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Inside Obama's ACORN


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#1 luv2increase

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 02:26 AM


I guess Obama has more radical ties than I had previously thought. Who would've guessed?


What if Barack Obama’s most important radical connection has been hiding in plain sight all along? Obama has had an intimate and long-term association with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn), the largest radical group in America. If I told you Obama had close ties with MoveOn.org or Code Pink, you’d know what I was talking about. Acorn is at least as radical as these better-known groups, arguably more so. Yet because Acorn works locally, in carefully selected urban areas, its national profile is lower. Acorn likes it that way. And so, I’d wager, does Barack Obama.

This is a story we’ve largely missed. While Obama’s Acorn connection has not gone entirely unreported, its depth, extent, and significance have been poorly understood. Typically, media background pieces note that, on behalf of Acorn, Obama and a team of Chicago attorneys won a 1995 suit forcing the state of Illinois to implement the federal “motor-voter” bill. In fact, Obama’s Acorn connection is far more extensive. In the few stories where Obama’s role as an Acorn “leadership trainer” is noted, or his seats on the boards of foundations that may have supported Acorn are discussed, there is little follow-up. Even these more extensive reports miss many aspects of Obama’s ties to Acorn.

An Anti-Capitalism Agenda
To understand the nature and extent of Acorn’s radicalism, an excellent place to begin is Sol Stern’s 2003 City Journal article, “ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities.” (For a shorter but helpful piece, try Steven Malanga’s “Acorn Squash.”)

Sol Stern explains that Acorn is the key modern successor of the radical 1960’s “New Left,” with a “1960’s-bred agenda of anti-capitalism” to match. Acorn, says Stern, grew out of “one of the New Left’s silliest and most destructive groups, the National Welfare Rights Organization.” In the 1960’s, NWRO launched a campaign of sit-ins and disruptions at welfare offices. The goal was to remove eligibility restrictions, and thus effectively flood welfare rolls with so many clients that the system would burst. The theory, explains Stern, was that an impossibly overburdened welfare system would force “a radical reconstruction of America’s unjust capitalist economy.” Instead of a socialist utopia, however, we got the culture of dependency and family breakdown that ate away at America’s inner cities — until welfare reform began to turn the tide.

While Acorn holds to NWRO’s radical economic framework and its confrontational 1960’s-style tactics, the targets and strategy have changed. Acorn prefers to fly under the national radar, organizing locally in liberal urban areas — where, Stern observes, local legislators and reporters are often “slow to grasp how radical Acorn’s positions really are.” Acorn’s new goals are municipal “living wage” laws targeting “big-box” stores like Wal-Mart, rolling back welfare reform, and regulating banks — efforts styled as combating “predatory lending.” Unfortunately, instead of helping workers, Acorn’s living-wage campaigns drive businesses out of the very neighborhoods where jobs are needed most. Acorn’s opposition to welfare reform only threatens to worsen the self-reinforcing cycle of urban poverty and family breakdown. Perhaps most mischievously, says Stern, Acorn uses banking regulations to pressure financial institutions into massive “donations” that it uses to finance supposedly non-partisan voter turn-out drives.

According to Stern, Acorn’s radical agenda sometimes shifts toward “undisguised authoritarian socialism.” Fully aware of its living-wage campaign’s tendency to drive businesses out of cities, Acorn hopes to force companies that want to move to obtain “exit visas.” “How much longer before Acorn calls for exit visas for wealthy or middle-class individuals before they can leave a city?” asks Stern, adding, “This is the road to serfdom indeed.”

In Your Face
Acorn’s tactics are famously “in your face.” Just think of Code Pink’s well-known operations (threatening to occupy congressional offices, interrupting the testimony of General David Petraeus) and you’ll get the idea. Acorn protesters have disrupted Federal Reserve hearings, but mostly deploy their aggressive tactics locally. Chicago is home to one of its strongest chapters, and Acorn has burst into a closed city council meeting there. Acorn protestors in Baltimore disrupted a bankers’ dinner and sent four busloads of profanity-screaming protestors against the mayor’s home, terrifying his wife and kids. Even a Baltimore city council member who generally supports Acorn said their intimidation tactics had crossed the line.

Acorn, however, defiantly touts its confrontational tactics. While Stern himself notes this, the point is driven home sharper still in an Acorn-friendly reply to Stern entitled “Enraging the Right.” Written by academic/activists John Atlas and Peter Dreier, the reply’s avowed intent is to convince Acorn-friendly politicians, journalists, and funders not to desert the organization in the wake of Stern’s powerful critique. The stunning thing about this supposed rebuttal is that it confirms nearly everything Stern says. Do Atlas and Dreier object to Stern’s characterizations of Acorn’s radical plans — even his slippery-slope warnings about Acorn’s designs on basic freedom of movement? Nope. “Stern accurately outlines Acorn’s agenda,” they say.

Do Atlas and Dreier dismiss Stern’s catalogue of Acorn’s disruptive and intentionally intimidating tactics as a set of regrettable exceptions to Acorn’s rule of civility? Not a chance. Atlas and Dreier are at pains to point out that intimidation works. They proudly reel off the increased memberships that follow in the wake of high-profile disruptions, and clearly imply that the same public officials who object most vociferously to intimidation are the ones most likely to cave as a result. What really upsets Atlas and Dreier is that Stern misses the subtle national hand directing Acorn’s various local campaigns. This is radicalism unashamed.

But don’t let the disruptive tactics fool you. Acorn is a savvy and exceedingly effective political player. Stern says that Acorn’s key post–New Left innovation is its determination to take over the system from within, rather than futilely try to overthrow it from without. Stern calls this strategy a political version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Take Atlas and Dreier at their word: Acorn has an openly aggressive and intimidating side, but a sophisticated inside game, as well. Chicago’s Acorn leader, for example, won a seat on the Board of Aldermen as the candidate of a leftist “New Party.”

Obama Meets Acorn
What has Barack Obama got to do with all this? Plenty. Let’s begin with Obama’s pre-law school days as a community organizer in Chicago. Few people have a clear idea of just what a “community organizer” does. A Los Angeles Times piece on Obama’s early Chicago days opens with the touching story of his efforts to build a partnership with Chicago’s “Friends of the Parks,” so that parents in a blighted neighborhood could have an inviting spot for their kids to play. This is the image of Obama’s organizing we’re supposed to hold. It’s far from the whole story, however. As the L. A. Times puts it, “Obama’s task was to help far South Side residents press for improvement” in their communities. Part of Obama’s work, it would appear, was to organize demonstrations, much in the mold of radical groups like Acorn.

Although the L. A. Times piece is generally positive, it does press Obama’s organizing tales on certain points. Some claim that Obama’s book, Dreams from My Father, exaggerates his accomplishments in spearheading an asbestos cleanup at a low-income housing project. Obama, these critics say, denies due credit to Hazel Johnson, an activist who claims she was the one who actually discovered the asbestos problem and led the efforts to resolve it. Read carefully, the L. A. Times story leans toward confirming this complaint against Obama, yet the story’s emphasis is to affirm Obama’s important role in the battle. Speaking up in defense of Obama on the asbestos issue is Madeleine Talbot, who at the time was a leader at Chicago Acorn. Talbot, we learn, was so impressed by Obama’s organizing skills that she invited him to help train her own staff.

And what exactly was Talbot’s work with Acorn? Talbot turns out to have been a key leader of that attempt by Acorn to storm the Chicago City Council (during a living-wage debate). While Sol Stern mentions this story in passing, the details are worth a look: On July 31, 1997, six people were arrested as 200 Acorn protesters tried to storm the Chicago City Council session. According to the Chicago Daily Herald, Acorn demonstrators pushed over the metal detector and table used to screen visitors, backed police against the doors to the council chamber, and blocked late-arriving aldermen and city staff from entering the session.

Reading the Herald article, you might think Acorn’s demonstrators had simply lost patience after being denied entry to the gallery at a packed meeting. Yet the full story points in a different direction. This was not an overreaction by frustrated followers who couldn’t get into a meeting (there were plenty of protestors already in the gallery), but almost certainly a deliberate bit of what radicals call “direct action,” orchestrated by Acorn’s Madeleine Talbot. As Talbot was led away handcuffed, charged with mob action and disorderly conduct, she explicitly justified her actions in storming the meeting. This was the woman who first drew Obama into his alliance with Acorn, and whose staff Obama helped train.


Surprise Visit
Does that mean Obama himself schooled Acorn volunteers in disruptive “direct action?” Not necessarily. The City Council storming took place in 1997, years after Obama’s early organizing days. And in general, Obama seems to have been part of Acorn’s “inside baseball” strategy. As a national star from his law school days, Obama knew he had a political future, and would surely have been reluctant to violate the law. In his early organizing days, Obama used to tell the residents he organized that they’d be more effective in their protests if they controlled their anger. On the other hand, as he established and deepened his association with Acorn through the years, Obama had to know what the organization was all about. Moreover, in his early days, Obama was not exactly a stranger to the “direct action” side of community organizing.

Consider the second charge against Obama raised by the L.A. Times backgrounder. On the stump today, Obama often says he helped prevent South Side Chicago blacks, Latinos, and whites from turning on each other after losing their jobs, but many of the community organizers interviewed by the L. A. Times say that Obama worked overwhelmingly with blacks.

To rebut this charge, Obama’s organizer friends tell the story of how he helped plan “actions” that included mixed white, black, and Latino groups. For example, following Obama’s plan, one such group paid a “surprise visit” to a meeting between local officials considering a landfill expansion. The protestors surrounded the meeting table while one activist made a statement chiding the officials, after which the protestors filed out. Presto! Obama is immunized from charges of having worked exclusively with blacks — but at the cost of granting us a peek at the not-so-warm-and-fuzzy side of his community organizing. Intimidation tactics are revealed, and Obama’s alliance with radical Acorn activists like Madeleine Talbot begins to make sense.

“Non-Partisan”
The extent of Obama’s ties to Acorn has not been recognized. We find some important details in an article in the journal Social Policy entitled, “Case Study: Chicago — The Barack Obama Campaign,” by Toni Foulkes, a Chicago Acorn leader and a member of Acorn’s National Association Board. The odd thing about this article is that Foulkes is forced to protect the technically “non-partisan” status of Acorn’s get-out-the-vote campaigns, even as he does everything in his power to give Acorn credit for helping its favorite son win the critical 2004 primary that secured Obama the Democratic nomination to the U.S. Senate.

Before giving us a tour of Acorn’s pro-Obama but somehow “non-partisan” election activities, Foulks treats us to a brief history of Obama’s ties to Acorn. While most press accounts imply that Obama just happened to be at the sort of public-interest law firm that would take Acorn’s “motor voter” case, Foulkes claims that Acorn specifically sought out Obama’s representation in the motor voter case, remembering Obama from the days when he worked with Talbot. And while many reports speak of Obama’s post-law school role organizing “Project VOTE” in 1992, Foulkes makes it clear that this project was undertaken in direct partnership with Acorn. Foulkes then stresses Obama’s yearly service as a key figure in Acorn’s leadership-training seminars.

At least a few news reports have briefly mentioned Obama’s role in training Acorn’s leaders, but none that I know of have said what Foulkes reports next: that Obama’s long service with Acorn led many members to serve as the volunteer shock troops of Obama’s early political campaigns — his initial 1996 State Senate campaign, and his failed bid for Congress in 2000 (Foulkes confuses the dates of these two campaigns.) With Obama having personally helped train a new cadre of Chicago Acorn leaders, by the time of Obama’s 2004 U.S. Senate campaign, Obama and Acorn were “old friends,” says Foulkes.

So along with the reservoir of political support that came to Obama through his close ties with Jeremiah Wright, Father Michael Pfleger, and other Chicago black churches, Chicago Acorn appears to have played a major role in Obama’s political advance. Sure enough, a bit of digging into Obama’s years in the Illinois State Senate indicates strong concern with Acorn’s signature issues, as well as meetings with Acorn and the introduction by Obama of Acorn-friendly legislation on the living wage and banking practices. You begin to wonder whether, in his Springfield days, Obama might have best been characterized as “the Senator from Acorn.”


Foundation Money

Although it’s been noted in an important story by John Fund, and in a long Obama background piece in the New York Times, more attention needs to be paid to possible links between Obama and Acorn during the period of Obama’s service on the boards of two charitable foundations, the Woods Fund and the Joyce Foundation.

According to the New York Times, Obama’s memberships on those foundation boards, “allowed him to help direct tens of millions of dollars in grants” to various liberal organizations, including Chicago Acorn, “whose endorsement Obama sought and won in his State Senate race.” As best as I can tell (and this needs to be checked out more fully), Acorn maintains both political and “non-partisan” arms. Obama not only sought and received the endorsement of Acorn’s political arm in his local campaigns, he recently accepted Acorn’s endorsement for the presidency, in pursuit of which he reminded Acorn officials of his long-standing ties to the group.

Supposedly, Acorn’s political arm is segregated from its “non-partisan” registration and get-out-the-vote efforts, but after reading Foulkes’ case study, this non-partisanship is exceedingly difficult to discern. As I understand, it would be illegal for Obama to sit on a foundation board and direct money to an organization that openly served as his key get-out-the-vote volunteers on Election Day. I’m not saying Obama crossed a legal line here: Based on Foulkes’ account, Acorn’s get-out-the-vote drive most likely observed the technicalities of “non-partisanship.”

Nevertheless, the possibilities suggested by a combined reading of the New York Times piece and the Foulkes article are disturbing. While keeping within the technicalities of the law, Obama may have been able to direct substantial foundation money to his organized political supporters. I offer no settled conclusion, but the matter certainly warrants further investigation and discussion. Obama is supposed to be the man who transcends partisanship. Has he instead used his post at an allegedly non-partisan foundation to direct money to a supposedly non-partisan group, in pursuit of what are in fact nakedly partisan and personal ends? I have no final answer, but the question needs to be pursued further.

In fact, the broader set of practices by which activist groups pursue intensely partisan ends under the guise of non-partisanship merits further scrutiny. Consider the 2006 report by Jonathan Bechtle, “Voter Turnout or Voter Fraud?” which includes a discussion of the nexus between Project Vote and Acorn, a nexus where Obama himself once resided. According to Bechtle, “It’s clear that groups that claimed to be nonpartisan wanted a partisan outcome,” and reading Foulkes’s case study of Acorn’s role in Obama’s U.S. Senate campaign, one can’t help but agree.

Radical Obama
Important as these questions of funding and partisanship are, the larger point is that Obama’s ties to Acorn — arguably the most politically radical large-scale activist group in the country — are wide, deep, and longstanding. If Acorn is adept at creating a non-partisan, inside-game veneer for what is in fact an intensely radical, leftist, and politically partisan reality, so is Obama himself. This is hardly a coincidence: Obama helped train Acorn’s leaders in how to play this game. For the most part, Obama seems to have favored the political-insider strategy, yet it’s clear that he knew how to play the in-your-face “direct action” game as well. And surely during his many years of close association with Acorn, Obama had to know what the group was all about.

The shame of it is that when the L. A. Times returned to Obama’s stomping grounds, it found the park he’d helped renovate reclaimed by drug dealers and thugs. The community organizer strategy may generate feel-good moments and best-selling books, but I suspect a Wal-Mart as the seed-bed of a larger shopping complex would have done far more to save the neighborhood where Obama worked to organize in the “progressive” fashion. Unfortunately, Obama’s Acorn cronies have blocked that solution.

In any case, if you’re looking for the piece of the puzzle that confirms and explains Obama’s network of radical ties, gather your Acorns this spring. Or next winter, you may just be left watching the “President from Acorn” at his feast.


http://article.natio...GIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

#2 biknut

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 03:30 PM

I'm biknut and I endorse this message.

#3 Zenob

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 05:45 PM

Is it any wonder why people think the far right is just a bunch of paranoid wackos? It's the standard tactic they use for EVERYTHING. If it's something they oppose, or something that opposes them, it's automatically a leftist plot, anti-american, anti-capitalism, radical, communist, etc. It's like they are all sharing the same brain with Ann Coulter. That's all that entire article is, just a lot of "radical" this and "anti" that and other assorted buzzwords. It's comical. :)

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#4 biknut

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 09:19 PM

That's all that entire article is, just a lot of "radical" this and "anti" that and other assorted buzzwords.


Zenob, just out of curiosity, other than the words radical, anti, and other assorted buzzwords, is there anything in the article you disagree with?

#5 Zenob

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:29 AM

That's all that entire article is, just a lot of "radical" this and "anti" that and other assorted buzzwords.


Zenob, just out of curiosity, other than the words radical, anti, and other assorted buzzwords, is there anything in the article you disagree with?


I couldn't dig any actual substance out of it to agree/disagree with. What exactly has ACORN done that is radical, communist, etc? That entire article was just one long trail of right wing buzzwords. Tell me something radical or other wise wrong about ACORN or Obama's link to it. As far as I can tell from that article, the worst thing they've ever done is stage demonstrations. Is protesting or staging demonstrations radical or anti-capitalist etc?

#6 maltemark

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:59 PM

ACORN has time and time again proven it's anti-union stance... read some of the stories of IWW-affiliated workers who they tried to squash after they tried to organize on the job...
http://www.iww.org/e...ons/iu650/acorn

"While ACORN already has an international reputation as a union-busting organization, it continues to harass employees, even when they are not affiliated with a union. This is, undoubtedly, the reason that so many ACORN workers across the country have reached out to unions like the IWW for assistance in gaining more power in their workplace."

#7 Zenob

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 07:54 PM

ACORN has time and time again proven it's anti-union stance... read some of the stories of IWW-affiliated workers who they tried to squash after they tried to organize on the job...
http://www.iww.org/e...ons/iu650/acorn

"While ACORN already has an international reputation as a union-busting organization, it continues to harass employees, even when they are not affiliated with a union. This is, undoubtedly, the reason that so many ACORN workers across the country have reached out to unions like the IWW for assistance in gaining more power in their workplace."


That's interesting. Anti-union behavior isn't normally associated with the left of the political spectrum. It's usually prevalent on the right.

#8 maxwatt

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 01:25 AM

That's all that entire article is, just a lot of "radical" this and "anti" that and other assorted buzzwords.


Zenob, just out of curiosity, other than the words radical, anti, and other assorted buzzwords, is there anything in the article you disagree with?


I couldn't dig any actual substance out of it to agree/disagree with. What exactly has ACORN done that is radical, communist, etc? That entire article was just one long trail of right wing buzzwords. Tell me something radical or other wise wrong about ACORN or Obama's link to it. As far as I can tell from that article, the worst thing they've ever done is stage demonstrations. Is protesting or staging demonstrations radical or anti-capitalist etc?


It doesn't matter. Obama has never been associated with ACORN either as an employee nor as an organizer. His only connection seems to have been as an attorney; he successfully challenged Governor Edgar to enforce the federal Motor Voter law, a suit which the Justice Department (!) also joined on ACORN's behalf. The article on Obama's putative ties to ACORN that instigated this thread is an attempted political smear: guilt by non-association.

And in case you think I am biased, I also think McCain was right: Cox should have been fired. He's the one who relaxed the debt requirement on the investment banks, allowing them to run up their debt ratio to 30 times assets, which is the most immediate precursor to the liquidty crisis.

Edited by maxwatt, 04 October 2008 - 01:35 AM.


#9 luv2increase

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 05:27 PM

Obama has never been associated with ACORN either as an employee nor as an organizer.



Uh huh. I think he has been maxwatt. There is lots of proof for it also.

Unless you can prove otherwise, I'd listen to the following:



The ACORN Obama knows
By Michelle Malkin

If you don’t know what ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) is all about, you better bone up. This left-wing group takes in 40 percent of its revenues from American taxpayers — you and me — and has leveraged nearly four decades of government subsidies to fund affiliates that promote the welfare state and undermine capitalism and self-reliance, some of which have been implicated in perpetuating illegal immigration and encouraging voter fraud. A new whistleblower report from the Consumer Rights League documents how Chicago-based ACORN has commingled public tax dollars with political projects.

Who in Washington will fight to ensure that your money isn’t being spent on these radical activities?

Don’t bother asking Barack Obama. He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a “community organizer” and legal representative. Naturally, ACORN’s political action committee has warmly endorsed his presidential candidacy. According to ACORN, Obama trained its Chicago members in leadership seminars; in turn, ACORN volunteers worked on his campaigns. Obama also sat on the boards of the Woods Fund and Joyce Foundation, both of which poured money into ACORN’s coffers. ACORN head Maude Hurd gushes that Obama is the candidate who “best understands and can affect change on the issues ACORN cares about” — like ensuring their massive pipeline to your hard-earned money.

Let’s take a closer look at the ACORN Obama knows.

Last July, ACORN settled the largest case of voter fraud in the history of Washington State. Seven ACORN workers had submitted nearly 2,000 bogus voter registration forms. According to case records, they flipped through phone books for names to use on the forms, including “Leon Spinks,” “Frekkie Magoal” and “Fruto Boy Crispila.” Three ACORN election hoaxers pleaded guilty in October. A King County prosecutor called ACORN’s criminal sabotage “an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls.”

The group’s vandalism on electoral integrity is systemic. ACORN has been implicated in similar voter fraud schemes in Missouri, Ohio and at least 12 other states. The Wall Street Journal noted: “In Ohio in 2004, a worker for one affiliate was given crack cocaine in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and pillars of the community named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey. During a congressional hearing in Ohio in the aftermath of the 2004 election, officials from several counties in the state explained ACORN’s practice of dumping thousands of registration forms in their lap on the submission deadline, even though the forms had been collected months earlier.”

In March, Philadelphia elections officials accused the nonprofit advocacy group of filing fraudulent voter registrations in advance of the April 22nd Pennsylvania primary. The charges have been forwarded to the city district attorney’s office.

Under the guise of “consumer advocacy,” ACORN has lined its pockets. The Department of Housing and Urban Development funds hundreds, if not thousands, of left-wing “anti-poverty” groups across the country led by ACORN. Last October, HUD announced more than $44 million in new housing counseling grants to over 400 state and local efforts. The White House has increased funding for housing counseling by 150 percent since taking office in 2001, despite the role most of these recipients play as activist satellites of the Democratic Party. The AARP scored nearly $400,000 for training; the National Council of La Raza (”The Race”) scooped up more than $1.3 million; the National Urban League raked in nearly $1 million; and the ACORN Housing Corporation received more than $1.6 million.

As the Consumer Rights League points out in its new expose, the ACORN Housing Corporation has worked to obtain mortgages for illegal aliens in partnership with Citibank. It relies on undocumented income, “under the table” money, which may not be reported to the Internal Revenue Service. Moreover, the group’s “financial justice” operations attack lenders for “exotic” loans, while recommending 10-year interest-only loans (which deny equity to the buyer) and risky reverse mortgages. Whistleblower documents reveal internal discussions among the group that blur the lines between its tax-exempt housing work and its aggressive electioneering activities. The group appears to shake down corporate interests with relentless PR attacks, and then enters “no lobby” agreements with targeted corporations after receiving payment.

Republicans have largely looked the other way as ACORN has expanded its government-funded empire. But finally, a few conservative voices in Congress have called for investigation of the group’s apparent extortion schemes. This week, GOP Reps. Tom Feeney, Jeb Hensarling and Ed Royce called on Democrat Barney Frank, chair of the House Financial Services Committee, to convene a hearing to probe potential illegalities and abuse of taxpayer funds by ACORN’s management and minions alike.

Where does the candidate of Hope and Change — the candidate of Reform and New Politics — stand on the issue? Barack Obama, ACORN’s senator, is for more of the same old, same old subsidizing of far-left politics in the name of fighting for the poor while enriching ideological cronies. It’s the Chicago way.


http://michellemalki...rn-obama-knows/





If that isn't good enough for you maxwatt, try these links.


Radical Obama: the Middle Years --------> This is an excellent one!
http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=396


Obama's Ties To ACORN More Substantial Than First Believed --------> Can you say ObamaCorn? :)
by Rick Moran
http://www.americant..._more_subs.html


Acorn Squash
By Steven Malanga
http://www.manhattan...corn_squash.htm


ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities
by Sol Stern
http://www.city-jour...tty_regime.html



Don't tell me ya still deny it. Say it isn't so joe. :)

#10 biknut

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 10:07 PM

When Obama referred to himself as a community organizer, Acorn is what he was talking about. Of course a guy like Obama would naturally be attracted to a sleazy extreme left wing organization like Acorn. Birds of a feather flock together.

There's a couple of other birds in the flock that we've heard of before too.

"Not surprisingly it turns out that Reverend Jeremiah Wright and Father Michael Pfleger - two radical clergy closely associated with Obama - have extensive ties to ACORN."

http://www.americant..._more_subs.html

#11 Iam Empathy

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 02:30 AM

http://www.johnmccainrecord.com/

#12 biknut

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:16 AM

http://www.johnmccainrecord.com/


McCain supports President Bush’s plan to privatize Social Security and would gamble the Social Security Trust Fund in the stock market.
Source: Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08

I'm all for this. There's no rule forcing anyone to gamble in the stock market. You can save you donations in a savings account if you want and collect compound interest on your money at the same time. Something that doesn't happen now. This is a great plan for young people.

McCain voted against much-needed increases in Medicare funding for seniors, taking away many seniors’ only access to health care.
Source: Vote 584, 11/17/95; The Hill, 7/15/08; Vote 177, 7/15/08; Tax Policy Center, Preliminary Analysis Of The 2008 Presidential Candidates’ Tax Plan, 6/20/08

I believe it says he voted against increases in funding. He didn't take anything away, especially more of my tax dollars. Seniors don't receive funding anyway, they receive benefits, which automatically increase anyway.

McCain’s tax scheme gives Big Oil a $4 billion tax break, while 37 million seniors get no relief at all.

This is misleading. McCain's tax scheme cuts all corporate taxes. It doesn't say anything about oil company's. Cutting corporate taxes will increase the number of jobs. All seniors that are incorporated and pay taxes would get a tax cut too.

#13 niner

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:38 AM

Cutting corporate taxes will increase the number of jobs.

This is taken as an article of faith, but what is the evidence for it, particularly at the taxation rates we have today?

It might increase the number of jobs a little bit, but at what cost? If it costs ten million dollars added to the deficit for every job it creates, then the long term consequences may well be productivity and jobs lost, due to the drag of the deficit on the availability of credit and value of the dollar.

#14 luv2increase

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:45 AM

http://www.johnmccainrecord.com/



Let's stay on topic please. I'm sure you know Empathy that this isn't a discussion about John McCain, but it is a discussion about Obama and his relationship to ACORN.

#15 biknut

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:24 PM

It doesn't matter. Obama has never been associated with ACORN either as an employee nor as an organizer. His only connection seems to have been as an attorney; he successfully challenged Governor Edgar to enforce the federal Motor Voter law, a suit which the Justice Department (!) also joined on ACORN's behalf. The article on Obama's putative ties to ACORN that instigated this thread is an attempted political smear: guilt by non-association.

And in case you think I am biased, I also think McCain was right: Cox should have been fired. He's the one who relaxed the debt requirement on the investment banks, allowing them to run up their debt ratio to 30 times assets, which is the most immediate precursor to the liquidty crisis.


I think this comment illustrates why Obama is still doing well. Maxwatt's statement is very uninformed, but I think honest on his part. If Americans, and this is a big if, find out about Obama's unsavory background before the election, he'll lose. If not we'll have the most left wing president in history, but probably for only one term.

#16 Zenob

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:56 PM

Uh huh. I think he has been maxwatt. There is lots of proof for it also.

Unless you can prove otherwise, I'd listen to the following:



The ACORN Obama knows
By Michelle Malkin

LOL, Michelle Malkin is a raving lunatic. This is the same woman who's main tactic when dealing with opponents is to post their personal information on her website so that the raving hordes of inbred knuckle draggers that read her crap can harrase their families. She's done this crap numerous times. This is the same insane git that wanted to boycott the Rachel Ray show because she said she was wearing a "jihadi scarf". This woman is stark raving nuts. And THIS is who you turn to for information? It's no wonder the republicans are crashing and burning. Please, keep pushing this non story to try and save McCain's doomed campaign. Better yet, "turn loose Palin" as all the right wing talking heads keep saying they need to do and let her do it. That should be good for another 12 point bump for Obama. lol

#17 maxwatt

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 07:05 PM

It doesn't matter. Obama has never been associated with ACORN either as an employee nor as an organizer. His only connection seems to have been as an attorney; he successfully challenged Governor Edgar to enforce the federal Motor Voter law, a suit which the Justice Department (!) also joined on ACORN's behalf. The article on Obama's putative ties to ACORN that instigated this thread is an attempted political smear: guilt by non-association.

And in case you think I am biased, I also think McCain was right: Cox should have been fired. He's the one who relaxed the debt requirement on the investment banks, allowing them to run up their debt ratio to 30 times assets, which is the most immediate precursor to the liquidity crisis.


I think this comment illustrates why Obama is still doing well. Maxwatt's statement is very uninformed, but I think honest on his part. If Americans, and this is a big if, find out about Obama's unsavory background before the election, he'll lose. If not we'll have the most left wing president in history, but probably for only one term.


What part of this is uninformed? I was being only slightly facetious in making that statement about Cox, though he did relax asset requirements more than was prudent.

How is Obama's background unsavory? Obama was a community organizer, but never worked with Acorn's projects. This is verifiable by employment records, both Obama's and Acorn's. Obama never took part in any of Acorn's demonstrations, but did organize demonstrations, I think for better service for tenants from the Chicago Housing Authority. I suppose you could call this an anti-government demonstration. ;)

Obama has led a very public life. His only activities that can be called left-wing seem to be his work as a community organizer, which looks to me like another name for privatized social work. The other "factoid" used to paint Obama as a radical leftist is an exaggerated and tenuous association with William Ayers. Ayers, decades after he renounced his radical activities, hosted a fundraiser for Obama when he was a young politician. Obama was a child when Ayers was associated with the Weathermen in the sixties, and is probably truthful when he says he was ignorant of Ayers' past activities.* Some conservative blogs claim the association is stronger than that because before officially "meeting" Ayers, for two years while attending Columbia, Obama lived less than a quarter mile from Ayers. Give me a break. This isn't some exurb where your nearest neighbor is at least a quarter mile away, it's New York City, where you have 50,000 neighbors within a quarter mile. Obama lived not much further from Roy Cohen, and probably had as much to do with him. The Republican strategy seems to rely on Stalin's principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, people believe it.

Obama's proposals do not look to me to be particularly socialist or radical. His health care plan is far less "socialist" than any of the other seven major industrialized nations. You are calling leftist what once would have been called centrist. Why are we still fighting the Communist threat of the cold war with the rhetoric of the fifties? That problem died two decades ago. Red-baiting anyone who doesn't hew to the New Republican Neoconservative party line is silly. Current threats to our national security are resource-depletion, climate change, erosion of technological primacy, and failure to invest in infra-structure and education. These are critical to our future. Failure to address these in a realistic and pragmatic manner will ensure the continued decline of America --no true patriot can bear to see this happen-- and make achieving the Immortality Institute's goal more difficult if not impossible. Obama is at least talking about our real problems. The Republican party has instead elected to make war on science and reason, to ensure the vote of the twenty to thirty percent of the electorate that believes in literal interpretation of the bible. Our nation's problem is no longer knee-jerk liberals, it is knee-jerk reactionaries who distract us from our real problems as we continue to enrich our enemies by mindless oil consumption, while impoverishing our middle class. The fiscally conservative and libertarian Republicans I grew up among in the Northeast are mostly Democrats now, or will be voting for Obama because they can hold their noses no longer. The Dixiecrats who abandoned the Democratic party and now control the Republican agenda, are driving that party and the country into the ground.

Edited by maxwatt, 05 October 2008 - 08:59 PM.


#18 luv2increase

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:37 AM

LOL, Michelle Malkin is a raving lunatic.



Proof? Is there something which you can give here which proves she is a "raving lunatic"?


Also, what about the others? Are they all "raving lunatics", and can you please give proof if you believe they are?



Zenob, I see you are new here, and I'm glad you are here, but we like to see proof when you make posts. Just saying someone is a "raving lunatic" doesn't cut it. It isn't a nice thing to say first of all which makes proof all the more necessary that way others will see where you are coming from. Also, is there something in her article that you can prove is false? That would be good as well since otherwise, it would just be an ad-hominem attack towards an individual without warrant, which also isn't very well taken here at Imminst.

Much obliged.

Edited by luv2increase, 06 October 2008 - 03:38 AM.


#19 biknut

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:27 PM

The other "factoid" used to paint Obama as a radical leftist is an exaggerated and tenuous association with William Ayers. Ayers, decades after he renounced his radical activities, hosted a fundraiser for Obama when he was a young politician. Obama was a child when Ayers was associated with the Weathermen in the sixties, and is probably truthful when he says he was ignorant of Ayers' past activities.* Some conservative blogs claim the association is stronger than that


This is highly debatable, and when we're talking about the presidency of the United States I think we should error on the safe side.

I'm not aware that Ayers ever renounced his radical activities. As a matter of fact he's widlely quoated as claiming that he feels he didn't do enough.

Can you show any links where Ayers voices regret for his terrorist activity's other than regretting he didn't blow up more stuff?

If he waited till after Obama announced his running for president that would make his association with Obama even more suspect.

#20 inawe

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:53 PM

A Pal Around McCain

By Harold Meyerson
Monday, October 6, 2008

"There's no question that we have to change the subject here," a senior Republican operative told The Post's Michael D. Shear in a
story published Saturday. The "subject" in question is the economy and how to fix it. As Americans have taken their eye off the ball -- that is, off John
McCain's sterling qualities of character and command -- by focusing on the economy, Barack Obama has surged into the lead nationally and in
many key battleground states. So long as the candidates talk about that pesky economy, McCain's handlers have realized, McCain will
continue to swoon.
Thus the campaign has announced that it will go on the attack again on the momentous topics of Obama's ties to the Rev.
Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers, the onetime Weatherman who has been a University of Illinois education professor for nearly two decades.
Campaigning on Saturday in Colorado, Sarah Palin accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists" by associating with Ayers, citing as
her source a New York Times story from that morning. In fact, the story concluded that the Obama-Ayers "relationship" consisted of both
men attending the board meetings of two Chicago organizations and that there had been no contact between the men, other than bumping into
each other on the sidewalk (they live in the same neighborhood), since Obama went to the U.S. Senate in January 2005.

The story of Obama's interaction with Ayers is drenched in irony, since it is basically a tale of Obama being co-opted into Chicago's
civic establishment. In 1995, Obama, then a young lawyer with political ambitions but as yet no office, was recruited to chair the
board of a school reform organization funded and established by the Annenberg Foundation -- a group that distributes the wealth of the
estate of Walter Annenberg, Richard Nixon's ambassador to Britain. It was only then that Obama met Ayers, who already was a board member and
a figure in Chicago's education-policy elite. (Mayor Richard Daley, that known radical, told the Times that he had consulted Ayers on
education issues for years.) Go join your city's establishment, and see what it gets you.

But if the McCain people want to rummage through presidential candidates' associations, real or imagined, to turn up
figures who threaten to pull down this proud republic, they should begin in-house. Chief among those to whom responsibility attaches for
the financial crisis that is plunging the nation into recession is former Texas senator Phil Gramm, McCain's own economic guru. Gramm was
always Wall Street's man in the Senate. As chairman of the Senate Banking Committee during the Clinton administration, he consistently
underfunded the Securities and Exchange Commission and kept it from stopping accounting firms from auditing corporations with which they
had conflicts of interest. Gramm's piece de resistance came on Dec. 15, 2000, when he slipped into an omnibus spending bill a provision
called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act (CFMA), which prohibited any governmental regulation of credit default swaps, those
insurance policies covering losses on securities in the event they went belly up. As the housing bubble ballooned, the face value of
those swaps rose to a tidy $62 trillion. And as the housing bubble burst, those swaps became a massive pile of worthless paper, because
no government agency had required the banks to set aside money to back them up.
The CFMA also prohibited government regulation of the energy-trading market, which enabled Enron to nearly bankrupt the
state of California before bankrupting itself. The problem with this exercise, of course, is that Gramm's relationship to McCain is not
comparable to the relationships that Ayers or Wright have with Obama. The idea that either Ayers or Wright would have any impact on the
workings of an Obama administration is nonsensical. But Gramm and McCain do have an enduring political and economic alliance. McCain
chaired Gramm's short-lived presidential campaign in 1996; Gramm is co-chair of McCain's current effort. McCain has not repudiated reports
that Gramm is on the shortlist to become Treasury secretary if McCain is elected, even after Gramm labeled America "a nation of whiners."
If we are to believe his managers, McCain will charge into tomorrow night's debate seeking to "change the subject" from the economy to
Obama's dangerous liaisons. It's not, however, likely to be a winning tactic. Obama will argue that in a time of deepening economic crisis,
the public deserves a debate in which the candidates focus on their ideas for recovery rather than tendentious attacks on their rival's
presumed associates. If pressed, though, he can mention that it is McCain's senior economic adviser who has diminished American solvency
and power beyond the wildest dreams of anti-American terrorists.

#21 Iam Empathy

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 11:00 PM

Removed Link

Edited by shepard, 06 October 2008 - 11:34 PM.
Please stop posting the same thing in multiple threads.


#22 luv2increase

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 11:12 PM

ACORN Vegas Office Raided in Voter Fraud Investigation
ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters has been raided by Nevada authorities looking for evidence of voter fraud.

Tuesday, October 07, 2008



Nevada state authorities seized records and computers Tuesday from the Las Vegas office of an organization that tries to get low-income people registered to vote, after fielding complaints of voter fraud.

Bob Walsh, spokesman for the Nevada secretary of state's office, told FOXNews.com the raid was prompted by ongoing complaints about "erroneous" registration information being submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also called ACORN.

The group was submitting the information through a voter sign-up drive known as Project Vote.

"Some of them used nonexistent names, some of them used false addresses and some of them were duplicates of previously filed applications," Walsh said, describing the complaints, which largely came from the registrar in Clark County, Nev.


Secretary of State Ross Miller said the fraudulent registrations included forms for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team.

"Tony Romo is not registered to vote in the state of Nevada, and anybody trying to pose as Terrell Owens won't be able to cast a ballot on Nov. 4," Miller said.


Walsh said agents from both the secretary of state's office and Nevada attorney general's office conducted the raid at 9:30 a.m. local time, and "took a bunch of stuff." Miller's office reported seizing eight computer hard drives and about 20 boxes of documents.

Bertha Lewis, interim chief organizer for ACORN, released a statement saying the group has for months been turning over any suspicious registration information to elections officials. She said those officials routinely ignored their tips, and called the raid a "stunt."

"When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations," she said. "Today's raid by the secretary of state's office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."

Neither the group, which hires canvassers to register voters, nor any employees have been charged or arrested for fraud or other crimes, said Miller, a Democrat.

But it's not the first time ACORN's been under investigation for registration irregularities. The raid is the latest of at least nine investigations into possible fraudulent voter registration forms submitted by ACORN -- the probes have involved ACORN workers in Wisconsin, New Mexico, Indiana and other states.

In 2006, ACORN also committed what Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed called the "worse case of election fraud" in the state's history.

In the case, ACORN submitted just over 1,800 new voter registration forms, and all but six of the 1,800 names were fake.

More recently, 27,000 registrations handled by the group from January to July 2008 "went into limbo because they were incomplete, inaccurate, or fraudulent," said James Terry, chief public advocate at the Consumers Rights League.


http://elections.fox...-investigation/

#23 RighteousReason

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 01:45 PM

ACORN Vegas Office Raided in Voter Fraud Investigation

ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters has been raided by Nevada authorities looking for evidence of voter fraud.

from FoxNews.

from MichaelSavage.com

#24 debu

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:29 AM

The first thread I click in and it's chock full of right wing propaganda. I logged on here thinking there would be some interesting objective views on current U.S. politics. LOL, how can anyone seriously cite Fox "News" as a credible source??

Edited by debu, 09 October 2008 - 02:30 AM.


#25 luv2increase

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:45 AM

The first thread I click in and it's chock full of right wing propaganda. I logged on here thinking there would be some interesting objective views on current U.S. politics. LOL, how can anyone seriously cite Fox "News" as a credible source??



Well, what is the initial post is erroneous to you? It doesn't matter where the information comes from as long as it is true. Fox News is not right wing anymore. That is an old stigma. They've since gone the route as being unbiased. If you would watch it on TV or look at their website, you'd certainly see an equal amount of bad stuff on McCain as Obama.

#26 debu

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:35 AM

The first thread I click in and it's chock full of right wing propaganda. I logged on here thinking there would be some interesting objective views on current U.S. politics. LOL, how can anyone seriously cite Fox "News" as a credible source??



Well, what is the initial post is erroneous to you? It doesn't matter where the information comes from as long as it is true. Fox News is not right wing anymore. That is an old stigma. They've since gone the route as being unbiased. If you would watch it on TV or look at their website, you'd certainly see an equal amount of bad stuff on McCain as Obama.



You're kidding me right? Did they suddenly get bought out by a company that doesn't have right wing interest? Does Rupert Murdoch have nothing to do with News Corp any longer?
Are there any pundits on there (besides Colmes) who don't support a right wing agenda?

Look I'm for a 3rd party, but the guilt by association game is getting old on both sides. If we were to play that game then Palin, who's husband was part of a secessionist party (Who are extremely anti-American) for 7years, should be off the ticket now. And Mccain, well he has more scandals, lies, guilty by associations then I care to type.

http://www.salon.com...ins_unamerican/

CNN fact Checks McCain



John Mccain lying game (Time magazine article)
http://www.time.com/...?iid=digg_share

I tend to think character is destiny.

#27 luv2increase

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:45 AM

You're kidding me right? Did they suddenly get bought out by a company that doesn't have right wing interest? Does Rupert Murdoch have nothing to do with News Corp any longer?



debu debu, you didn't address what I asked you. You are attacking the organization and not the issue. That is the same as attacking a person and not what they said. Point out what was erroneous in the article since what you said made it out to be lies and garbage. I am waiting. Thank you debu.

#28 debu

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:16 AM

You're kidding me right? Did they suddenly get bought out by a company that doesn't have right wing interest? Does Rupert Murdoch have nothing to do with News Corp any longer?



debu debu, you didn't address what I asked you. You are attacking the organization and not the issue. That is the same as attacking a person and not what they said. Point out what was erroneous in the article since what you said made it out to be lies and garbage. I am waiting. Thank you debu.


I'm not able to ask questions within a post? While there may be associations (tenuous at best) to what you posted, from all I've seen from many sources Mccain has had some VERY interesting associations. I'd be careful going down that route.

And I really can't take this seriously if you think that Fox news is a non-biased source of information. :) goodbye

#29 luv2increase

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 12:37 PM

You're kidding me right? Did they suddenly get bought out by a company that doesn't have right wing interest? Does Rupert Murdoch have nothing to do with News Corp any longer?



debu debu, you didn't address what I asked you. You are attacking the organization and not the issue. That is the same as attacking a person and not what they said. Point out what was erroneous in the article since what you said made it out to be lies and garbage. I am waiting. Thank you debu.


I'm not able to ask questions within a post? While there may be associations (tenuous at best) to what you posted, from all I've seen from many sources Mccain has had some VERY interesting associations. I'd be careful going down that route.

And I really can't take this seriously if you think that Fox news is a non-biased source of information. :) goodbye



debu debu, you failed to point out what was wrong and continued with the negative spews. oh d e b u . . . what is to be done with y o u?

:) goodbye

#30 maxwatt

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:10 PM

The other "factoid" used to paint Obama as a radical leftist is an exaggerated and tenuous association with William Ayers. Ayers, decades after he renounced his radical activities, hosted a fundraiser for Obama when he was a young politician. Obama was a child when Ayers was associated with the Weathermen in the sixties, and is probably truthful when he says he was ignorant of Ayers' past activities.* Some conservative blogs claim the association is stronger than that


This is highly debatable, and when we're talking about the presidency of the United States I think we should error on the safe side.

I'm not aware that Ayers ever renounced his radical activities. As a matter of fact he's widlely quoated as claiming that he feels he didn't do enough.

Can you show any links where Ayers voices regret for his terrorist activity's other than regretting he didn't blow up more stuff?

If he waited till after Obama announced his running for president that would make his association with Obama even more suspect.


Ayers offered a sort of backhand apology in his book published in 2001. He apologized for acts of violence, and said that the group decided to damage only property and warn authorities to evacuate their targets after they accidentally blew up their townhouse and killed two of their own. "Chicago" magazine said he sent a letter of apology to a man who was injured by one of their bombs at the time he published the book. As for the interview where he supposedly stated he would do it again, he claims his words were twisted and misrepresented by the reporter; what he meant was he would resist the war again, supposedly by less violent means? It remains ambiguous. I am sure he is a different man in his sixties than when he was twenty, and has appeared on the surface to be a respected member of his community. Many conservatives worked on the Annenberg foundation with him, and not just Obama. If you've ever worked in a large corporation, you must realize you may have no idea what your boss, or any of those people around you, were doing thirty or forty years ago.

But Ayers is not the issue. He is a distraction.




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