9 replies to this topic

[steelsky]

In trying to optimize absorption of supplements by bypassing the gastrointestinal track, is inhaling an acceptable method of "taking" some substances? And if any of you is familiar with such methods - can you please share?

Everybody knows that orally is the worst way of getting stuff inside your body. I just figured that alternative ways, albeit unconventional or arduous, complicated and uncomfortable, might be worth discussing.

(For example, there are some guys on the Resveratrol forum trying to come up with cocktail "shakes" for maximizing its bioavailability, but they did not consider (or publically post) any methods of inhaling it, which might not be a bad idea).

[Centurion]

Concerns about absorption via the lungs even being possible notwithstanding, wouldn't inhalation of some substances cause serious lung irritation?

[Mixter]

For a lot of things would be extremely irritating and
damaging to lung tissue. I guess you could vaporize or inhale
a few things, like the fat soluble vitamins, but not a lot.
Regarding resveratrol, it might be possible to sniff small
amounts with something like HPMC, but it's just a wild
guess, you might end up clogging your sinuses.

But if you want higher resveratrol absorption, the way
to go would be buccal, i.e. keep in mouth for several
minutes. By-mouth absorbance of resveratrol may be
very high (see references in its wikipedia article), perhaps
even better with some alcohol added. Other things you
could absorb like this are plant polyphenols like green tea
and pomegranate, if you can take the bitter taste and
possible tooth discoloration.. it will even offer significant
antibacterial benefits vs. just swallowing.

Anyways, the list of things you can take like this is limited.

[steelsky]

For a lot of things would be extremely irritating and
damaging to lung tissue. I guess you could vaporize or inhale
a few things, like the fat soluble vitamins, but not a lot.
Regarding resveratrol, it might be possible to sniff small
amounts with something like HPMC, but it's just a wild
guess, you might end up clogging your sinuses.

But if you want higher resveratrol absorption, the way
to go would be buccal, i.e. keep in mouth for several
minutes. By-mouth absorbance of resveratrol may be
very high (see references in its wikipedia article), perhaps
even better with some alcohol added. Other things you
could absorb like this are plant polyphenols like green tea
and pomegranate, if you can take the bitter taste and
possible tooth discoloration.. it will even offer significant
antibacterial benefits vs. just swallowing.

Anyways, the list of things you can take like this is limited.

The buccal idea sounds like a good one. I would be happy to see some companies embrace the "radical" methods of some "heavy supplementers" such as us, and add some substances more suitable for that, such as with added sweeteners. Of course, there are some sublingual pills, but not many.
Also - how would I know which supplement is "absorbable" via mouth tissues (gums and inner cheeks)?

[Mixter]

The buccal idea sounds like a good one. I would be happy to see some companies embrace the "radical" methods of some "heavy supplementers" such as us, and add some substances more suitable for that, such as with added sweeteners. Of course, there are some sublingual pills, but not many.
Also - how would I know which supplement is "absorbable" via mouth tissues (gums and inner cheeks)?

Agree, some companies offering specially designed products would be neat...

Any small molecules with few or no polar groups, i.e. no proteins/peptides but many
alkaloids, most notably polyphenols, should be absorbable through the mouth.

Of course some of them might only make very few people gag, and some of
them could give you an extra portion calcium from destroying your own teeth
(avoid anything with a pH < 5 or > 10, such as ALCAR, and acetyl-anything).

[steelsky]

For a lot of things would be extremely irritating and
damaging to lung tissue. I guess you could vaporize or inhale
a few things, like the fat soluble vitamins, but not a lot.
Regarding resveratrol, it might be possible to sniff small
amounts with something like HPMC, but it's just a wild
guess, you might end up clogging your sinuses.

But if you want higher resveratrol absorption, the way
to go would be buccal, i.e. keep in mouth for several
minutes. By-mouth absorbance of resveratrol may be
very high (see references in its wikipedia article), perhaps
even better with some alcohol added. Other things you
could absorb like this are plant polyphenols like green tea
and pomegranate, if you can take the bitter taste and
possible tooth discoloration.. it will even offer significant
antibacterial benefits vs. just swallowing.

Anyways, the list of things you can take like this is limited.

What you mean is breaking open the capsules and holding the material in your mouth so that it'll absorb via the inner cheeks? How would I know which substances (additionally to the ones you pointed out) can be taken in such a manner? Also, does this mean that anything absorbed in the mouth goes straight to the bloodstream? While the method might be uncomfortable, it offers an enormous advantage for those wanting to optimize absorption.

[Rictas]

I was going to try buying a bottle of saline solution nasal spray, empty a 500 mg capsule of resveratrol into it and use that to to obtain a higher bioavailability. That way, a couple of sprays per hour or so should keep my blood levels up and constant and it would be easy to carry around and minimize irritation. From what I've read about resveratrol... should be ok.

I'm also thinking about the same method for Astragaloside IV but I need more research on that.

What do you think? Am I an idiot?

[edward]

INHALING ------> DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!

Your respiratory system was just not made to be a delivery system for anything but gasses. The whole system has mechanisms for keeping other stuff out (mucus, cilia etc. etc.). Everything besides gasses will just gum up the works, sit around and provide a breeding ground for microorganisms, destroy tissue....ugh

Bad bad idea.

Please don't snort or inject powders, you will just end up hastening your own death... probably not why you joined this board.

PS: Steelsky and any others take a look at the Resveratrol forums, there has been a lot of talk about alternative delivery systems, buccal, sublingual, transdermal as well as methods for increasing absorption, degradation etc. the "Maximizing Resveratrol Effectiveness" superthread might be helpful.

Edited by edward, 27 October 2008 - 04:28 AM.

[steelsky]

PS: Steelsky and any others take a look at the Resveratrol forums, there has been a lot of talk about alternative delivery systems, buccal, sublingual, transdermal as well as methods for increasing absorption, degradation etc. the "Maximizing Resveratrol Effectiveness" superthread might be helpful.

Right, seen it. I think this debate is still relevant for the general discussion.

I've tried taking Res sublingually - I've placed the pill under my tongue and waited for it to dissolve (takes a while, did some work during that time). Sadly, the smell was not just disgusting, it was actually revolting.
BUT - I washed it down (the part that dissolved, while the rest of the pill remained under my tongue) and it was actually not all that bad. I think I can definitely take some supplements with this method, but I need some sweetener to keep in my mouth during which.

So now I ask - which is best? For example, I can still chew a very minty gum during the process, but I'm afraid the materials in the gum would "hurt" the supplement (must contain so much chemicals, they must not be so good). I can "refresh" my mouth with some OJ every 5 minutes, but I don't know whether citrus is a good idea. Just need something with a stronger and overwhelming taste which won't disturb the supplemented substance. Any thoughts about that?

[Rictas]

Actually, the nasal spray method was used in some of the tests I've read when measuring bioavailability... It's not actually inhalation but more akin to the buccal method in where the product is absorb through the mouth and sinuses... however, if the taste or smell is that revolting... I might try another route... also since resveratrol is soluble in saline solution I can't see how this could hurt considering the small quantities per spray over the length of a day as opposed to the full 500 mg in a single dose.

Secondly, I also read that tests were performed to measure resveratrol's viability for COPD and it was found that it was more effective when applied directly to the lungs (test subject was rabbits I think). Once again, if it's dissolved in saline solution it is molecularized and no longer in powder form.

Admittedly, I'm no professional and I would certainly welcome arguments or proof against this in case I misread the results of the tests. Since this stuff cuts deeply into my wallet I really need to find a way to get the most out of it.