81 replies to this topic

[RighteousReason]

Here are a small subset of questions nobody in the "Obama mania, moveon.org, mainstream media" will ever ask Barack "Apollo" Obama, God of Truth and Light:

why not agree with no earmarks
why not agree with dont raise tax in a bad economy
why not support drilling, nuclear, oil shale

why would you cut tens of billions in defense spending
slow missile defense and research of future combat systems
meet with terrorists without preconditions
meet with adminhitlerajhad
iran not a threat?
accuse our troops of air raiding villages and killing civilians
against succeeding surge?
why not critize "surge failed, war lost"
why not agree with biden about cutting off iraq funding leads to lives being lost
said you couln't find a single expert that thought the surge would work


-- notes from Sean Hannity show

Edited by Savage, 26 September 2008 - 11:06 PM.

[biknut]

After McCain wipes the floor with Obama again like he did last time at Saddleback Church, tomorrow the major media will all be talking about how Obama won the debate.

[Iam Empathy]

http://obamesque.wor...-tax-proposals/

McCain’s claims that Obama will raise taxes are wrong
Posted on Monday, 7 Jul 2008 by obamesque

In a speech today, Senator John McCain, who admits freely that he doesn’t really understand economics, repeated the misleading attack that “Senator Obama will raise your taxes.”

“We need to keep the IRS from taking more of your income and making life harder for small business. If you believe you should pay more taxes, I am the wrong candidate for you. Senator Obama is your man. The choice in this election is stark and simple. Senator Obama will raise your taxes. I won’t. I will cut them where I can. Jobs are the most important thing our economy creates. When you raise taxes in a bad economy you eliminate jobs. I’m not going to let that happen. Senator Obama’s tax increases will hurt the economy even more, and destroy jobs across this country.”

In reality, Senator Obama’s plan will not raise taxes and will provide a bigger break for middle class Americans than McCain’s plan. As numerous outside observers agree:
McCAIN’S CLAIMS THAT OBAMA WILL RAISE TAXES ARE “WRONG,” “FALSE,” “MISLEADING”Obama Action Wire
Washington Post Fact Checker: McCain Campaign Attacks on Obama Tax Plan “Overblown,” “Wrong,” and “Greatly Exaggerated.”

“The McCain camp is attempting to persuade Americans that their taxes will increase dramatically with Barack Obama as president. The presumptive Republican nominee has repeatedly said that Obama would enact ‘the largest tax increase since the Second World War.’ A surrogate, former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, insists that Obama has not proposed ‘a single tax cut’ and wants to ‘raise every tax in

the book.’ … The claim that Obama will ‘enact’ the largest tax increase since World War II is also overblown. The Bush tax cuts will expire automatically at the end of 2010, so it is hardly a question of ‘enacting’ a new tax increase.

Carly Fiorina is wrong to claim that Obama has proposed no tax cuts and wants to raise ‘every tax in the book.’” [Washington Post, 6/11/08]
Politifact: McCain’s Statement That Obama’s Tax Plan Would Raise Taxes Is False.”

Politifact reported, “So calling it a tax increase might not be considered fair. There’s no disputing that taxes will rise, but the question of who’s responsible for that tax increase is another matter entirely. At PolitiFact, we’ve concluded, as have others, that it’s unfair to call Obama’s plan a tax increase merely because it doesn’t change existing tax law to keep rates low. We think about it this way: The reason taxes will increase is because of tax policy signed into law not by Obama, but by somebody else… the more recent data — combined with the fact that Obama’s proposal does not constitute a tax increase in the traditional sense, since some taxes would be lower under his plan than they would under current law — persuades us to classify McCain’s statement as False.”

[Politifact, 6/11/08]
FactCheck.Org: McCain’s Largest Tax Increase

Charge Wrong and Misleading. According to the Annenberg Public Policy Center’s Factcheck.org:
“By the measure most economists prefer, McCain is wrong in his claim that Sens. Clinton and Obama want to implement “the single largest tax increase since the Second World War;”… At a more basic level, it’s misleading to tag Clinton and Obama for something that was scheduled during the Bush administration – the expiration of the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts, which by law will occur at the end of 2010.”

[Factcheck.org, 5/14/2008]
OBAMA’S TAX PLAN WILL PROVIDE A BIGGER BREAK FOR MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES THAN MCCAIN’S

According to the non partisan Tax Policy Center’s computations, “under Mr. Obama’s plan, the middle of the middle class, or those earning $37,595 to $66,354, would see taxes cut by $1,042 a year. Under Mr. McCain’s plan, taxes for people in that category would also fall, but by $319; the largest chunk of the benefits would go to those making $2.8 million a year or more.”

[New York Times, 6/13/08]
The Obama campaign today released an updated report examining John McCain’s economic agenda in light of his remarks in Denver today. Please find below a summary of the analysis on Senator McCain’s claim that he will balance the budget by 2013. You can view the full report here.

Since this memo was first released, Senator McCain has now announced that he would balance the budget by 2013. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that the unified budget deficit will be $443 billion in 2013 assuming that expiring tax cuts are extended. To balance the budget in that year John McCain would have to pay for all of his campaign proposals plus cut another $443 billion of spending. To give a sense of why this pledge is not credible, cutting spending by $443 billion would require:

* Cutting Medicare by 81 percent OR

* Cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid by 33 percent OR

* Cutting non-defense discretionary spending – which pays for education, veterans, air traffic control and justice – by 79 percent

And these spending cuts would be on top of the hundreds of billions of dollars of spending cuts Senator McCain needs to pay for his existing proposals including: increasing defense spending, cutting corporate taxes, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), and a small tax cut for middle class families with children (a total of $125 for middle class families with 2 children and $0 for 101 million households who do not qualify). The New York Times has estimated that Senator McCain’s budget plan “will add $200 billion to $300 billion or, depending on his voluntary tax system, even more” annually to the deficit.

Without these offsets and spending cuts, the McCain budget would leave a deficit of at least $650 billion to $750 billion in 2013 alone. No wonder so many Republicans are now reporting that they’ll vote for Barack Obama in November.

[biknut]

McCain’s claims that Obama will raise taxes are wrong

Common sense says if you add a trillion dollars in new spending you'll have to raise taxes.

[luv2increase]

McCain’s claims that Obama will raise taxes are wrong

Common sense says if you add a trillion dollars in new spending you'll have to raise taxes.

lol. This is exactly correct. The sad part is Obama wants to spend so much that it will be impossible to pay for all his programs if you doubled the taxes on everybody! And we all know that isn't feasible the way things are going right now...

What does Obama have to work of now; nada thing. I hope McCain puts it to him as well as the naysayers on this here forum.

[biknut]

After McCain wipes the floor with Obama again like he did last time at Saddleback Church, tomorrow the major media will all be talking about how Obama won the debate.

Yep I was right, McCain is making Obama look like a total no experience boob. Does Obama start every sentence by saying ba ba ba, la la la, a a a?

[RighteousReason]

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 02:54 AM.

[niner]

After McCain wipes the floor with Obama again like he did last time at Saddleback Church, tomorrow the major media will all be talking about how Obama won the debate.

Yep I was right, McCain is making Obama look like a total no experience boob. Does Obama start every sentence by saying ba ba ba, la la la, a a a?

Were you watching this through Conservative-Vision or something? This debate was basically a draw, and given that it was supposed to be McCain's night, the advantage probably accrues mildly to Obama.

[luv2increase]

After McCain wipes the floor with Obama again like he did last time at Saddleback Church, tomorrow the major media will all be talking about how Obama won the debate.

Yep I was right, McCain is making Obama look like a total no experience boob. Does Obama start every sentence by saying ba ba ba, la la la, a a a?

I concur. McCain won.

When I think of words to describe Obama now I think; inexperience, naive, doesn't understand, and living in fantasy world....


Why did Obama keep saying he agreed with McCain? That isn't very smart...


Also, McCain saying "no your not" if the President sat down with the Iranian President, and they said they were going to wipe Israel off the map.... Priceless.



Obama's biggest mistake in my opinion was his weird condescending, all too important, & unnerving facial expressions he was giving. He was also doing a lot of leaning backwards and very disrespectful in the way he talked and overall demeanor.


I believe a lot of Independent voters such as myself really will swing with McCain on this one. It is clear that Obama doesn't know what he is doing and would need a lot of "on the job training" so to speak. I don't know about you, but right now we don't need a President that doesn't have the experience to be President.




McCain/Palin 2008!

[niner]

[Savage posts a McCain Campaign instant response commercial]

That was a series of snippets taken totally out of context, so misleading that I would characterize it as a lie. Let's not start posting official campaign commercials here, OK? Don't make ImmInst step in and take action on this.

[biknut]

After McCain wipes the floor with Obama again like he did last time at Saddleback Church, tomorrow the major media will all be talking about how Obama won the debate.

Yep I was right, McCain is making Obama look like a total no experience boob. Does Obama start every sentence by saying ba ba ba, la la la, a a a?

Were you watching this through Conservative-Vision or something? This debate was basically a draw, and given that it was supposed to be McCain's night, the advantage probably accrues mildly to Obama.

Yeah, I saw the same liberal discussion after the debate you did. Do you get all your original thoughts from TV liberal commentators? Right after the debate I switched through all the channels, and on each channel the first word I heard was Obama.

Edited by biknut, 27 September 2008 - 03:10 AM.

[luv2increase]

Yeah, I saw the same liberal discussion after the debate you did. Do you get all your original thoughts from TV liberal commentators? Right after the debate I switched through all the channels, and on each channel the first word I heard was Obama.

Exactly. It is extremely evident that some on this board can't think for themselves and dwell too much on those of others. When it comes to politics, you have to be able to discern the rhetoric from the truth and right from wrong. Those, especially the second one, can't come from the media but your own research and conclusion.

[RighteousReason]

[Savage posts a McCain Campaign instant response commercial]

That was a series of snippets taken totally out of context, so misleading that I would characterize it as a lie. Let's not start posting official campaign commercials here, OK? Don't make ImmInst step in and take action on this.

Priceless typical liberal response. SILENCE THE OPPOSITION! You should run for office.

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 12:14 PM.

[Live Forever]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

TPM and FiveThirtyEight break down the numbers even further, for those interested:
http://tpmelectionce...obama_winni.php
http://www.fivethirt...-obama-won.html

[Live Forever]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

TPM and FiveThirtyEight break down the numbers even further, for those interested:
http://tpmelectionce...obama_winni.php
http://www.fivethirt...-obama-won.html

...and a CBS poll, showing about the same results as the CNN one:
http://www.cbsnews.c...in4482119.shtml

Full CBS poll results (note: pdf file):
http://www.cbsnews.c...2008Debate1.pdf


(Apologies if this is too political geeky)

[biknut]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

Full CBS poll results (note: pdf file):
http://www.cbsnews.c...2008Debate1.pdf


(Apologies if this is too political geeky)

The liberal CBS polled 481 people. Probably most of them Democrats no matter what they say.

The Communist News Network polled 524 people.

Here's a real poll with 263,429 people polled so far. You can still vote in it if you'd like to try to change the results.

http://www.drudgereport.com/#plutonium


{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN.......67% 176,817

OBAMA........31% 80,565

NEITHER........2% 6,047

Total Votes: 263,429

[RighteousReason]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

Full CBS poll results (note: pdf file):
http://www.cbsnews.c...2008Debate1.pdf


(Apologies if this is too political geeky)

The liberal CBS polled 481 people. Probably most of them Democrats no matter what they say.

The Communist News Network polled 524 people.

Here's a real poll with 263,429 people polled so far. You can still vote in it if you'd like to try to change the results.

http://www.drudgereport.com/#plutonium


{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN.......67% 176,817

OBAMA........31% 80,565

NEITHER........2% 6,047

Total Votes: 263,429

If your figures are correct, none of those polls satisfy me from a scientific perspective.

[Shannon Vyff]

It was much of the same, I disliked McCains plays on emotion and fear, also his lack of answering clearly. But, Obama at the same time also would go off track. CNN is way more neutral than Drudge! I had Drudge for my home page in the 90's, my dad is a hard core Republican I was raised with those views--just started asking more questions as I got older, and learned more about economics

[RighteousReason]

gar

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 02:08 PM.

[Lazarus Long]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

Full CBS poll results (note: pdf file):
http://www.cbsnews.c...2008Debate1.pdf


(Apologies if this is too political geeky)

The liberal CBS polled 481 people. Probably most of them Democrats no matter what they say.

The Communist News Network polled 524 people.

Here's a real poll with 263,429 people polled so far. You can still vote in it if you'd like to try to change the results.

http://www.drudgereport.com/#plutonium


{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN.......67% 176,817

OBAMA........31% 80,565

NEITHER........2% 6,047

Total Votes: 263,429

And here is a poll with almost three times as many polled from a far less *biased* sample biknut. It also appears to parallel the majority of the electoral polling around the country. Personally I think the actual debate was one of the better ones in many a year and not particularly decisive for either candidate but the majority seem to think Obama won. I would say they both acquitted themselves responsibly but neither was able to yet step out of the role of politico into that of a true leader, neither said anything particularly decisive nor insightful.

Attached Files

•  1st_Debate.jpg   102.38KB   2 downloads

[RighteousReason]

As far as the numbers go for the debate, CNN has a poll on who Americans thought won the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

Full CBS poll results (note: pdf file):
http://www.cbsnews.c...2008Debate1.pdf


(Apologies if this is too political geeky)

The liberal CBS polled 481 people. Probably most of them Democrats no matter what they say.

The Communist News Network polled 524 people.

Here's a real poll with 263,429 people polled so far. You can still vote in it if you'd like to try to change the results.

http://www.drudgereport.com/#plutonium


{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN.......67% 176,817

OBAMA........31% 80,565

NEITHER........2% 6,047

Total Votes: 263,429

And here is a poll with almost three times as many polled from a far less *biased* sample biknut. It also appears to parallel the majority of the electoral polling around the country. Personally I think the actual debate was one of the better ones in many a year and not particularly decisive for either candidate but the majority seem to think Obama won. I would say they both acquitted themselves responsibly but neither was able to yet step out of the role of politico into that of a true leader, neither said anything particularly decisive nor insightful.

HAHA

You take a poll from MSLGBT and call it FAR LESS BIASED?

ARE YOU INSANE?

*SCIENTIFIC* POLLS, PEOPLE!

[Lazarus Long]

I said less *biased* neither poll is *scientific* if you want to be accurate savage.

MSNBC is a popular news site that is *mainstream* and essentially *centrist,* Drudge is a sample of a group that is already on one side of the issue.

However none of these polls are scientific in structure nor should anyone confuse them for being such. Anyone who claims they are is being disingenuous and frankly deceptive.

[RighteousReason]

I said less *biased* neither poll is *scientific* if you want to be accurate savage.

MSNBC is a popular news site that is *mainstream* and essentially *centrist,* Drudge is a sample of a group that is already on one side of the issue.

However none of these polls are scientific in structure nor should anyone confuse them for being such. Anyone who claims they are is being disingenuous and frankly deceptive.

Bullshit.

MSLGBT is a propaganda machine of the Democrat party.

It is at the heart of the "Obama mania, moveon.org, 'mainstream' media"

"centrist"

What a joke.

Journalism died in 2008.

[Lazarus Long]

MSLGBT is a propaganda machine of the Democrat party.

It is at the heart of the "Obama mania, moveon.org, 'mainstream' media"

"centrist"

What a joke.

Journalism died in 2008.

Your opinion and obviously a biased one at that but it doesn't matter, the closest thing to scientific polls (aside from the actual election that is) will be out soon so we can compare them instead.

I find it amazing how the republicans are panicking and making all kinds of wild and unsubstantiated assertions to try and sway the simple minded.

One thing is sure though, that after the election whoever wins will be working with who ever loses to cope with the mess that 8 years of Bush and 16 years of a Republican dominated congress have yielded, or perhaps the selective memory that the Dem's only got the house and senate back two years ago escapes you.

The current economic and security debacle that this nation finds itself can be squarely laid upon Republican and perhaps more specifically *Neo-Conservative* policy makers.

So now the pendulum swings and in classic American fashion it might swing too far but swing it will nonetheless.

[RighteousReason]

Your opinion and obviously a biased one

hm? what's so biased about that? I think it's an objective fact that the 'mainstream' media has gone completely off to the left and suffers from "Obama mania".

[RighteousReason]

One thing is sure that after the election whoever wins will be working with who ever loses to cope with the mess that 8 years of Bush and 16 years of a Republican dominated congress have yielded, or perhaps the selective memory that the Dem's only got the house and senate back two years ago escapes you. The current economic and security debacle that this nation finds itself can be squarely laid upon Republican and perhaps more specifically *Neo-Conservative* policy makers.

John McCain of all people has put forward legislation to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and has been warning about this for years. The Democrats stopped such legislation along a pure party-line vote.

John McCain's primary focus is to cut the insane spending that Bush and other fallen Republicans have done which is most of the mess you refer to. Barack Obama and the Democrat Congress want expand government spending as much as as they possibly can.

It is the "Neo-" conservative members of Congress that are holding out against the 700 billion dollar Wall Street bail out (and the NEXT one)

I would reach the exact opposite conclusion that you came to.

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 06:02 PM.

[RighteousReason]

Your opinion and obviously a biased one

hm? what's so biased about that? I think it's an objective fact that the 'mainstream' media has gone completely off to the left and suffers from "Obama mania".

Cafferty (of CNN) - “Racism is only explanation for Obama not blowing out McCain.”

There's one of a million examples of the insane liberal media bias that has killed journalism in 2008.

[RighteousReason]

I find it amazing how the republicans are panicking and making all kinds of wild and unsubstantiated assertions to try and sway the simple minded.

Like what? by who?

You are acting like Barack Obama:
"We know what kind of campaign they're going to run. The're going to try to make you afraid."
"They're going to try to make you afraid of me. He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name."
"He doesn't look like all those presidents on the dollar bills and five dollar bills"
"And did I mention he's black?"

No Republican has ever taken this tactic. This is purely Barack Obama playing out this fraud of racism and being a victim.

Similarly, I don't see any "wild, unsubstantiated assertions" being made by Republicans.

Although, from the Democrats...

Florida Democratic Representative Alcee Hastings on Wednesday warned two minority groups to beware of Sarah Palin because “anybody toting guns and stripping moose don’t care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks.”

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 03:29 PM.

[Lazarus Long]

Here is the text of the latest email I receive routinely from Orin Hatch and the RNSC. It is titled *Hanoi Jane*

Of course given the tone of your rhetoric savage I can understand your reluctance to acknowledge that it appears somewhat hysterical. Oh and this one is more rational sounding than some of the previous ones. However I will never again vote for a party that panders to the radical religious right. If I wanted to do that I could go live in Iran.

If the Republicans cannot find their way back to the center they are doomed to follow the Whigs into history.

BTW, I guess I should add that I am a registered republican.

To view this e-mail as a Web page, go here.
National Republican Senatorial Committee
Stop Barack Obama - Donate Today!

Dear Republican Supporter,

You'd think it was the 1970s all over again.

Barack Obama is resurrecting Jimmy Carter's failed tax, energy and economic plans.

Iran is saber-rattling against the West.

And, Hanoi Jane Fonda is stumping for liberal Senate candidates.

That's right, tonight Jane Fonda and all of her far-left Hollywood liberal friends are expected to raise $1 million for Democrat Senate candidates with one goal in mind -- to break our Senate firewall and seize total control of our government!

"Everything now is 'Obama, Obama, Obama,' but we're also concerned about the Senate, which is critically important no matter who wins the White House. We need to give the Democrats a majority totaling at least 60 senators."

These Hollywood liberals understand the stakes. A 60-seat filibuster-proof super majority means conservatives would be powerless to stop the liberal agenda in the Senate.

Hollywood may not be on our side, but we have you.

Our nation stands on the brink of taking a disastrous turn to the left.

We need your help today!

In 2006, we lost three Senate races by just a few thousand votes. In each of those races, at the last minute, liberals flooded the airwaves with nasty, misleading attack ads. We can't afford to leave 2008 to chance and let this happen again.

Can I count on your support?

Unless you dig deep and help us to maintain the Senate firewall, the liberals may very well succeed in their campaign to control our whole country. Therefore, I am asking you to send as much as you can, even $11 will make a difference, to help us fight back.

We need you to step up today.

Remember, you are the only thing that stands in the liberals' way.

Sincerely yours,
Orrin Hatch
Senator Orrin Hatch
Vice Chairman,
National Republican Senatorial Committee

P.S. Two Republican Senators will personally match your contribution dollar-for-dollar -- tripling your impact! Please contribute $11 by midnight Tuesday.

NRSC Website | Make a Contribution
Paid for by the National Republican Senatorial Committee and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
www.nrsc.org

425 2nd Street NE | Washington, DC 20002 | Phone: (202) 675-6000
E-mail: news@gopsenators.com | Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe

Contributions to the National Republican Senatorial Committee are not deductible
as charitable contributions for federal income tax purposes.

[RighteousReason]

hehe...

Edited by Savage, 27 September 2008 - 03:09 PM.