40 replies to this topic

[Leo]

What's the best way to boost dopamine in the brain? Should i take Tyrosine, DLPA (D,L-phenylalanine) or Mucuna Pruriens? Braverman's book seems to favor DLPA because it says it's better absorbed than Tyrosine and causes fewer headaches. Other books favor Mucuna. Please advise.

[4eva]

Both DLPA and macuna work well in the beginning.

[SynaEsthetiX]

DLPA+ deprenyl. a recommendation based on subjective experience, and speculation.

[Advanc3d]

Both DLPA and macuna work well in the beginning.

Mucuna is levodopa, its not good to take in the long run

[dopamine]

NADH increases tetrahydrobiopterin (1) - an essential cofactor in the functioning of tyrosine hydroxylase, which should help in getting the most out of any L-Tyrosine supplementation. L-Phenylalanine, IMO, is not superior to L-Tyrosine in increasing brain levels of dopamine.

[4eva]

NADH increases tetrahydrobiopterin (1) - an essential cofactor in the functioning of tyrosine hydroxylase, which should help in getting the most out of any L-Tyrosine supplementation. L-Phenylalanine, IMO, is not superior to L-Tyrosine in increasing brain levels of dopamine.

Can you explain why tyrosine is better than DLPA.

[Connor MacLeod]

NADH increases tetrahydrobiopterin (1) - an essential cofactor in the functioning of tyrosine hydroxylase, which should help in getting the most out of any L-Tyrosine supplementation. L-Phenylalanine, IMO, is not superior to L-Tyrosine in increasing brain levels of dopamine.

This study only found an increase of dopamine in vitro, not in vivo.

[Advanc3d]

NADH increases tetrahydrobiopterin (1) - an essential cofactor in the functioning of tyrosine hydroxylase, which should help in getting the most out of any L-Tyrosine supplementation. L-Phenylalanine, IMO, is not superior to L-Tyrosine in increasing brain levels of dopamine.

This study only found an increase of dopamine in vitro, not in vivo.

we can buy tetrahydrobiopterin as a test chemical
its legal to import nearly everywhere
its hell expensive.
10x 10mg = $20
10x 50mg = $76

[abelard lindsay]

DLPA is a good dopamine boost. L-Phenylalanine is the kind of thing I take every day though for optimum dopamine production. I would stay away from mucuna which contains L-Dopa. You're better off letting your body turn Tyrosine into L-Dopa at it's own pace...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-dopa

L-DOPA is produced (in the body) from the amino acid tyrosine by the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase.

[mystery]

What's the best way to boost dopamine in the brain? Should i take Tyrosine, DLPA (D,L-phenylalanine) or Mucuna Pruriens? Braverman's book seems to favor DLPA because it says it's better absorbed than Tyrosine and causes fewer headaches. Other books favor Mucuna. Please advise.

I found I liked l-phenylalanine the best out of the three supplements you mention. I'm not sure if I noticed any difference from DL-phenylalanine, or just l-phenylalanine. I felt that phenylalanine offered a more gradual and mild boost in dopaine which felt more smooth.

I noticed a stronger mood lift from tyrosine, and especially mucuna pruriens that I don't like. Also, both of these seemed to increase libido more, and probably alter judgement to some degree. In addition, after taking these for a while (more than a day or so) I just felt edgy, and overstimmed, with probably a reduction in focus. I also felt this on phenylalanine after a while, but it was much more mild.

That being said, I really don't like any of these. I prefer just drinking a glass of milk on an empty stomach. Milk protein (whey) is supposed to offer a fairly complete set of amino acids. I don't notice a strong effect (like what you may notice on tyrosine, phenylalnine, or mucuna prurines), but I generally feel better and more focused, which I think may be due to a healthy balanced set of protien for the brain, in addition to the lactos which will raise blood sugar.

The side effects that I noticed on any of the three supplements you are considering were:
-Increased heart rate. Be carefull if you have heart problems.
-Mild muscle tension in sholders/neck/back (I should note that I am very sensitive to all supplements, and this effect is fairly commone for me)
-Feeling like I just need to do something but without focus or desire to complete goals (like neg. effects from stims). Especially on high doses. More prevalent after taking for a while.
-Anxiety
-Kept me up late at night
-What I will define is like a general drop in "real" mood, and a rise in this artificial sort of feeling of having a better mood

I did seem to get a slight boost in focus initially though, particularly if I refined the dose carefully. Too much, and I would get a generally negative effect, but if I got the dose perfect then I would get a noticeable beneficial effect, particularly on phenylalanine and tyrosine, but not so much on the mucuna pruriens. Also, sometimes I combed it with a small amount of 5-htp or tryptophan, and I found I was more focused and relaxed, which was good for socializing. I must stress though, I refined the combination very carefully, and only took a small amount.

I seem to get simlar effects from NADH alone. I never tried combining NADH with a dopaine precursor. Again, I found I needed to cut it out after a relatively short time though because after a while, I found I just got negative cognitive effects without any boost in focus/learning/memory/LTP.

I am now trying deprenyl which may be a more effective way to boost dopamine without the negative effects.

Hope this helps. I am not trying to offer any advice, just an account of my own personal experience.

[bgwithadd]

tyrosine shoots my blood pressure through the roof. DLPA and l-ohenalalanine don't seem to do anything at all.<br /><br />Mucuna pruriens (dopabean) works extremely well, even one pill is a big, obvious boost. Only problem I've seen is that you get a tolerance quick so don't take too much. If someone has a reason against it, I'd like to know why as I take it every day. I suppose it is stronger, but if you have a genuine deficit then that's a good thing. If you are trying to be supernormal then overdoping yourself is a bad idea as it is easy to make your brain desensitized to dopamine, which is not good at all.

Edited by bgwithadd, 16 August 2008 - 05:40 AM.

[dopamine]

NADH increases tetrahydrobiopterin (1) - an essential cofactor in the functioning of tyrosine hydroxylase, which should help in getting the most out of any L-Tyrosine supplementation. L-Phenylalanine, IMO, is not superior to L-Tyrosine in increasing brain levels of dopamine.

Can you explain why tyrosine is better than DLPA.

L-phenylalanine is just one more step away from dopamine synthesis, if that is your goal. D-Phenylalanine is a enkephalinase inhibitor, with some indication in pain management (preliminary). L-tyrosine is the rate-limited amino acid that is converted to L-Dopa, a closer metabolic step if you will to increased brain dopamine levels.

[Samuraidream]

I'm also curious to hear why Mucuna is not safe/recommended?
Does it downregulate dopamine receptors?

 

 

[Arjuna]

Yes dopamine receptor down regulation.

Mucuna is fine when used sparingly. I take it for public speaking type things. I just took some when I went to a wedding and was able to socialize and dance all day long, which is usually hard for me.

[Galaxyshock]

Mucuna whole herb is actually able to restore endogenous levodopa, DA, NA, serotonin contents in parkinson's disease models. There is a lot more to Mucuna than just L-DOPA, so a low % extract is preferable.

 

Jiaogulan is another interesting herb that restores dopaminergic function.

[ZHMike]

so is there anything that can be used long term that does not down regulate?  

[Samuraidream]

ZHMike, I'm looking for exact same thing. Something that would actually stabilize/upregulate the receptors and the whole dopamine production cycle.

[Galaxyshock]

Cordyceps upregulates dopamine biosynthesis

 

Jiaogulan has restorative effect at dopaminergic system that is impaired from stress for example

 

Maca increases dopamine and noradrenaline levels chronically

 

 

I suggest to start with Cordyceps.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 23 October 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[ZHMike]

Cordyceps upregulates dopamine biosynthesis

 

Jiaogulan has restorative effect at dopaminergic system that is impaired from stress for example

 

Maca increases dopamine and noradrenaline levels chronically

 

 

I suggest to start with Cordyceps.

 

 

Thanks for the help Galaxyshock.. I actually just got some Maca yesterday and I am trying it.  I guess my question is why do some compounds downregulate and others not?  I would imagine that with Maca if you increase DA levels the receptor site would attempt to restore homeostasis by downregulating? Same with Cordyceps if you are increase Dopamine synthesis your body would naturally react by downregulating..  

[Samuraidream]

Cordyceps upregulates dopamine biosynthesis

 

Jiaogulan has restorative effect at dopaminergic system that is impaired from stress for example

 

Maca increases dopamine and noradrenaline levels chronically

 

 

I suggest to start with Cordyceps.

 

 

Thanks for the info!

 

However, I don't seem to be able to find any evidence to support this. Can you elaborate on how Cordyceps and Jiaogulan upregulate dopamine biosynthesis? Would be great if you could share some research/studies with us.

 

[Galaxyshock]

Enhancement of tyrosine hydroxylase expression by Cordyceps militaris

 

This study has attempted to evaluate the effect of cultured fruiting bodies of Cordyceps militaris extract (CME) on the expression of the tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) gene in PC12 cells and rat brain and stomach. Related mRNA levels were determined by the RT-PCR. Protein levels were measured by Western blot and immunohistochemistry. Our results demonstrated CME induced TH gene expression both in vitro and in vivo. Treatment of 10 µg/ml and 20 mg/kg CME to PC12 cells and rat cells yielded significant increases of TH protein levels. Significantly, TH immunoreactive neurons were detected not only in the brain but also in the stomach. TH-immunohistochemical staining was markedly enhanced in animals treated with CME compared to those in the untreated control. These results suggest that CME can upregulate the dopaminergic (DArgic) system, and may contribute to neuroprotection in neurodegenerative diseases.

→ source (external link)

 

Cordyceps is also a MAOB-inhibitor increasing dopamine, while cordycepin may decrease it through adenosine receptors (not sure of this though, but I suspect this is why it's upregulative at DArgic system).

http://omni-health.n...8_part1_eng.pdf

 

If you take cordyceps with caffeine, you may notice how it balances the stimulant effect (caffeine is adenosine receptor antagonist).

 

 

Jiaogulan shows restorative effects at dopamine system at least in certain models:

Neurorestorative in a parkinson's-like damage model: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081

Neuroprotective at dopaminergic neurons: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20615455

Modulating dopamine in a stress model: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23584055

It's not very well researched herb for this purpose though, which is unfortunate.

 

 

I like Doctor's best ultra Cordyceps and Paradise herbs for Jiaogulan.

 

 

Edited by Galaxyshock, 27 October 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Samuraidream]

Enhancement of tyrosine hydroxylase expression by Cordyceps militaris

 

This study has attempted to evaluate the effect of cultured fruiting bodies of Cordyceps militaris extract (CME) on the expression of the tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) gene in PC12 cells and rat brain and stomach. Related mRNA levels were determined by the RT-PCR. Protein levels were measured by Western blot and immunohistochemistry. Our results demonstrated CME induced TH gene expression both in vitro and in vivo. Treatment of 10 µg/ml and 20 mg/kg CME to PC12 cells and rat cells yielded significant increases of TH protein levels. Significantly, TH immunoreactive neurons were detected not only in the brain but also in the stomach. TH-immunohistochemical staining was markedly enhanced in animals treated with CME compared to those in the untreated control. These results suggest that CME can upregulate the dopaminergic (DArgic) system, and may contribute to neuroprotection in neurodegenerative diseases.

→ source (external link)

 

Cordyceps is also a MAOB-inhibitor increasing dopamine, while cordycepin may decrease it through adenosine receptors (not sure of this though, but I suspect this is why it's upregulative at DArgic system).

http://omni-health.n...8_part1_eng.pdf

 

If you take cordyceps with caffeine, you may notice how it balances the stimulant effect (caffeine is adenosine receptor antagonist).

 

 

Jiaogulan shows restorative effects at dopamine system at least in certain models:

Neurorestorative in a parkinson's-like damage model: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081

Neuroprotective at dopaminergic neurons: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20615455

Modulating dopamine in a stress model: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23584055

It's not very well researched herb for this purpose though, which is unfortunate.

 

 

I like Doctor's best ultra Cordyceps and Paradise herbs for Jiaogulan.

 

 

Thanks for the info, Galaxyshock!

But do you feel any different when taking the aforementioned supplements?
I've been taking NOW dopa mucuna for 2 weeks now (3-4 days a week) with an occasional l-tyrosine capsule here and there. I've notice a significantly lowered mood on the days I don't take dopa mucuna, which I suspect to because my dopamine system is all screwed up (that's why I started taking dopa mucuna in the first place). And therefore, I was looking for something to replace dopa mucuna and tyrosine... something that would be beneficial in the long run.

[Godof Smallthings]

Edit: Just noticed Abelard had already posted about L-phenylalanine, so I'll just add a + 1 to his post.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 29 October 2014 - 01:29 PM.

[Area-1255]

Mucuna pruriens, definitely. Also aim for high-normal test levels which helps raise dopamine.

[Samuraidream]

Ok, so I've been cycling Dopa Mucuna from NOW foods lately. This week I took 2 caps on Monday, 2 on Tuesday, 1 on Wednesday... And felt ok/good. Came Thursday, however, I felt a bit more moody. And today (Friday) I'm feeling emotional and had a little crying spell in the morning. Shall I continue taking Mucuna or is it gonna make it even worse long-term? 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Galaxyshock]

Thanks for the info, Galaxyshock!

But do you feel any different when taking the aforementioned supplements?
I've been taking NOW dopa mucuna for 2 weeks now (3-4 days a week) with an occasional l-tyrosine capsule here and there. I've notice a significantly lowered mood on the days I don't take dopa mucuna, which I suspect to because my dopamine system is all screwed up (that's why I started taking dopa mucuna in the first place). And therefore, I was looking for something to replace dopa mucuna and tyrosine... something that would be beneficial in the long run.

 

 

Cordyceps makes me motivated, brings stable energy and increase in libido, sharper mind. I also breath better when using it, it's very pronounced when exercising.

 

Jiaogulan is more subtle, a warming lift in mood, calmness and energy, and a sense of reconnection. Also decreases inflammation and makes my skin better. Vasodilating.

 

Both may lower blood sugar somewhat, so I would start by taking only one. I think you'd like Cordyceps at first.

[Samuraidream]

 

Thanks for the info, Galaxyshock!

But do you feel any different when taking the aforementioned supplements?
I've been taking NOW dopa mucuna for 2 weeks now (3-4 days a week) with an occasional l-tyrosine capsule here and there. I've notice a significantly lowered mood on the days I don't take dopa mucuna, which I suspect to because my dopamine system is all screwed up (that's why I started taking dopa mucuna in the first place). And therefore, I was looking for something to replace dopa mucuna and tyrosine... something that would be beneficial in the long run.

 

 

Cordyceps makes me motivated, brings stable energy and increase in libido, sharper mind. I also breath better when using it, it's very pronounced when exercising.

 

Jiaogulan is more subtle, a warming lift in mood, calmness and energy, and a sense of reconnection. Also decreases inflammation and makes my skin better. Vasodilating.

 

Both may lower blood sugar somewhat, so I would start by taking only one. I think you'd like Cordyceps at first.

 

 

Galaxyshock, you're the best! Thanks for the info.

Can you elaborate on why I'd like Cordyceps first?
The way you describe it, sounds like I'd prefer Jiaogulan first, to be honest.

I might have asked this already in another thread, but which brands do you use for both? And is it ok to throw in an occasional Mucuna (1-2 days a week) in the mix?

 

And one more thing, have you ever tried Uridine? Any thoughts on that?


Thanks in advance for your input.

[Barfly]

 

 

Thanks for the info, Galaxyshock!

But do you feel any different when taking the aforementioned supplements?
I've been taking NOW dopa mucuna for 2 weeks now (3-4 days a week) with an occasional l-tyrosine capsule here and there. I've notice a significantly lowered mood on the days I don't take dopa mucuna, which I suspect to because my dopamine system is all screwed up (that's why I started taking dopa mucuna in the first place). And therefore, I was looking for something to replace dopa mucuna and tyrosine... something that would be beneficial in the long run.

 

 

Cordyceps makes me motivated, brings stable energy and increase in libido, sharper mind. I also breath better when using it, it's very pronounced when exercising.

 

Jiaogulan is more subtle, a warming lift in mood, calmness and energy, and a sense of reconnection. Also decreases inflammation and makes my skin better. Vasodilating.

 

Both may lower blood sugar somewhat, so I would start by taking only one. I think you'd like Cordyceps at first.

 

 

Galaxyshock, you're the best! Thanks for the info.

Can you elaborate on why I'd like Cordyceps first?
The way you describe it, sounds like I'd prefer Jiaogulan first, to be honest.

I might have asked this already in another thread, but which brands do you use for both? And is it ok to throw in an occasional Mucuna (1-2 days a week) in the mix?

 

And one more thing, have you ever tried Uridine? Any thoughts on that?


Thanks in advance for your input.

 

 

I am also interested in discussing uridine for dopamine issues and I am surprised it has somehow gone "out of fashion" and is rarely mentioned in numerous current dopamine related threads.

 

Personally I have had zero success on boosting dopamine or "feeling" anything beneficial using most herbs that are proposed for increasing or normalizing dopamine and I have tried Jiaogulan, berberine and several ginkgo brands (berberine proved beneficial for sugar control and cravings though).

 

The only herb that temporarily improved my mood was mucuna but effects wear out over time.

 

On the other hand mr happy stack (uridine, choline, DHA) gives me moderate but noticeable mood enhancing and stabilizing effect with better focus and general feeling of well being so I am surprised it isn't mentioned more as a useful intervention.

[Samuraidream]

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, Galaxyshock!

But do you feel any different when taking the aforementioned supplements?
I've been taking NOW dopa mucuna for 2 weeks now (3-4 days a week) with an occasional l-tyrosine capsule here and there. I've notice a significantly lowered mood on the days I don't take dopa mucuna, which I suspect to because my dopamine system is all screwed up (that's why I started taking dopa mucuna in the first place). And therefore, I was looking for something to replace dopa mucuna and tyrosine... something that would be beneficial in the long run.

 

 

Cordyceps makes me motivated, brings stable energy and increase in libido, sharper mind. I also breath better when using it, it's very pronounced when exercising.

 

Jiaogulan is more subtle, a warming lift in mood, calmness and energy, and a sense of reconnection. Also decreases inflammation and makes my skin better. Vasodilating.

 

Both may lower blood sugar somewhat, so I would start by taking only one. I think you'd like Cordyceps at first.

 

 

Galaxyshock, you're the best! Thanks for the info.

Can you elaborate on why I'd like Cordyceps first?
The way you describe it, sounds like I'd prefer Jiaogulan first, to be honest.

I might have asked this already in another thread, but which brands do you use for both? And is it ok to throw in an occasional Mucuna (1-2 days a week) in the mix?

 

And one more thing, have you ever tried Uridine? Any thoughts on that?


Thanks in advance for your input.

 

 

I am also interested in discussing uridine for dopamine issues and I am surprised it has somehow gone "out of fashion" and is rarely mentioned in numerous current dopamine related threads.

 

Personally I have had zero success on boosting dopamine or "feeling" anything beneficial using most herbs that are proposed for increasing or normalizing dopamine and I have tried Jiaogulan, berberine and several ginkgo brands (berberine proved beneficial for sugar control and cravings though).

 

The only herb that temporarily improved my mood was mucuna but effects wear out over time.

 

On the other hand mr happy stack (uridine, choline, DHA) gives me moderate but noticeable mood enhancing and stabilizing effect with better focus and general feeling of well being so I am surprised it isn't mentioned more as a useful intervention.

 

I've just ordered Cordyceps.
Gonna try the following stack starting Monday:

 

- Panax Ginseng (daily)

- Cordyceps (daily)

- NOW Dopa Mucuna (1-3 days a week)

- Inositol (3-4 days a week)

 

Will create a new (more detailed) stack thread once I get it going, in case you're interested.
If this stack does not work after 3 weeks or so, I'll try the Uridine-Choline-DHA one then.

Basically, NOW Dopa Mucuna works quite ok, but only on the days I take it, of course. Therefore, I suspect some downregulation in the long run, hence why I'm gonna try adding Cordyceps to my stack in order to upregulate my dopamine receptors.


Any advice is more than welcome.
 

[AMx Workshop]

personally mucun pruriens is too strong for me, it feels a bit like pscilocybin in high doses, but without the hallucinogen effect. i prefer dl-phen and tyrosine.