anything else, or particularly healthy



Creatine has been shown to be both healthy and excellent for cognition. It should definitely be considered a nootropic in my book.

#5 Dom

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:17 PM

Well the purpose of the stack is for a mood lift and giving my brain everything it needs (increased blood flow/oxygen, nerve stimulation, growth and nerve protection.).

Anyone know if Rhodiola Rosea works well with 5-HTP?

#6 luv2increase

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:47 AM

Anyone know if Rhodiola Rosea works well with 5-HTP?



For what? Bedtime :) If so, which I hope not, the answer would be why and no.

Do you need 5-htp to sleep or something? If so, I'd throw it out and replace it with melatonin.

#7 Connor MacLeod

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 11:20 AM

Creatine - if you want to build muscle it does work, but I am not convinced it's good for anything else, or particularly healthy



Creatine has been shown to be both healthy and excellent for cognition. It should definitely be considered a nootropic in my book.


Is there any particular form of creatine that is preferable for this purpose?

#8 luv2increase

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 07:15 PM

Creatine - if you want to build muscle it does work, but I am not convinced it's good for anything else, or particularly healthy



Creatine has been shown to be both healthy and excellent for cognition. It should definitely be considered a nootropic in my book.


Is there any particular form of creatine that is preferable for this purpose?



No.

#9 NickCallaway

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 09:27 PM

Creatine - if you want to build muscle it does work, but I am not convinced it's good for anything else, or particularly healthy



Creatine has been shown to be both healthy and excellent for cognition. It should definitely be considered a nootropic in my book.


I took creatine a few years back when I was preparing for the GRE exam. I suppose it helped me, but I have a suspicion that it caused me to gain a bunch of weight. Is anyone familiar with this possible side-effect? I dont work out. Never did.

#10 luv2increase

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 01:08 AM

I have a suspicion that it caused me to gain a bunch of weight. Is anyone familiar with this possible side-effect? I dont work out. Never did.



A very well-known fact is that is causes you to gain water weight. This is especially true for the monohydrate version. It quickly disappears after cessation.

#11 Ben

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:42 AM

Creatine Monophos. helped with my short term retention. Memory retention that is, I never retained water.

#12 dopamine

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:35 AM

I'm 21, male and weigh about 75kgs (175lbs)

L-tyrosine
5-HTP
EPA
DHA
Lipoic Acid + ALCAR
Spirulina
Piracetam
Vitamin C +++
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B complex
Vitamins; D and E

MAYBE

Creatine
Resveratrol

I would like some advice, firstly how much do you reccomend I take of each, especially considering I will be taking them all in combination. I already know a few things; like I'll aim to be taking about a gram of vitamin C daily and not to take L-tyrosine and 5-htp at the same time, probably take one in the morning and one before bed.

Secondly will any of those be hard to find or obtain? I live in the UK and I'm not looking for places to buy, just want to know whether they will be easy to buy.

Thanks,
Dom


What effect on your mood are you trying to achieve with the addition of spirulina? I would skip the extra B6 and stick with a B-complex. Creatine would be a good addition, 1-3 g should be fine (it's cheap in the generic monohydrate form). I don't know what resveratol would do positively for mood, it seems to exert the opposite for some people. Vitamin E isn't really necessary for a stack aimed primarily at increasing mood, IMO. Also, consider SAMe as a possible addition.

#13 brotherx

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:14 AM

Hi Dom,

rethink your intake of Vitamin D - there are some serious risks associated with too much Vitamin D

Vitamin D and Risks

What is the health risk of too much vitamin D?
There is a high health risk associated with consuming too much vitamin D. Vitamin D toxicity can cause nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, constipation, weakness, and weight loss. It can also raise blood levels of calcium, causing mental status changes such as confusion. High blood levels of calcium also can cause heart rhythm abnormalities. Calcinosis, the deposition of calcium and phosphate in soft tissues like the kidney can be caused by vitamin D toxicity.

Consuming too much vitamin D through diet alone is not likely unless you routinely consume large amounts of cod liver oil. It is much more likely to occur from high intakes of vitamin D in supplements. The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine considers an intake of 1,000 IU for infants up to 12 months of age and 2,000 IU for children, adults, pregnant, and lactating women to be the tolerable upper intake level. Daily intake above this level increases the risk of adverse health effects and is not advised.
http://healthlink.mc.../982088787.html - National Institutes of Health
Vitamin D and risks

Excess vitamin D, on the other hand, can accelerate bone resorption. In patients referred to a bone clinic, 4 patients with high 25(OH)D levels (53-89 ng/ml) from dietary supplements had hypercalciuria and osteoporosis, and the bone density improved over 3 years after they stopped their supplements.
http://courses.washi...hys/opvitD.html

Cheers

Alex

I'm 21, male and weigh about 75kgs (175lbs)

L-tyrosine
5-HTP
EPA
DHA
Lipoic Acid + ALCAR
Spirulina
Piracetam
Vitamin C +++
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B complex
Vitamins; D and E

MAYBE

Creatine
Resveratrol

I would like some advice, firstly how much do you reccomend I take of each, especially considering I will be taking them all in combination. I already know a few things; like I'll aim to be taking about a gram of vitamin C daily and not to take L-tyrosine and 5-htp at the same time, probably take one in the morning and one before bed.

Secondly will any of those be hard to find or obtain? I live in the UK and I'm not looking for places to buy, just want to know whether they will be easy to buy.

Thanks,
Dom



#14 luv2increase

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:50 PM

rethink your intake of Vitamin D - there are some serious risks associated with too much Vitamin D



What in the world are you talking about??? He didn't give any indication that he was taking an exuberant amount of Vitamin D. The discussion on vitamin D has been talking about in depth here upon the forums.


Conclusion: Just keep your vitamin D intake preferably at or below 4000IU daily. I myself take 1000IU of supplemental d3 daily. Vitamin D is great; no one should rethink their supplementation of it.

Edited by luv2increase, 21 August 2008 - 07:51 PM.


#15 bgwithadd

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 08:01 PM

People who live in sunny climes get 20000 units a day. There is some risk if you have way, way too much or are constantly in the sun, but vitamin D is probably one of the most underadministered vitamis out there.

#16 hamishm00

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:56 PM

rethink your intake of Vitamin D - there are some serious risks associated with too much Vitamin D



What in the world are you talking about??? He didn't give any indication that he was taking an exuberant amount of Vitamin D. The discussion on vitamin D has been talking about in depth here upon the forums.


Conclusion: Just keep your vitamin D intake preferably at or below 4000IU daily. I myself take 1000IU of supplemental d3 daily. Vitamin D is great; no one should rethink their supplementation of it.


I agree 1000%. Especially with recent studies linking vitamin D deficiencies to cancer. I try and get 2000IUs a day, especially since I like in a place without much sunshine.

#17 brotherx

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 04:52 PM

I would always say it depends.

If you are living for example in Alaska - getting not enough exposure to the sun - and do not get enough Vitamin D from food - Vitamin D can be a good choice.
If you are living in France or in California - getting exposed to the sun - you might not need additional Vitamin D.

The best way to protect your health is to eat a balanced diet and to get all the vitamins you need from your food

How much vitamin D do I need?
According to the University of Michigan Health System:

"If you have been told to take a vitamin D supplement, a dose between 400-800 International Units (IU) per day is safe and potent. Older patients should take the 800 IU/day dose. Almost all multivitamins contain 400 IU/day. Also, many vitamin D supplements can be bought at most drug stores, food stores, and health food stores. Many calcium supplements also contain vitamin D in the right amount."

-----

Other Vitamins such as Vitamin E, Vitamin A can increase mortality - according to a study from 2007 - ""Mortality in Randomized Trials of Antioxidant Supplements for Primary and Secondary Prevention; Systematic Review and Meta-analysis."

Vitamin supplements taken by millions of people every day for their health could be increasing their risk of death a new Danish-led study suggests.
The study is published in the Journal of the American Medical Association
The international research team reviewed the published evidence on beta carotene, vitamin A, vitamin E, Vitamin C and selenium. The team was led by Dr Goran Bjelakovic, from Copenhagen University Hospital, Denmark.

These dietary supplements are marketed as antioxidants and people take them in the hope they will improve health and guard against diseases like cancer and heart disease by eliminating the free radicals that cause "oxidative stress" and damage and kill off cells.
Antioxidants are also marketed as anti-aging products because they are thought to slow down the aging process.
Some studies have suggested that antioxidants are beneficial to health, while others, mostly larger clinical trials, have concluded they have no effect on health and say in some cases that taking too many of them can be harmful.

In this study, Dr Bjelakovic and colleagues did a meta-analysis on research published before October 2005.
Meta-analysis is a way of sifting through published studies against a quality standard that looks at a number of reliability criteria such as potential for bias. Then the ones that pass the standard are taken through a statistical process to find out if they are saying something consistently reliable. There can be several levels of "sifting", each producing a more reliable and robust set of evidence.

In this case the researchers followed a method established by the Cochrane Collaboration, a group of 6,000 health care specialists who review biomedical trials and other research projects.
They started with 815 clinical trials of which 68 passed the first level of quality standard. At this level the results were inconclusive. The supplements were found to have no effect on death risk one way or the other.
They then went back and eliminated 21 of the trials, leaving only the "low-bias" ones. This was the next level of quality standard.
At this level of meta-analysis the results were different.
When looked at separately they found that Vitamin A increased death risk by 16 per cent, beta carotene by 7 per cent and Vitamin E by 4 per cent. The results for Vitamin C were not so clear, but by looking at the best quality trials there was a suggestion that it increased death risk by 6 per cent, either on its own or in combination with other supplements.

The figures from the best quality trials on selenium however showed that it might reduce death risk by 10 per cent, either on its own or in combination with other supplements, but this was not found to be statistically significant.
The overall conclusion of the study was that on balance, the best quality research shows that beta carotene, vitamin A and vitamin E may increase mortality risk, but vitamin C and selenium need further study.

A spokesperson for the supplements industry said the research was "flawed" because it included studies conducted on people who were already very sick.
The researchers say there are several potential reasons for these results. One is that the free radicals that are thought to cause the oxidative stress are the byproduct rather than the cause of disease. Another is that they may play an important role in the immune system and eliminating them could be counterproductive.

The researchers pointed out that the studies they examined only used synthetic supplements, and therefore their observations and conclusions do not apply to natural antioxidants such as those found in fruit and vegetables.

They added however that this study is important for public health reasons because between 10 and 20 per cent of people in Europe and North America take dietary supplements.
Nutritionists say that instead of taking supplements the best way to protect your health is to eat a balanced diet and to get all the vitamins you need from your food."

The full meta analysis can be found here: http://jama.ama-assn...tract/297/8/842


Sources:

University of Michigan Health System http://www.med.umich...des/calcium.htm
Organic consumer http://www.organicco...rticle_4321.cfm
JAMA http://jama.ama-assn...tract/297/8/842


Cheers

Alex

rethink your intake of Vitamin D - there are some serious risks associated with too much Vitamin D



What in the world are you talking about??? He didn't give any indication that he was taking an exuberant amount of Vitamin D. The discussion on vitamin D has been talking about in depth here upon the forums.


Conclusion: Just keep your vitamin D intake preferably at or below 4000IU daily. I myself take 1000IU of supplemental d3 daily. Vitamin D is great; no one should rethink their supplementation of it.



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#18 brotherx

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 05:04 PM

Hi Dom,

why are you going for Vitamin B6?

Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) deficiency is unusual in humans. On the other hand:

"The key adverse effect, for vitamin B6 is neuropathy, which has been demonstrated in both humans and
laboratory animals. The effect occurs after consumption of high doses and/or long duration. Generally
the symptoms are reversible once the exposure is stopped but in some cases involving high doses, the
effects are irreversible. Progressive sensory ataxia occurs, presenting initially as unstable gait and numb
feet, then numbness in the hands, followed by profound impairment of position sense and vibration
sense in the distal limbs. The senses of touch, temperature and pain are less affected.
Data from animal studies also demonstrate neurotoxicity, although some species differences are
apparent. Doses as low as 50 mg/kg bw/day have been associated with a loss of myelin. Subtle effects
such as changes in startle response have also been observed. The animal data also suggest that duration
of exposure is important in the response to vitamin B6"

Source: Berger, A.R., Schaumburg, H.H., Schroeder, C., Apfel, S., Reynolds, R. (1992) Dose response, coasting, and
differential fibre vulnerability in human toxic neuropathy: a prospective study of pyridoxine
neurotoxicity. Neurology 42, 1367-1370.

Please find a detailed overview attached

Cheers

Alex

I'm 21, male and weigh about 75kgs (175lbs)

L-tyrosine
5-HTP
EPA
DHA
Lipoic Acid + ALCAR
Spirulina
Piracetam
Vitamin C +++
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B complex
Vitamins; D and E

MAYBE

Creatine
Resveratrol

I would like some advice, firstly how much do you reccomend I take of each, especially considering I will be taking them all in combination. I already know a few things; like I'll aim to be taking about a gram of vitamin C daily and not to take L-tyrosine and 5-htp at the same time, probably take one in the morning and one before bed.

Secondly will any of those be hard to find or obtain? I live in the UK and I'm not looking for places to buy, just want to know whether they will be easy to buy.

Thanks,
Dom

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