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Religion has kept us back


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#1 bacopa

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 09:51 PM


No offense to those who are religious and I have no problem with some of the traditions of religion, but quite simply I believe that religion has kept us back from where we could be technology wise today. I think this is an obvious point that is worth bringing up. There are other things besides relgion that have kept mankind from advancing to where we could or should be but religious opression has been a significant problem. Without bringing up specifics like how the church ostracized Gallileo and countless other scientists from contributing the facts I just want to bring up some general points. First of all we really would be so much more advanced had people just said hey this is the only life we have. Second if organized religion hadn't acted as a govenrment in the first place afterall separation of church and state works and for good reason. Three The minute we start seeing ourselves as the flawed beings that we are is when we will finally start to wake up out of this quagmire of religious opression [angry]

Edited by dfowler, 06 December 2003 - 10:32 PM.


#2 chubtoad

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 10:27 PM

I agree. It is likely that death would have already bean eliminated if there was no religion. But whenever you wish for a different past you have to remember that you probably wouldn't be here if anything was different.

#3 John Doe

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 10:32 PM

How long did the Catholic Church delay the Singularity? How many lives were lost?

#4 bacopa

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 10:32 PM

that whole idea is amazing to me and do you really think that is true? My father who is a scientist doesn't even get that concept!

#5 bacopa

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 10:56 PM

probably quite a bit considering huge gaps of non scientific reasoning like the dark ages. The point is we would have been much further along had organized religion not hindered scientific progress. It's really just a matter of looking at what got done and when. And there has been tremendous suffering as a result of progress being stopped in its tracks luckily we're entereing a much more liberated time...

#6 John Doe

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 11:14 PM

probably quite a bit considering huge gaps of non scientific reasoning like the dark ages.  The point is we would have been much further along had organized religion not hindered scientific progress.  It's really just a matter of looking at what got done and when.  And there has been tremendous suffering as a result of progress being stopped in its tracks luckily we're entereing a much more liberated time...


http://www.law.umkc....als/ftrials.htm

Notice the big gap. What happened between Socrates and Galileo?

#7 bacopa

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 11:56 PM

What are you trying to say specifically? that it's not just religion, well I know that...but it also has been a huge contributing factor..

#8 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 02:30 AM

No offense to those who are religious and I have no problem with some of the traditions of religion, but quite simply I believe that religion has kept us back from where we could be technology wise today.


Than Maybe it's time to get some new Religion :)


The Universal Life Extension Church was created on the first second of the first day of the new millenium, making it not only the first church but also the first religion created in the year 2000. The Universal Life Extension Church is representative of an evolution in theology which promises to change the world of today into the world of tommorrow. The Universal Life Extension Church believes that we can have immortality here on earth. Our mission is to enlighten individuals around the world, as to the scientific reality of life extension and immortality.

#9 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 02:49 AM

With the very best of reasons the United States Government is loath to interfere with anyone's - but anyone's - religious profession or practice if it can possibly avoid such tampering. If certain of our activities appear to be unorthodox, so did those of Emmanuel Swedenborg, Martin Luther, and Joseph Smith, to mention only three. Yet all these founded churches that are today a respectable part of the American scene.

One can hardly forecast such a glorious destiny for the Universal Life Extension Church, Inc, but future legal tests of what may be seen as bizzarre operations of the Universal Life Extension Church, Inc., could result in decisions redefining boundaries between religion and government. Conceivably we could become a prominent part of legal history if we are still free enough, and feel secure enough, to give even the most unorthodox religionist the full protection of our laws.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 19 January 2004 - 07:20 AM.


#10 Omnido

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 05:04 AM

It is interesting to note your mention of the Universal Life Church, who's headquarters are located in my very city, not even 1 mile from where I live. :)

I also acquired a Degree from ULC. Specifically, Theoretical Physics.
It is a great avenue for the basis of seperation from Church and State, namely: The US governemental regulations.

This "Church" isnt one in the A-Typical sense at all. Instead, they promote the expansion of human ideas, concepts, and beliefs, as a means to and end.
That end has always been immortality in one sense or another, just as almost all other religions of the world promote such ideals in order to facilitate usefullness and meaning within a Human Beings otherwise fundamental Causality.
I am also studying for 2 more degrees from the Universal Life Church in an attempt to gain some sort of recognition and credibility.

#11 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 05:23 AM

It is interesting to note your mention of the Universal Life Church, who's headquarters are located in my very city, not even 1 mile from where I live.  :)

I also acquired a Degree from ULC. Specifically, Theoretical Physics.
It is a great avenue for the basis of seperation from Church and State, namely: The US governemental regulations.

This "Church" isnt one in the A-Typical sense at all. Instead, they promote the expansion of human ideas, concepts, and beliefs, as a means to and end.
That end has always been immortality in one sense or another, just as almost all other religions of the world promote such ideals in order to facilitate usefullness and meaning within a Human Beings otherwise fundamental Causality.
I am also studying for 2 more degrees from the Universal Life Church in an attempt to gain some sort of recognition and credibility.


You must live in Modesto Cal. My Church is The Universal Life Extension Church Inc., Close in name. :) Did you know Rev. Kirby Hensley?

#12 Omnido

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 06:41 PM

Actually I do live in Modesto Cali. However the name you are referring to I do not know. Strange though... Hensley does sound familiar...

#13 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 11:37 PM

Actually I do live in Modesto Cali. However the name you are referring to I do not know. Strange though... Hensley does sound familiar...


It should, he was the founder of Universal Life Church, and his wife Linda is, or was President after his death. Perhaps Brother Zimmerman is runnuing the show now.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 08 December 2003 - 05:07 AM.


#14 bacopa

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 04:14 AM

cool stuff first immortal maybe I'll join...but I'll stick to my point [B)]

#15 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 05:28 AM

cool stuff first immortal maybe I'll join...but I'll stick to my point [B)]


Cool, I'll build you a virtual pew should you so decide And you'll love the tithing policy, we think your money belongs in your pocket, not ours. :)

The point I'm trying to get across here with my prior posts is that although science has for the most part been the enemy of most religions, it's not for all religions. Most established religions today will continue to try to retard science, for its spread means increased explanation of human questions and the lessening of the need for a faith based solution.

#16 imminstmorals

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 09:49 AM

American state in its service!

#17 DJS

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 03:22 AM

Most established religions today will continue to try to retard science, for its spread means increased explanation of human questions and the lessening of the need for a faith based solution.


Right on!

#18 shedon666

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 06:34 PM

"We all need someone to Hate" - Carcass

I do not look for a scapegoat as to the fault and/or cause of my what-could-be death. I seek factual element. For example is was previously supplied that of scorn towards a ... "faith based solution". It is not the religions (a non-sentient entity) fault that the stupidity of the humans involved in the religion survive. To blame religion for personal resistance is a copout excuse, and ineffectual method of rooting out the disease focused upon. Religion has helped (because they are not 100% incorrect in philosophy) as much as science and vice versa in both hindering and assisting the aspects of 'immortal' Life. The key elements that truly are detriment to the true representation to the understanding of Life sustained, are things like Lie, hypocrisy, deceit, false representation, false leads, dependacy, hate, etc etc, which are found in both todays science and religion, not to metion everyday politics, which govern, enpower, support and hinder the way we live. In addition to the negative aspects found in both science and religion there are positive ones as well, therefore defiling the need to spotlight and chastise only one side of the coin.

#19 Utnapishtim

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 07:45 PM

Shedon...

The problem is one of methodology. Faith based belief systems ARE a problem because they do not provide a mechanism for the correction of error.

By contrast the scientific method is the greatest system for the discovery of truth ever developed.

I go into greater detail on the problems with faith based belief systems here

http://imminst.org/f...56&t=1232&st=20

Faith based views do not improve over time except as the proponents of those views die and get replaced. Evidence based views can be continuously improved upon and refined.

I do not deny that people are accountable for their actions but the argument that religion causes suffering merely because people misuse it just doesn't wash.

Much of the suffering is caused by people closely following the instructions within their specific religious instruction manuals. Put simply this material simply isn't very good at what it purports to do. (Teach you how to live)

#20 shedon666

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 08:28 PM

Faith based belief systems ARE a problem .......

thanks for caps on the ARE.

you respond as if i was defending systems of faith. i am not. when i said: "It is not the religions (a non-sentient entity) fault that the stupidity of the humans involved in the religion survive." i was adding to that fact that faith may very well be a crutch for the blind eye and is a problem. in other words, if the mental facility of faith is truly detriment then the fault is inherently of the individuals (not the religion) that choose to enact it. religions are nonsentient vehicles of thought. blaming religions for incorrect workings is like blaming computers for not processing words correctly, for with computers, who programs them? people. any faults in religions are of the creators. therefore it is not neccessarily the religions fault. if a religion tells an individual to 'have faith' that 2+2 will indeed equal 5 some day then it is not the religions fault there is fallicy. it is the writer of that scripture and whatever followers that choose to believe it. if people like you go around blaming religion for inaccurate ways of mind, then it will do nothing more than create more inaccurate realities, for to scapegoat the vehicle of religion for mankinds own stupidity is an inaccurate action. a more mature open-mined considerate approach would be to ponder re-writing religions as inconsistencies are found (if such a thing can be done collectively). science has just as many if not more detriment theory and method as religion. for unrefined but patterned example: the principle that someone has to die in order to find out what is inside the body via autopsy. or, piercing my flesh with a needle to microscopicly view my dna in order to understand my position on Earth and my environment. or freezing myself as an icecube and claiming 'i live forever'. some knowledges are not that of the knowledges of Life. some scientific procedures violate the expansive creative direction of Life and as long as these patterns/methods are still used, blindness will continue to flourish.

if it is your desire to nullify religion then be integral and ignore Christmas (like i do).
and on that note i will add this that i hath found at another forum (it is hilarious).
all are welcome to 'have faith' as to whether the following is true or not.
merry exmass...

SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE: There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit all children (many non-Christian or non-sectarian households excluded), this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each participating and anticipating household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks. This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second--3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour.

The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them- Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch). 600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance- this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip. Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m.p.s. in .001 seconds, would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,500 g's. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering blob of pink goo. Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now.

Edited by shedon666, 19 December 2003 - 08:52 PM.


#21 A941

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 06:29 AM

A thing much more important than the lost chances in our Past are the possibilities of the Future.
Yes, Religion is a dangerous Thing and i have hundreds of examples how religion stopped scientific research and destroyed Human lives, but we are not able to change the past therefor we have to stop the bad influence of religion in the present, Today.




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