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US Presidential (and local) election results


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#61 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 04:49 AM

So very exciting :)

#62 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:17 AM

umm, good?
checks and balances are actually a good thing you know


Our country is in a shambles right now. The last thing we need are some bitter wack jobs trying to toss wrenches into the works. Once the republicans prove that they can act like adults again then they can come back and play. Until then, they need to be taken to the woodshed.


yes, a one party system would just be wonderful.... I know you are happy your team one, but have some perspective.

#63 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:19 AM

It's a historic day for america. Obama is certainly a very intelligent man, and may well make a good president. Lets hope he doesn't carried away down his particular path the same way as the last president did.

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#64 Zenob

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:27 AM

yes, a one party system would just be wonderful.... I know you are happy your team one, but have some perspective.

Power corrupts and the more focused the power the faster it corrupts. The democrats held power for 40 years and pretty much rotted from the inside out. The republicans held power for about a decade and reached the same levels of corruption in 1/4th the time. If the democrats hold power for a prolonged period of time then that will become an issue yet again. However, right now we need a lot of things to get done. Our country has been trashed by the republicans. We HAVE to fix the damage they've done during their time in power and that means getting them out of the way. For the short term we are better off with the republicans out of the picture. Worrying about single party rule is a longer term issue.

#65 TianZi

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 06:11 AM

The tripartite checks and balance system remains intact. The Founding Fathers never intended filibusters to be an essential component of it. If Democrats perform poorly, the electorate will have the opportunity in just two years to restore control of the House to Republicans. And the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary generally are firmly controlled by Republican appointees.

Edited by TianZi, 05 November 2008 - 06:12 AM.


#66 suspire

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 07:06 AM

Well based on results I've see I'm ready to call Barack Obama the winner of this election.

I congratulate the Democrats, and all the people that worked their tails off to help their candidate win.

The results aren't what I hoped for, but I'm an American first before anything else. I have great fear and apprehension for the future of America now, but I hope for the best.



I had thought I'd want to gloat once Obama won, but you know, all I want is for the nation to grow strong and heal some of the bitterness, the divide. I know you have fear for the future of America, but I have hope.

I wish us all well.

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#67 suspire

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 07:08 AM

So very exciting :)


It is, it is! It is a momentous event in our history! I am still pinching myself!

#68 TianZi

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:09 AM

It looks like the comedian Al Franken will narrowly win the race for the Minnesota senate seat. That brings a smile to my face, a result I'm sure Franken would approve of. I wonder if he was inspired by that Robin Williams film of a few years ago.

As regards the other 3 Senate races that haven't yet been called, two are neck and neck with a significant number of precincts yet to report, but GA with 98% in has the Republican candidate with a solid 4% lead. So it appears highly unlikely that Democrats will obtain a filibuster-proof 60 seat majority in the Senate.

#69 .fonclea.

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:57 AM

Obama president...... ouf :)

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#70 Zenob

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 03:24 PM

Oddly enough it looks like the convicted felon Ted Stevens might win his race. Kind of a waste being as how he can't serve in the senate being a convicted felon.... lol

#71 Lazarus Long

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 03:38 PM

Oddly enough it looks like the convicted felon Ted Stevens might win his race. Kind of a waste being as how he can't serve in the senate being a convicted felon.... lol


I believe it allows Palin to appoint his replacement but they may be required to go to a special election if he steps down.

Also Franken and Coleman have less than 800 votes separating them and are forced by law into a recount.

Also here a 3rd party actually took a significant vote and gave neither candidate a clear majority.

#72 Lazarus Long

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:06 PM

Also in the strange but true category, Biden won reelection to the US Senate from Delaware too yesterday and is trying to decide if he will step down soon or after the next governor is sworn in. No doubt he wants some assurances on who will replace him.

Obama will also be replaced by an appointment but like McCain he was not up for reelection this go around.

Another consequence of the actual tally appears to be that rather than move toward the center the actual wins for Republicans appear to be more polarizing around the country as many moderate Republicans appear to be either the losers or did not run for their incumbent seats. Interestingly enough this could make McCain the leader of the moderate wing of the Republicans and the point man for negotiating across the aisle.

#73 suspire

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:25 PM

Also in the strange but true category, Biden won reelection to the US Senate from Delaware too yesterday and is trying to decide if he will step down soon or after the next governor is sworn in. No doubt he wants some assurances on who will replace him.

Obama will also be replaced by an appointment but like McCain he was not up for reelection this go around.

Another consequence of the actual tally appears to be that rather than move toward the center the actual wins for Republicans appear to be more polarizing around the country as many moderate Republicans appear to be either the losers or did not run for their incumbent seats. Interestingly enough this could make McCain the leader of the moderate wing of the Republicans and the point man for negotiating across the aisle.


I was thinking the same thing. I figure Alaska wants Palin to appoint a new Republican Senator--unless the rules call for something else. Don't know exactly how it works in Alaska (or whether there is a federal law overseeing such decisions).

As for Biden, yeah, it depends on whether he's got a better relationship with the standing governor or the new one--and yes, he'd definitely want to make sure his replacement is a good choice and is one who will work closely with the new administration.

And yes, in a weird way, the moderate Republicans have been replaced by more conservative ones, which is...not good. I hope McCain returns to old form and helps lead the Republicans in the right direction in the Senate or it'll be a tough ride for all.

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#74 Iam Empathy

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 08:07 PM

The Republican party consists of many factions, but among the more important are the conservative "base" and fiscal conservatives.

The "base" includes largely illiterate fundies from the deep south who are united in their love for Sarah Palin, hatred of black or colored people, belief in Biblical predestination, including redrawing the map of the Middle East to prepare for the End Times, and religious values such as opposition to abortion and stem cell research, the teaching of creationism, etc.

They pay lip service to fiscal conservatism, mostly in their preference of "small government" but as various statistics show, they are mostly poor and take more than their share of welfare. Tax cuts to the rich do not benefit them, but it's part of their ideology.

They are pro-freedom to the extent of "keep your filthy hands off my guns", but quite clueless about other significant protections to individual liberties offered by the constitution. Hence they go along with government actions that abridge the 1st, 4th, 6th and 8th amendments; they actually defend such loss of liberties as necessary for the "war against turrurism" or "save the chillun", but they fiercely defend the 2nd amendment. Guns give them comfort, even when they are losing other liberties.

Then there are the fiscal conservatives, who pay lip service to social conservative issues such as abortion and gay marriage bans. But their real interest is in protecting the money flow. These are well-to-do people, many of them quite wealthy. They want to protect high incomes and corporate profits. They are also generally smarter, and realize that no party can run this country without the support of middle America.

While the conservative "base" would turn off any moderate voter who came close, with their blatant racism, homophobia, biblical certainties, etc., these fiscal conservatives form the "buffer" to middle America. They are capable of putting their arguments in persuasive and non-offensive words that moderates and independents can agree with, at least until the votes are cast. Many of them are writers, TV personalities, journalists, etc. These are the people we commonly hear on TV. The conservative "base" is largely hidden from middle America, though it does sometimes rear its head, as people saw in McCain rallies where the fundies screamed "kill him". You can get some idea of how they think if you peruse fundie sites like freerepublic. The "base" calls such fiscal conservatives "RINOs" -- Republicans In Name Only.

Fox is a business, so I suspect their philosophical alignment is more with the fiscal conservatives, or RINOs. However, every single successful election for the Republicans involves energizing the "base", therefore there is much pandering to fundies going on, specially during the election cycle. At election times, their interests sort of coincide. The "base" provides the bulk of the numbers and much of the cash, and the RINOs provide the "moderate" commentary that will convince enough of middle America to vote their way, to tip the election.

This election was different in that the fundie base really hated the Republican nominee, John McCain. This kind of thing happens occasionally, because it's hard to find the perfect crossover candidate who can appeal to both fundies and moderates at the same time. McCain is a bit worse than most. What he calls "mavericky", the fundies call "liberalism from hell". His nomination cooled the enthusiasm of the base very considerably.

Things were going really bad, because the Republicans simply can't win without the support of the base. So the leadership did what they thought was a smart thing - they picked Sarah Palin as the VP. Their thinking probably was - here's a candidate who's fundie enough to comfort the base. She's obscure and unknown and therefore not powerful enough to threaten our agenda. She's a woman - that and her obscurity might suddenly focus media attention back on us, and give us the boost we need for the election.

Unfortunately, they miscalculated. Palin didn't just energize the base, she drove them crazy. She is dumb enough to speak their exact language, the words they understand. She's got 5 kids. She's got a Down's baby. She is unreservedly against abortion. She's the perfect fulcrum for the anti-RINO backlash that was building in the base, since the nomination of John McCain. She raised a firestorm that the leadership wasn't prepared for.

The conservative base cannot be reasoned with. Theirs is an all or none viewpoint, you're with them, or you're the enemy. This makes it very hard for the moderate Republicans right now. They need the base, because without it they can't win. But they can't let the base take over the party, because most of them wouldn't want to live in a country governed by the Republican base.

Fox is caught in the middle. They are not trying to appease Obama, they are not trying to make up with the liberals. You can forget that feel-good nonsense. They are simply trying to chart a course between the two factions of the Republican Party. The leadership is playing the blame game right now, since they lost. If they say McCain was a bad nominee, they have to accept at least partial responsibility for it. So they would rather pin the blame on Palin's stupidity. To the base, however, things are exactly the reverse. Fox is trying to be "fair and balanced" between these two viewpoints for the first time in their lives, and finding that "fair and balanced" is exactly what the base hates most.

Fox will need to make a choice. I suspect the choice will be in favor of the base, because ultimately it's the base that brings in the Nielsen ratings that helps them sell ads and pay salaries. So look for a strong pro-Palin tilt to come. After all, the moderate Republicans can be convinced in time that this wasn't personal, it's just business. You could never convince the base of that, to them, everything is personal.

For Democrats, the best approach right now is to support the conservative base as much as possible on the Palin issue. This is a huge wedge that can be driven into the Republican party. Palin is ultimately un-electable. She can mobilize the base like no one else, but that's her limit. She knows all the words that whip up the base to a frenzy. But she doesn't know the words that move middle America, and she is too dumb to master them. Without middle America, without moderates and independents, the Republican Party cannot win a presidential election. Supporting Palin is the surest way to ensure Democratic dominance at the Presidential level for a long time to come.




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