15 replies to this topic

[Shannon Vyff]

I was interviewed today by a reporter who is signing up for cryonics with her male partner. She'd read "Hostile Wives" at Depressed Metabolism and was interested in how couples cope when one of them is against cryonics (there are hostile husbands and family members as well).Dr. Robin Hanson (of George Mason University) put me in touch with her (I talked with him today too, he is writing an upcoming piece on the cost benefit analysis of cryonics for Overcoming Bias, the Oxford Future of Humanity Institute blog). The reporter (she is the editor of Reason magazine currently) is looking for couples to interview who are both signed up for cryonics and are happy with it. She is also looking for couples that have conflict, where one is signed and the other is not. A third category that she was interested in talking to was anyone who had problems with dating because they are a cryonicist. (When I dated, I only dated men who were interested in it. It was easier for me to date as I'm female--but I understand that some have had problems with dating and being cryonicists).

If you would not mind talking to her please either post your situation here, or PM me. Thanks

[RighteousReason]

I need a date! lol

[Luna]

Sounds like a very interesting article to be made from this!

I am sure plenty of people here can share their stories on the matter

[lucid]

I'm sure people have written about it, but it just occurred to me how bizarre it would be if a person were put into cryonic suspension early in life to wake up many years later to find his/her spouse had remarried. A little drama is certainly better than dying, but damn that would be quite a situation to be in!

[advancedatheist]

I'm sure people have written about it, but it just occurred to me how bizarre it would be if a person were put into cryonic suspension early in life to wake up many years later to find his/her spouse had remarried. A little drama is certainly better than dying, but damn that would be quite a situation to be in!

Problem? Or opportunity?

Polygamy is the key to a long life

[advancedatheist]

BTW, Robert Ettinger, one of the inventors of the cryonics idea, wrote about cryonics and difficult marriage situations nearly 50 years ago in his book The Propect of Immortality:


Freezers and the Law


Widows, Widowers, and Multiple Marriages

In the Kingdom of Heaven, it is said, there is "neither marriage nor giving in marriage," and of course angels all love one another with indiscriminate determination, so that all the ex- wives and multiple husbands will simply sing in chorus. But on earth the resuscitees may have narrower views, and provision must be made for reunions which may not be entirely blissful.

A common form of the marriage vow says something about "until death do us part." If this be interpreted to mean permanent death, some brides and grooms will surely have second thoughts before promising to spend perhaps thousands of years with the same person. On the other hand, if temporary death is allowed to dissolve a marriage, as at present, and remarriages occur as usual, then many a widow will find herself, after resuscitation, facing two ex-husbands, of whom the less recent, the lover of her youth, is likely to be the dearer.

In a few score years these questions may be meaningless. Who can be sure the institution of monogamy will persist? At present we are thoroughly committed to it, and yet one remembers wryly the moment in Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra when a Briton expresses shock at a Roman custom. Caesar, speaking to another Roman, says: "Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature." Just so; our tribal custom of monogamy is not a law of nature, and may eventually be replaced by . . . what? Perhaps group marriage, or no marriage at all, or marriage determined on a strictly individual basis by contract. With the biological functions and the nature of reproduction itself subject to scrutiny and deliberate change, no one can make a long-range guess with confidence. . .

In the immediate future, some of the problems and their likely remedies are fairly clear.

The first marriage partner to die will leave demands on the survivor not formerly known, demands both emotional and financial. The freezee will want to awaken neither deserted nor impoverished, but to reclaim both his wife and his estate. The wife, on the other hand, may want to inherit everything, and may want to be free to console herself. What to do?

If we are talking about an average couple in the near future, so that the man dies at a moderately advanced age leaving a very modest estate, the result seems clear enough. The widow will be faithful. A decade or so of separation, at an advanced age, is not a high price to pay for emotional security. For the peace of mind of the first to die, this may even be formalized in law; under these circumstances, the widow of a freezee may be legally still married, and no more able to obtain a divorce than the wife of someone in an insane asylum.

Some may object that all this concern is unrealistic. After all, the resuscitees will not be the same people; they will be rejuvenated and overhauled, changed and improved (although not necessarily immediately) in physique and personality. The life will be new in a very drastic sense, and there may be no interest at all in the former spouse.

The answer is that there must be a reasonable amount of continuity, or at the very least the anticipation of a reasonable amount of continuity (in personal relations), for otherwise the future would be too frightening altogether, and motivation would tend to evaporate.

Consider next a more difficult case, say where the survivor, even though aged, breathes a sigh of relief, thinking, "Good riddance to the bum! Thank heavens I don't have to put up with him any more." Or consider the case of a husband or wife dying in middle life, leaving dependent children. Notice I say "consider," not "let us consider," because I have already considered them and find myself fresh out of answers. They will just have to be worked out-somehow.

Before leaving this topic, we might mention one possible solution to the problem of the young widow-one not put forward very seriously, but intended to remind the reader of the vast scope of the possibilities.

It is suggested by a news item relating that, in 1963, it is possible in Japan for a girl to go to a plastic surgeon, pay a fee of $50 to $100, and get herself a new maidenhead. Her groom is thus spared the embarrassment of learning of her previous indiscretions. The next logical step, one presumes, is for the girl to go to a psychiatrist and have him hypnotically erase the memories associated with the original maidenhead!

Then she would be a maiden pure in every sense except that of history-and history, as everyone knows since H. Ford I, is hunk.

Our widow, then, makes the following arrangements. On revival, she lives with the second husband until they can separate by mutual consent - perhaps even until they are tired of each other. Only then is the first husband revived, and the wife meanwhile has her brain washed clean of the second husband by psychiatric or biopsychiatric techniques. Admittedly, the scheme in this simple form raises more problems than it solves, but it is only intended to be vaguely suggestive.

[Shannon Vyff]

ah, but Savage have you ever had a problem dating- say a girl thinking you are weird for any "beliefs" about cryonics?

[RighteousReason]

ah, but Savage have you ever had a problem dating- say a girl thinking you are weird for any "beliefs" about cryonics?

hopefully we will find out soon. i'm most likely signing up next month. I was going to this month but for some crap...

[Shannon Vyff]

Ah well, when I was dating--I was upfront before even having a first meeting, about my being a cryonicist. Anyone that made fun of it, or thought it silly, I discounted--I only dated those that showed interest in cryonics (about half of 30 guys I contacted, out of 150 profiles I'd read through, that had been given to me after a search through 22,000 single men within 100 miles of my area--were actually interested in cryonics). I didn't want to fall in love with anyone that I'd have conflict with later, and it worked out for me but there tend to be less 'techy' girls...

[RighteousReason]

a search through 22,000 singles within 100 miles of my area

What service were you using?

[Shannon Vyff]

Match.com because it had the most users, and an easier way to search (this was summer of 06).

[robomoon]

1st date: Travel to her took eight hours. Meeting for one hour. Guess why she didn't asked me to go immediately when she found out within ten minutes that I even didn't made it to high school? Tired from walking and the bus arrived in two hours. 2nd date: Introduced me to her kids, three healthy, one handicapped. System mismatch: She was taller and I feared she liked to spit on my head. 3rd date: Match, still married after 11 years. Why? Didn't want to get back to her rice field in Southeast Asia. Paid everything to raise new Life-Extensionists. Here http://70.90.133.65/...pic.php?f=2&t=4 it goes on with my remark that she even doesn't want to sign a "Declaration of Intent to be Cryopreserved" as witness.

Discete hint: Hey girls, want to meet a nice boy? Asian,  <img src='http://www.imminst.org/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />  should get a better introduction to Cryonics than I gave him  <img src='http://www.imminst.org/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />  . He's my stepson. Looked at his browser, he's actually at friendster.com where he probably has a profile, location Frankfurt am Main, Germany  <img src='http://www.imminst.org/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Shannon Vyff]

I've heard that, even in my family--the amount of a $28,000 dollar preservation out of one's life insurance is too much of a luxury for a family that is below the poverty line. Robomoon, are your children interested now in cryonics? I could not tell from your posting if they were, and it was your wife who was hostile?

[Korimyr the Rat]

Hmm. Haven't talked this one over with Leslie yet. Like most of my other ideas, she'll probably think it's "weird", but I doubt she'll be hostile.

[Skötkonung]

My solution to cryonics is to simply not bring it up immediately with the people I am interested in dating. Like my belief in atheism, I recognize cryonics is a "hot-button" topic with many.

With my current girlfriend, whom I've been dating for 12 months this December, I did not describe myself as atheist until the last few months. Up until that point, I described myself as secular or non-spiritual. If she had any misgivings about my official designation as an "atheist," she was willing to overlook them based on other positive aspects of my personality. (I would hope the attraction in our relationship is based on more than just one personailty aspect).

Likewise, with the topic of cryonics, I would not immediately tell any girlfriend or potential love interest that I am signed up for Alcor and plan for full-body preservation. Most likely I would simply express my interest in extended lifespans (if the topic came up in conversation) or otherwise postpone the discussion topic for a time later in the relationship. Why does a girlfriend need to know about what you plan to do with your body after "death?"

If I was to become married and my spouse did not share my belief in cryonics, I would try to understand why she believed as she does. Most people I have talked to simply think that cyronics is a waste of money. Personally, I could see a wife being upset that life insurance money would be spent on preserving my body instead of helping my greiving family in the event of my death. In this case I would see a financial palnner to accomodate cryonics into the family budget. If I can't afford it, priorities would need to be established (start a family vs cryonic preservation). As for existing family, I would always place my children and spouse above myself... no contest!

[robomoon]

... are your children interested now in cryonics? I could not tell from your posting ...

The posting is about three dates with three different women. It doesn't tell about my children but my stepson. Yes, the woman in the description of my 2nd date had some, but I married another woman who met me at the 3rd date. The posting should explain that it was very hard to find somebody who was inclined to take me, no matter about my attitude.

She came to Germany from a "developing country" in which my low income happened to be a strong currency. An income which marks the official definition of the poverty line in Germany is enough for a good living in her native region in Southeast Asia. Now with this information it's not hard to figure the main reasons of our marriage. There's a bit of hostility among us deriving from an argument over $28,000 dollars for Life-Extension or for food, travel, accommodation, education, and security for our family.

Well, I've asked the younger one of my kids if he likes Cryonics. Actually, I translate his replies. He stands next to me and says: "I hate Cryonics!" Then he's laughing, "it doesn't work!" So I'm asking: "Why?" He answers: "Because in hundred years or so, the machines will be damaged. Everyone will be death because of an explosion!" Just like me, he talks about existential risks. "How can this happen," I ask. He answers: "Because in thousand years, men may be destroyed entirely!"

All the older kid is thinking about is to save some money to travel to his home abroad where he grew up and had his residence until 2007. He and my wife share the opinion that Cryonics is way too expensive for our family and looks like a Penn and Teller http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26652 joke. So it wouldn't be wrong to leave them money for education and research, would it?

Just a poor freak without Cryonics

Edited by robomoon, 01 January 2009 - 10:46 PM.