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There's More Future in Your Future


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#1 Bruce Klein

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 06:17 PM


There's More Future in Your Future
http://www.techcentr...om/120203E.html

By Michael Fumento Published 12/02/2003

For millennia, hucksters have sold worthless baldness remedies ranging from yogurt to dung. You could also buy any number of longevity potions. But now there are two FDA-approved baldness drugs. Get ready for biotech drugs and therapies that will result in many readers of this article living well into the 22nd century.

Life expectancy has already steadily increased in the past century from 47 to 77 years. But that's measured from birth and is almost entirely because more people are living to become old, rather than older people living longer. Essentially, it's a measurement of a dramatic drop in infant mortality. But the new treatments will actually extend lifespan, far beyond the widely-accepted 120-year limit.

One approach to literally reversing aging involves telomeres. These are tightly coiled threads of DNA that form a protective cap on the ends of each of our chromosomes. The DNA shortens each time the cell divides until the cell cannot divide anymore. Then our bodies start to decline.

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But scientists from Geron Corporation and the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas showed in the lab that by adding the enzyme telomerase to human cells, they could make them into little Eveready Bunnies. They just kept on dividing and dividing.

Later they stunned the scientific community when they showed that telomerase restored the youth of aging human skin tissue that had been attached to the backs of mice. Consider that as you celebrate your 100th birthday you could have skin that's as clear and smooth as the proverbial "baby's behind" -- without the diaper rash.

But scientists are following many longevity paths. By my latest count, there were about eight sets of researchers working on eight different ways of manipulating genes to allow us to live longer. Far longer.

For example, Italian researchers have created what they dubbed "Methuselah Mice" after the person in Genesis said to have lived 969 years (and who personally bankrupted the Social Security and Medicare systems of his time.)

These rodents lived a third longer than normal apparently for no other reason than that one of their genes had been switched off. It's too early to say for sure, but it appears this particular gene tells the body's cells to die. It also seems to play a role in cancer, so eliminating it may independently reduce the risk of malignancies.

And in case you're wondering, flipping genes on or off is not rocket science. It can often be done with the application of a simple drug like tetracycline.

Will the Italian experiment lead to an approved human therapy? Most rodent successes don't survive the arduous journey through human clinical trials that must demonstrate the treatment to be both safe and effective. But with so many labs following so many paths and new paths being discovered, inevitably some will succeed.


Further, "I don't think a 30 to 40 percent [increase in lifespan] should be considered as some kind of maximum," according to Dr. Tomas Prolla, a geneticist specializing in aging at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

Another route to the same end involves the long-observed phenomenon that creatures from worms to mammals live much longer if placed on a severely calorie-restricted diet. It's assumed this would work in humans, but to what avail in a country where two-thirds of us are overweight?

MIT professor Leonard Guarente, however, wants us to have our cake and live longer too. He's discovered a gene called Sir2 that appears to keep in check many other genes that promote aging. But Sir2 is also involved in metabolism, so overloading it with more than a bare minimum of calories keeps it from its anti-aging task.

Various methods tested in yeast, worms, and fruit flies, however, have kept Sir2 going strong even in the face of a Wendy's Classic Triple with Everything. One is to call in reinforcements, namely adding in extra copies of Sir2. Another is to give the test creature a drug that decreases an enzyme that also hobbles Sir2. This made fruit flies live as much as 50 percent longer.

The Sir2 thesis hasn't yet been tested in animals, but as University of California, San Francisco biochemist Cynthia Kenyon said regarding genetic regulation of aging, if "it happens in both worms and fruit flies, you have to be crazy to think it won't happen in vertebrates."

Don't expect any of the gene-related anti-aging therapies to be marketed for a decade, but there may be something you can buy right that could put off that date with the grim reaper.

A process called oxidation, in which loose electrons bouncing around our cells and wreak havoc, promotes both aging and cancer. "In essence, we're rusting, says renowned Berkeley biologist Bruce Ames. But do antioxidant supplements slow that process?

No one can say for sure yet, but many studies have shown antioxidants to be effective in warding off diseases closely tied to aging. One recent 16-month study of Parkinson's patients showed that those taking high doses of the antioxidant coenzyme Q-10 had an astounding 44 percent less decline in mental function, movement and ability to perform daily living tasks than the placebo group.

Ames himself has developed a supplement combining a powerful antioxidant plus an antioxidant promoter, sold under the brand name Juvenon. He concedes he doesn't know yet how much it will help humans but it's worked wonders in numerous rat tests. "They could get up and do the Macarena," Ames says.

Perhaps, though I've been taking Juvenon since it was introduced and still haven't learned the Macarena. But based on the available studies I also take the antioxidants coenzyme Q-10, selenium, vitamin B-complex, and vitamins C and E.

Moreover, we won't be spending the last third of our 150-year lives slobbering on ourselves in a wheelchair. This is a worry Francis Fukuyama expressed in his anti-biotech book Our Posthuman Future: Consequences of the Biotechnology Revolution, aptly summarized in a Nature Biotechnology review as seeking "to arouse fear: fear of science, fear of individual choice, fear of the future."

Rather, each of the therapies described or alluded to in this article won't just extend life but also extend the period of time before decrepitude.

Because there's been so much talk of biotech anti-aging breakthroughs, it was probably inevitable that naysayers would pop up to say it's all bunkum. Nobody in our generation, or even our children's generation, will live significantly longer than they do now, they insist.

"A life expectancy at birth of 100 years, if it ever occurs, is unlikely to arise until well past the time when everyone alive today has already died," said S. Jay Olshansky of the University of Illinois at Chicago at a March 2001 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

France and Japan will not reach a life expectancy at birth of 100 years until the 22nd century, he said, while Americans won't hit the century mark until the 26th century. "The rise in life expectancy in the future will be measured in days, weeks and months -- not in decades, as some proponents of extreme longevity predict."

But making predictions about the condition of the human race in 500 years readily pulls you out of the "scientist" class and plunges you smack into the realm of Nostradamus. All Olshansky and his fellow nay-centenarians are doing is using circular reasoning along the lines of, "I've never been in a fatal accident; therefore I never will be in a fatal accident." More specifically, they're simply looking at past trends.

Imagine a similar projection of electronic technology from 40 years ago. Virtually nobody would have conceived of desk-top computers that double in speed every 12-18 months, or bandwidth that doubles far faster, or the Internet itself. Yet Olshansky is willing to make a prediction for half a millennium from now.

Similarly, Leonard Hayflick of the University of California at San Francisco, one of the leading figures of gerontology, wrote in Nature magazine in November of 2000, "There is no evidence to support the many outrageous claims of extraordinary increase in human life expectancy that might occur in our lifetime or that of our children." His evidence? Extrapolation of data from the U.S. Census Bureau, the U.S. Social Security Administration, and from a group of the world's industrialized countries. This says nothing more than "since there were no breakthroughs in the last 20 years, there will be none in the next 20 years." How many people must have said the same thing about baldness remedies?

And shortly after Hayflick's commentary appeared, researchers in Science magazine announced that by causing a gene mutation they succeeded in getting fruit flies to live as much as 85 percent longer. "What's exciting about these findings is that they suggest that there is a genetic system common to all animals that regulates aging," lead author David Gems of University College London told Reuters Health. "If we could just tap into the mammalian version of that system it might be possible to retard or even reverse human aging."

Claiming that all of the anti-aging work described here will pan out would be foolish indeed. But claiming that absolutely none will is far more so. In part, that's because lifespan extension is a goal that to many of us has an incredibly high value and offers research institutions and companies awesome financial incentives.

Oracle software CEO Larry Ellison's philanthropy alone, the Ellison Medical Foundation, is granting awards of about $20 million yearly to promising anti-aging projects. While most of the foundation's money goes to infectious disease research, Ellison has plenty of billions more to plow into both. Thus far, however, his limit is probably not his generosity but rather the size of the scientific community working on aging-related therapies. But that's changing.

"Aging [research] used to be a stepchild, but now a lot of good people are finally getting into it," Ames told me. As the population ages, longevity research will become more and more attractive to scientists. It all creates an expanding "virtuous circle." "Biology -- including longevity research -- is going like a rocket now with help from the genomics revolution and computers," says Ames.

"People tend to underestimate how fast the aging field is moving," adds MIT's Leonard Guarente. "We're uncovering the molecular basis of aging. No, we're not at a point where we can intervene in humans yet. But we have every reason to be hopeful that day will come."

None of this is to be confused with immortality, the quest for which greatly concerns Leon R. Kass, chairman of the President's Council on Bioethics. Kass says society should "resist the siren song of the conquest of aging and death." But his argument concerning aging really doesn't come down to much more than "It just doesn't seem right somehow."

As to immortality, Kass need not fear. Even reversing aging cannot confer eternal life. There are creatures that appear to be genetically programmed to live indefinitely, but something always catches up to them. With a tree it could be a disease, fire, or a chainsaw. With a lobster it could be a trap. Immortality means eternity, and as a subset of infinity 150 years is the same as 75.

But Kass is right to say that lifespan extension isn't inherently a good thing. Personally I'd rather see a therapy that compels people to make better use of the lifespans they have, rather than waste them watching each new "Meet Joe Millionaire for the 10th time" or "America's Funniest Home Autopsies." But like all biotechnology, lifespan extension is merely a tool. It's up to us how it's used.

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Michael Fumento (fumento@pobox.com) is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. and a syndicated columnist with the Scripps Howard News Service. He is the author of the new book, BioEvolution: How Biotechnology Is Changing Our World. (www.bioevolution.org)

#2 Bruce Klein

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 06:17 PM

Dear Michael,

As founder of the Immortality Institute, a nonprofit with he mission to end the blight of involuntary death, I enjoyed your recent article, 'There's More Future in Your Future'. http://www.techcentr...om/120203E.html

On the face of it, the following idea seems valid.

--As to immortality, Kass need not fear. Even reversing aging cannot confer eternal life. There are creatures that appear to be genetically programmed to live indefinitely, but something always catches up to them. With a tree it could be a disease, fire, or a chainsaw. With a lobster it could be a trap. Immortality means eternity, and as a subset of infinity 150 years is the same as 75.--

However, will this hold true even after future technological advancements? As life progressively finds better and more effective ways to protect itself, will this still hold true?

Bruce Klein
Founder, Immortality Institute For Infinite Lifespans
http://www.imminst.org

#3 reason

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 07:08 PM

I'd sent the following:

----------------------
You turned out a great article at Tech Central Station (http://www.techcentr...om/120203E.html) - it's good to see more positive opinions on healthy life extension and the possibilities of research being voiced. Since it's a field you have an interest in, you might want to bookmark the healthy life extension news and activism site I run, the Longevity Meme:

http://www.longevitymeme.org

It's a softly-softly effort to bring more people into the fold of thinking and acting positively about longer, healthier lives. The underlying position is explained at: http://www.longevity...e_extension.cfm.

A more radical - but still scientific - group and a large online community can be found at the Immortality Institute (http://www.imminst.org). They are also involved in supporting a number of pro-life-extension projects, such as a book, the Methuselah Mouse prize, and so forth.

I would assume that you are aware of Dr. Aubrey de Grey's noteworthy efforts in promoting anti-aging research and radical life extension? You can find out more at the following sites (the last of which is a transcript of Dr. de Grey debating Dr. Richard Sprott, Executive Director of the Ellison Medical Foundation, a very interesting read):

http://www.methuselahmouse.org
http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/
http://www.sagecross...3transcript.cfm

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

----------------------

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

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#4 Bruce Klein

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 07:27 PM

Very cool.. thanks Reason.

#5 Bruce Klein

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:51 AM

Reply From M. Fumento:

Yes, because by definite immortality is forever. As with the lobster and the
5,000-year-old tree SOMETHING has to catch up to you, whether it's a
terrorist attack or a safe falling on your head. Or consider the lottery.
Any intelligent person knows how stupid playing the lottery is. But fact is,
buy just one ticket a week infinitely and you will win. In fact, you'll win
repeatedly even if it takes every ten million years to do it. On the upside,
maybe people will find they don't WANT to be immortal. For everybody, the
age at which they would just as soon expire will be different. But it's
possible that a good percentage of the population really won't want to live
past 150 even in good health. We have no data to go by. In that sense,
living to 150 would be as much "immortality" as they want. Fascinating to
think about.

Best,
Michael Fumento
www.fumento.com
Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute
Medical/Science Columnist, Scripps Howard Syndicate
Order Michael Fumento's new book, BioEvolution: How Biotechnology Is
Changing Our World Today, at: http://www.bioevolution.org

#6 Bruce Klein

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:55 AM

More about M. Fumento...

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Michael Fumento is an author, journalist and attorney specializing in science and health issues. He is a science columnist for Scripps-Howard and a Senior Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC. He received his undergraduate degree while serving in the Army, where he achieved the rank of sergeant. In 1985 he was graduated from the University of Illinois College of Law.
He has been a legal writer for the Washington Times, editorial writer for the Rocky Mountain News in Denver, and was the first "National Issues" reporter for Investor's Business Daily.

Mr. Fumento was the 1994 Warren T. Brookes Fellow in Environmental Journalism at the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, DC, a fellow with Consumer Alert in Washington, DC, and a science correspondent for Reason magazine.

Mr. Fumento was a nominee for the prestigious National Magazine Award. His articles have appeared around the world, including Readers' Digest, The Atlantic Monthly, Forbes, The New Republic, USA Weekend, The Washington Monthly, Reason, The Weekly Standard, National Review, Policy Review, and The American Spectator. He's published in such newspapers as Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, The Sunday Times of London, The Sunday Telegraph of London, the Los Angeles Times, Investor's Business Daily, Washington Times, and the Chicago Tribune.

Mr. Fumento was a nominee for the prestigious National Magazine Award. His articles have appeared around the world, including Readers' Digest, The Atlantic Monthly, Forbes, The New Republic, USA Weekend, The Washington Monthly, Reason, The Weekly Standard, National Review, Policy Review, and The American Spectator. He's published in such newspapers as Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, The Sunday Times of London, The Sunday Telegraph of London, the Los Angeles Times, Investor's Business Daily, Washington Times, and the Chicago Tribune.

Mr. Fumento has lectured on science and health issues throughout the nation and the world, including Great Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Greece, Austria, China, and South America. He has authored five books: The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS (excerpt here); Science Under Siege; Polluted Science; The Fat of the Land(excerpt here); BioEvolution: How Biotechnology Is Changing Our World .

Michael Fumento lives in Arlington, VA with his wife, Mary, and their two cats. His older work is available online.

Read interviews with Fumento: Michael Fumento Loves Role as Dispeller of Modern Myths (Insight on the News, Sept. 29, 1997); and Hudson's Science and Health "Mythbuster" Challenges Misrepresentation of Facts (Visions, Winter 2000); as well as other press coverage.
Buy from Amazon.com

Site by Beachfront Web Design
©2003, Michael Fumento

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http://www.bioevolution.org/bio.html

#7 Bruce Klein

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 06:02 AM

Thanks for your reply. It's rare to find an author of your stature willing to discuss the prospect of physical immortality openly. There seems to be a negative stigma attached to the topic.

If you don't mind, I have still a few questions.

All of your examples are true for life grounded in biology. A creature that lives long enough, such as a tree, will eventually succumb to lightning and eventual death. This is a statistical certainty. Stand in one place long enough, bad things will happen.

However, aren't humans a tad bit different? How is it that humans know to come inside when they hear lightning? Obviously, in this regard, humans have some added capability not readily available to trees. Humans have the ability to prepare for and avoid potentially dangerous scenarios.

This still doesn’t answer the question of living in a body, however. A body will eventually meet with danger given enough time. Whether it takes 100 or 1,000,000 years, if something bad can happen (risk), it will happen.

So, as a way to counter the so-called falling safes problem, humans, I think, will create networked consciousness. We now have thoughts and ideas within our skulls. However, we will eventually link our brains to outside sources. This will give humans the ability keep backups and/or running copies in real-time of consciousness. The backups will be located in multiple geographic locations.


---- Incidentally and optimistically, all of our biological ancestors didn't live short brutish lives. Bacteria have been found today to still be alive after 250million years: http://search.csmoni...fp2s2-csm.shtml


Thanks for your help.

Bruce Klein
Founder, Immortality Institute For Infinite Lifespans
http://www.imminst.org

#8 reason

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 10:08 AM

His reply to me:

--------
Thanks, I'll check it out. I called Sprott once and he was very defensive. I
think it's because the media has portrayed Ellison as essentially terrified
of death and that's not the image a software superman wants to portray!

Michael Fumento
www.fumento.com
Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute
Medical/Science Columnist, Scripps Howard Syndicate
Order Michael Fumento's new book, BioEvolution: How Biotechnology Is
Changing Our World Today, at: http://www.bioevolution.org
-------------

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

#9 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 03:48 AM

REPLY...

Good points. I've always believed if it can be imagined it can be done. My
point was that BIOTECH wasn't going to bring immorality, unless perhaps
combined with machinery in which case we're talking about cyborgs and not
what I talk about in the book at all.

Michael Fumento

#10 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 04:02 AM

Michael,

Thanks for the reply.

>Good points. I've always believed if it can be imagined it can be done. My
>point was that BIOTECH wasn't going to bring immorality, unless perhaps
>combined with machinery in which case we're talking about cyborgs and not
>what I talk about in the book at all.
>
I'm assuming you didn't talk about cyborgs in your book because it's not an area where you're familiar?

It may be helpful to understand the underlying motivation of why individuals wish to extend lifespan. While most would think that life-extenders are selfish and interested in vanity.. I would suggest they simply believe that death = oblivion.. and thus do everything they can to continue to live.

Do you believe that death = oblivion?

By the way, I don't want you to feel that your time is waisted in replying to me. You may wish to know that I've started a thread at ImmInst concerning your article. ImmInst members are likely to benefit from your thoughts on this issue.

Bruce Klein
Founder, ImmInst.org

#11 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 04:51 AM

Reply...

As a skeptic, I keep my mind open as to what death is. I have seen no
convincing evidence either way.

Michael Fumento

#12 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 05:09 AM

>As a skeptic, I keep my mind open as to what death is. I have seen no
>convincing evidence either way.

This goes to the heart of the problem. No evidence and no indication either way. Yet, most of us seem to have inclinations. Sadly, most people choose to accept a more optimistic scenario... heaven, etc. Then there are those of us who seek proof and think more deeply about it.. atheist and skeptics like yourself. Yet, it seems they choose to stay somewhat quiet about what death is, taking a wait and see approach.

Do you choose to wait and see?

Sorry if my questions are personal... I don't want to pry.

Bruce Klein

#13 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 08:02 PM

REPLY...

My best friend has perfectly designed heaven in her own likeness, even to
such details as that I'll be the one to take her there! (None of which makes
my wife jealous, since she doesn't believe in heaven.) Must be nice! I'm not
an atheist. The available scientific evidence indicates to me the presence
of a creator. BUT the question is, would the creator give us eternal life?
On the one hand, why? On the other hand, I am my cat's "daddy." I love that
cat like nobody's business. Would I give her eternal life? You bet.

Regarding death itself, I spent four years in special ops albeit not in
combat. That said, I've seen too many things to fear death. If oblivion it
be, I'm ready. I don't need to fabricate heaven scenarios.

Michael Fumento

#14 Bruce Klein

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:19 AM

Randy Wicker brought a recent Fumento article to my attention:

Who's afraid of biotech?

Jerusalem Post, By Michael Fumento, Jan. 15, 2004

> Virtually everything good that you've heard about biotechnology is true.
> It's making inroads against killers such as cancer, heart disease, and
> stroke. It's stopping other diseases for which until recently the best
> treatment was an aspirin. Biotech crops will provide malnourished peoples
> with enough calories to turn them into American-sized butterballs.
>
> But to many, biotech has a dark side. They fear cloning humans to rip out
> their organs as replacements, turning our offspring into ubermenschen, and
> distorting the whole concept of what it is to be human.
>
> Happily, though, almost all of the bad about biotech would be senseless,
> scientifically impossible, or far more readily done through alternative
> technologies such as bionics. Or the developments actually don't seem very
> unusual - much less scary - when considered in a broader context.
>
> Consider the idea of growing human clones for replacement organs, with
> some terrifying scenarios depicting headless bodies connected to life
> support until the organ is required.
>
> But already biotechnology is fabricating organs such as bladders and even
> relatively complex ones such as penises. The immorality of murdering a
> human aside, why grow and sustain a whole person for an organ you may
> never need when you can buy an individual organ "off the rack" or have it
> specially made for you?
>
> Not all controversial applications of biotech lie in the realm of fantasy,
> though. A real scenario is the use of stem cells from human embryos, which
> many see as violating the sanctity of human life. Even those who don't
> feel that way must recognize that others do, and thus it leaves biotech
> with a black eye.
>
> But it's often the case with biotechnology that new advances eliminate
> older problems. In the last two years, three different US labs have found
> evidence that three different types of non-embryonic stem cells - those
> taken from adults, umbilical cords, or placentas - appear to be able to
> mature into any cell in the body. Even if all three labs fail, so many
> different non-embryonic stem cells have been found that can be converted
> into so many different types of mature tissue that there should be no need
> for "one-size-fits-all" stem cells.
>
> Researchers whose reputations are built on embryonic research and require
> funding to keep their labs going often insist that non-embryonics are
> overrated or even worthless. But non-embryonics have actually been used
> therapeutically since the 1980s for limited purposes such as treating
> leukemia, even as embryonics are only now moving into animal testing.
>
> WHAT ABOUT what is called "germ-line" gene-alteration to "improve" the
> human race as a whole or at least your line of descendants? Research will
> eventually allow changing such genetic attributes as intelligence or
> appearance. Johns Hopkins University political science professor Francis
> Fukuyama devotes many pages to this in his book Our Posthuman Future:
> Consequences of the Biotechnology Revolution.
>
> But most of Fukuyama's fears have already come to pass through other
> technologies, albeit ones that cannot be passed down genetically.
> Improving your child's looks is as easy as something called "cosmetic
> surgery." Improving his or her IQ is as simple as flicking off the TV and
> putting away the video games.
>
> The argument that the rich will have better access to germ-line therapy
> also falls flat; the rich have better access to everything. For example,
> wealth can promote higher intelligence even as the child is in the womb by
> providing better nourishment. After that it can be used to pay for the
> best pre-schools, schools, and tutors.
>
> In any event, the most efficient way to create super-humans will never be
> with biotech.
>
> The technology is inherently limited by the genes that God and nature have
> provided us. You can turn them on or off or move them from one organism to
> another, but a gene can never do what it wasn't intended to.
>
> But bionics, the use of implanted computer chips and electronic or
> electro-mechanical devices, has no such limits.
>
> Bionics has already brought us "neuroprostheses" such as the cochlear
> implant that popular American talk show host Rush Limbaugh received. First
> approved back in 1984, these bypass the normal hearing mechanism to
> provide artificial hearing to deaf people. Next stop: superhuman hearing.
> Implanted retinal chips are providing limited vision to those who were
> completely blind but will surely eventually bring superhuman vision.
>
> Then there are implantable computer brain chips. These are already used to
> control the tremors of Parkinson's and the seizures of epilepsy. But again
> the therapeutic will lead to the super. Already monkeys have been given
> the ability to move a robot arm and a computer cursor with their thoughts
> alone. The same signals that enable a small arm to pick up food could just
> as easily move a wrecking crane.
>
> Chips being tested in animals will soon increase people's range of senses
> beyond hearing and seeing. Through wireless connections such as the
> already-ubiquitous WiFi (80211.x ), they will allow invisible
> communication with others directly to and from the brain and thus bypass
> the eyes, ears, and mouth. They will enable consistent and constant access
> to information where and when it is needed, with no annoying pop-up ads.
>
> Fukuyama also frets over the likelihood that biotech will allow us to live
> to be 150 and beyond; but, illustrating the problem of a social scientist
> suddenly turned life science commentator, he speculates we will live those
> last 50 years bedpan-bound and drowning in drool.
>
> Yet of the incredible array of such therapies under development that would
> slow, stop, or even reverse aspects of aging, all would extend not just
> life itself but also the period before decrepitude. Moreover, probably
> before any of these therapies is available, biotech will have cured some
> of the cruelest diseases of aging, such as Alzheimer's.
>
> Dr. Leon Kass, chairman of the President's Council on Bioethics, urges us
> to "resist the Siren song of the conquest" of death. But he sets up a
> straw man. Even reversing aging cannot confer eternal life. There are
> organisms that appear genetically programmed to live indefinitely, such as
> certain trees and turtles. But something catches up to them eventually, be
> it a chainsaw or somebody hungry for turtle soup. Likewise, biotech cannot
> confer immortality.
>
> But Kass is on firmer ground when he questions lifespan extension, if only
> because he does so with non-scientific arguments. The best of them might
> be summarized as Why give people more years when they seem so intent on
> wasting the ones they have, plopped in front of the tube for hours on end
> watching other people's "reality" because they don't have one of their
> own? The only answer is that just as a knife that can be used for slicing
> or for stabbing, biotechnology is a tool; nothing more. What can be
> accomplished with that tool is literally miraculous. What will be is up to
> us.
>
> The writer, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC, is
> author of BioEvolution: How Biotechnology Is Changing Our World. His
> website is www.fumento.com.

#15 randolfe

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 06:13 PM

Bruce, a few postings above you say:
"So, as a way to counter the so-called falling safes problem, humans, I think, will create networked consciousness. We now have thoughts and ideas within our skulls. However, we will eventually link our brains to outside sources. This will give humans the ability keep backups and/or running copies in real-time of consciousness. The backups will be located in multiple geographic locations"

While the concept is intriguing, I find myself worried about meddling and outside control (even spying) of a stored backup or "running copies in real-time of consciousness".

Also, I notice Bruce Ames is quoted in the original article. I met Bruce Ames. He and his daughter were customers of mine. We had a fabulous conversation about the threat to science posed by President Bush and the Christian Right.

I didn't know till later that he was as renowned as he is. He is another person you might research and attempt to get some responses from. Feel free to mention my name as a member of the Immortality Institute.

Randolfe Wicker
Retired owner of Uplift. Inc., an Art Deco lighting store in NYC.

#16 Bruce Klein

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:04 PM

Thanks Randy.. I'll keep your offer in mind when contacting Bruce Ames. He acknowledged, but declined participating in the ImmInst Book Project. Yet I hope to build a relationship with him.


While the concept is intriguing, I find myself worried about meddling and outside control (even spying) of a stored backup or "running copies in real-time of consciousness".


This will be a problem. However, this is really nothing new. Phone lines are tapped, we are videoed in stores and in public. Viruses infect and steal info from our computers. Thus, I suspect we should expect privacy invasion in the future.. however, the effort to thwart such mischievous behavior will be formidable. Take for example the gains in forensic detective work (DNA, etc) in catching criminals today.. Regulating forces do become better with better tools and accumulated experience. Note that homicide rates are down considerable over the past 100 yrs.

How does the above scenario relate to networked existence, you may ask?

Well, it's hard to say with any certainty.. I hesitate to predict specific scenarios.. but the I have a general sense from looking at history that it is highly likely entities will live in a multi-space via networks - linked by wires/satellites/and/or other stuff we haven't invented yet.

As an immortalists, I see technology which gives continuance (life) a leg up over discontinuance (death) the most likely scenario in general over time. However, I shy away from being blindingly optimistic. There will be stumbling blocks along the way.

#17 Bruce Klein

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:07 PM

This is you, right Randy?

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http://www.americand...om/about_us.htm




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