28 replies to this topic

[RighteousReason]

Michael Savage and I agree that we would prefer Bush III to Marx II.

[biknut]

If this election was between Nobama and Jimmy Carter, the worst president in my lifetime, I'd vote for Carter.

[inmostleaf]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

[RighteousReason]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

Edited by Savage, 11 October 2008 - 05:00 PM.

[inmostleaf]

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

Yes, ignorance. Why?

There is a profound difference between knowing & understanding. Without that one cannot practice discern, cannot sense what might be lacking in the information, or the difference between an honest presentation & trashy sentimentality.

In a normative sense, it conveys a lack of education.

[luv2increase]

In a normative sense, it conveys a lack of education.

I bet you didn't even know about Obama and his obsession with Marxism did you leaf? And here you are trying to call someone else ignorant. How ironic.

[inmostleaf]

I actually did know of his Marxist leanings, but who does that really matter?

[luv2increase]

I actually did know of his Marxist leanings, but who does that really matter?

How about those Americans in the majority who don't want those leanings imposed upon us by a President whom will ultimately have the power to do so.

[maxwatt]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad? What is the political purpose of these innuendos of socialism now? Is it effective, counter-productive or do people just not care as the current system seems to be falling down on our heads? Is this really socialism, or an attempt to shore up capitalism and private enterprise with a veneer of social concern?

[RighteousReason]

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

Yes, ignorance. Why?

There is a profound difference between knowing & understanding. Without that one cannot practice discern, cannot sense what might be lacking in the information, or the difference between an honest presentation & trashy sentimentality.

In a normative sense, it conveys a lack of education.

Ok, the only piece of information you have communicated here is a thinly veiled personal attack.

Try to say something coherent.

[luv2increase]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad? What is the political purpose of these innuendos of socialism now? Is it effective, counter-productive or do people just not care as the current system seems to be falling down on our heads? Is this really socialism, or an attempt to shore up capitalism and private enterprise with a veneer of social concern?

Every single post you make with regards to socialism is Pro-Socialism. You argue that our system is failing so why not, basically. Why is this?

[RighteousReason]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

If you are a supporter of communism/marxism, that's your right, I guess. Frankly, I'm a fan of freedom, private property, personal achievement, limited government, and economic success. And I would be very happy to see any communist thrown in prison or deported. I only wish we had a modern day McCarthy to clean things up.

Edited by Savage, 11 October 2008 - 09:12 PM.

[inmostleaf]

How about those Americans in the majority who don't want those leanings imposed upon us by a President whom will ultimately have the power to do so.

Well, that's quite a sweeping generalization.

If opponents of Obama actually listened to everything he had to say they'd understand he's not pushing a Communist agenda, rather, aiming for more of a Social Democracy.

The recent collapse of the economy should be perceived as a warning that this hyper-Capitalism we're all directly/indirectly participating in will only get worse.

Edited by inmostleaf, 11 October 2008 - 11:59 PM.

[maxwatt]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

If you are a supporter of communism/marxism, that's your right, I guess. Frankly, I'm a fan of freedom, private property, personal achievement, limited government, and economic success. And I would be very happy to see any communist thrown in prison or deported. I only wish we had a modern day McCarthy to clean things up.

I'm only a Groucho-Marxist. The philosophical basis of Communism is an ontological fallacy. There is nothing on your list of beliefs I have an issue with, or that is inconsistent with social democracy. As for socialism, Abe Lincoln said "Even a broken clock is right twice a day." Just because socialists espouse it, doesn't mean a policy is wrong.
What is wrong and un-American is to put someone in jail for their beliefs. The Supreme Court freed Junius Scales, the only American Communist ever imprisoned merely for membership in the Communist Party, having committed no terrorist act . McCarthy didn't clean things up though he took credit for it; he muddied the waters so everyone was suspect, from honest social reformers to apolitical film directors who once worked with someone who knew someone who might have attended a meeting, to centrist and neo-liberal diplomats. Everyone he didn't bless. True spies tend to escape scrutiny by adopting suitably orthodox views.

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

[RighteousReason]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

You are arguing against reasoning I haven't even provided! HELLO!? What makes you think anything I say to back up my position will have anything to do with what you just said? If you are saying my position that Obama's view is comparable to Marx is unfair regardless of my reasoning, then what makes the position that McCain's view is comparable to Bush fair?

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

I disagree with Huey Long. I think fascism is coming to America with Barack Obama, only it will come under the disguise of "fighting racism". I have a whole topic I'm going to create about this, when I get around to it.

Edited by Savage, 12 October 2008 - 03:09 AM.

[maxwatt]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

You are arguing against reasoning I haven't even provided! HELLO!? What makes you think anything I say to back up my position will have anything to do with what you just said? If you are saying my position that Obama's view is comparable to Marx is unfair regardless of my reasoning, then what makes the position that McCain's view is comparable to Bush fair?

Sorry if I seemed to have gotten onto a soapbox. You said you didn't know what I meant by red-baiting, I was trying to explain. If you state a position without fully explaining it, then my remarks were aimed at assumptions about the reasons for what you were saying. What specific policies Obama has espoused are Marxist, or even socialist?

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

I disagree with Huey Long. I think fascism is coming to America with Barack Obama, only it will come under the disguise of "fighting racism". I have a whole topic I'm going to create about this, when I get around to it.

I am looking forward to it. But consider: if this racial subculture has a positive role model who is not dealing drugs and walking around with his pants down around his knees and his cap tipped sideways, who tells fathers to be responsible and care for their family, won't that do much to tear the mask from the 'disguise of "fighting racism"' ?
Marxism is 180 degrees around the political spectrum from Fascism. If Obama is Marx II, how is it that Obama will bring fascism to America?

Edited by maxwatt, 12 October 2008 - 12:06 PM.

[.fonclea.]

Certainly Marx II

I guess americans have an archaic, stereotyped and backward vision of communism or Marxism wich make them say aberrations and vote for Bush. We are not in 1917 guys......

Obama has nothing with Marx BUT there is no big differencies between Komeni or Bush: archaism.

[RighteousReason]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

You are arguing against reasoning I haven't even provided! HELLO!? What makes you think anything I say to back up my position will have anything to do with what you just said? If you are saying my position that Obama's view is comparable to Marx is unfair regardless of my reasoning, then what makes the position that McCain's view is comparable to Bush fair?

Sorry if I seemed to have gotten onto a soapbox. You said you didn't know what I meant by red-baiting, I was trying to explain. If you state a position without fully explaining it, then my remarks were aimed at assumptions about the reasons for what you were saying. What specific policies Obama has espoused are Marxist, or even socialist?

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

I disagree with Huey Long. I think fascism is coming to America with Barack Obama, only it will come under the disguise of "fighting racism". I have a whole topic I'm going to create about this, when I get around to it.

I am looking forward to it. But consider: if this racial subculture has a positive role model who is not dealing drugs and walking around with his pants down around his knees and his cap tipped sideways, who tells fathers to be responsible and care for their family, won't that do much to tear the mask from the 'disguise of "fighting racism"' ?
Marxism is 180 degrees around the political spectrum from Fascism. If Obama is Marx II, how is it that Obama will bring fascism to America?

When people are silenced, thrown in jail, or worse for saying something disagreeable to the powers that be, I call it fascism. This is the first election in history where one of the candidates is used as a weapon against political speakers in this country. Even you would be outraged at some of the things being called racist, this before the Chosen One has even ascended into the oval office.

[RighteousReason]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

You are arguing against reasoning I haven't even provided! HELLO!? What makes you think anything I say to back up my position will have anything to do with what you just said? If you are saying my position that Obama's view is comparable to Marx is unfair regardless of my reasoning, then what makes the position that McCain's view is comparable to Bush fair?

Sorry if I seemed to have gotten onto a soapbox. You said you didn't know what I meant by red-baiting, I was trying to explain. If you state a position without fully explaining it, then my remarks were aimed at assumptions about the reasons for what you were saying. What specific policies Obama has espoused are Marxist, or even socialist?

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

I disagree with Huey Long. I think fascism is coming to America with Barack Obama, only it will come under the disguise of "fighting racism". I have a whole topic I'm going to create about this, when I get around to it.

I am looking forward to it.

Assuming you are a communist who cares nothing for individual rights, I can certainly understand why you would.

[maxwatt]

Okay...Bush III is close, but Marx II is just awful. It further displays the profound ignorance of people.

Ignorance?

What about Obama's affinity for Marxism in college, for Marxist professors and Marxist student groups?

Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign

How does this differ from red-baiting, as practiced by McCarthyites in the 50's? Was it justified at that time? What did it actually achieve, good or bad?

I don't know what you mean by red-baiting. If you are assuming I'm making unjustified accusations, let me assure you that I'm not. It's much simpler to state a position than to fully explain and prove a case.

So that's the problem. Stating a position that relies on innuendo and guilt-by-association spreads the poison with no proof. The "proof" is only circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence cannot be refuted, and it need only be repeated to have an ill effect, while attempted denials only repeat it and enforce the public's belief. Those originating such stories know the technique well.

You are arguing against reasoning I haven't even provided! HELLO!? What makes you think anything I say to back up my position will have anything to do with what you just said? If you are saying my position that Obama's view is comparable to Marx is unfair regardless of my reasoning, then what makes the position that McCain's view is comparable to Bush fair?

Sorry if I seemed to have gotten onto a soapbox. You said you didn't know what I meant by red-baiting, I was trying to explain. If you state a position without fully explaining it, then my remarks were aimed at assumptions about the reasons for what you were saying. What specific policies Obama has espoused are Marxist, or even socialist?

Huey Long once was asked if Fascism could come to America. "Yes", he said, "only we'll call it patriotism."

I disagree with Huey Long. I think fascism is coming to America with Barack Obama, only it will come under the disguise of "fighting racism". I have a whole topic I'm going to create about this, when I get around to it.

I am looking forward to it.

Assuming you are a communist who cares nothing for individual rights, I can certainly understand why you would.

I am looking forward to the topic you're going to create about this, when you get around to it. You are red-baiting. I did not mean I was looking forward to fascism, or Marxism, neither of which Obama wants or could bring about. Obama is Right of Other G7 Leaders.

Edited by maxwatt, 12 October 2008 - 02:37 PM.

[RighteousReason]

oh man.. there is so, so, SO MUCH. I get mad at myself everyday because I hear three new things I could add to this hypothetical topic that I'm letting slip by

i will create that topic eventually. i'm getting kinda tired of this other stuff though.

[RighteousReason]

Whatever you think of John McCain, remember this: Voting for him rewards the Republican Party for 8 years of Bush.

Remember, voting for Obama rewards the socialists, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, marxists, communists, Barnie Frank, Chris Dodd, and the rest of the radical left wing of the Democrat party.

Edited by Savage, 29 October 2008 - 03:01 AM.

[sthira]

Here's the thing you yank neo-con wackjobs. For the past eight years we of the world community have endured your crappy policies and your idiotic, low IQ president. The US is hated around the world for your stupid Iraq nonsense, your torturing of prisoners, your lying, your robbing the natural resources of lands that are not yours, your arrogance, your pollution, your bad food, on and on. The American people are fine; your government under Bush 2 sucks. The world outside of the US has already elected Obama. Now, be men, shut the hell up, and endure the shift in the political climate. It's for your own good, you fat greedy morons. Get out of your cars, take a walk, skip a meal, and try using your brain and envisioning the possibility that you live in a world community. We all live on this planet, and you seem to think you own it all for yourselves. Guess what? Time for you to grow up, America. Electing a black man will help you remember that black men and women built most of your country for you for free. Obama a socialist -- you have no idea what the hell you're saying.

[Iam Empathy]

Here's the thing you yank neo-con wackjobs. For the past eight years we of the world community have endured your crappy policies and your idiotic, low IQ president. The US is hated around the world for your stupid Iraq nonsense, your torturing of prisoners, your lying, your robbing the natural resources of lands that are not yours, your arrogance, your pollution, your bad food, on and on. The American people are fine; your government under Bush 2 sucks. The world outside of the US has already elected Obama. Now, be men, shut the hell up, and endure the shift in the political climate. It's for your own good, you fat greedy morons. Get out of your cars, take a walk, skip a meal, and try using your brain and envisioning the possibility that you live in a world community. We all live on this planet, and you seem to think you own it all for yourselves. Guess what? Time for you to grow up, America. Electing a black man will help you remember that black men and women built most of your country for you for free. Obama a socialist -- you have no idea what the hell you're saying.

World map of which countries want Obama to win:

http://www.economist...=most_commented

[Iam Empathy]

http://theworldfor.com/

http://www.iftheworl...ote.com/results

[Iam Empathy]

Don't screw this up America...

[Iam Empathy]

It's fascinating to see how the world would vote.

[biknut]

Here's the thing you yank neo-con wackjobs. For the past eight years we of the world community have endured your crappy policies and your idiotic, low IQ president. The US is hated around the world for your stupid Iraq nonsense, your torturing of prisoners, your lying, your robbing the natural resources of lands that are not yours, your arrogance, your pollution, your bad food, on and on. The American people are fine; your government under Bush 2 sucks. The world outside of the US has already elected Obama. Now, be men, shut the hell up, and endure the shift in the political climate. It's for your own good, you fat greedy morons. Get out of your cars, take a walk, skip a meal, and try using your brain and envisioning the possibility that you live in a world community. We all live on this planet, and you seem to think you own it all for yourselves. Guess what? Time for you to grow up, America. Electing a black man will help you remember that black men and women built most of your country for you for free. Obama a socialist -- you have no idea what the hell you're saying.

Hey just so we can better judge if your advise is good for us or not, could you tell us what country you live in?

[TheOtherIgor]

The word "socialism" and "socialist" has been dumbed down to the point where any form of spreading the wealth is considered socialist. Under that broad definition, all forms of government are at least partly socialist. All governments demand taxes from the people, against the people's will. The goverments then use -- or spread -- that wealth for what is considered the common good. When the government forces me to pay taxes and then spreads that money amongst the military, it is a socialist act by the common definition of socialism.

Before a few of you get nasty, I'm not talking about a nuanced understanding of socialism. I'm talking about the way the term is thrown about here and everywhere. The meaning gets lost because you're not talking about specific points as much about the concept of the government taking our money and spending it. That latter concept labels all forms of government as socialist. Once you start using the term too loosely, you can't be anti-socialist if you're not also anti-government. For an anarchist, even the most fiscally conservative among you are still "socialist".

So stop saying this or that is socialist. If you want to convince anyone, be specific about your objections to a policy or a proclamation. What should or shouldn't the government be spending money on and how should that money be accumulated? What are the downsides? If you can do that without invoking the buggaboo term (or some synonym), you've started making more sense.

Edited by TheOtherIgor, 06 November 2008 - 05:57 PM.