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Invest in FAH!


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18 replies to this topic

#1 poser

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:25 PM


If I sell a few things, I would have around $1700 to invest in DC gear. In the best of worlds, I would produce 50-55K PPD and that would make us #43 or #44 in daily PPD. I'm just writing to get others putting money into this too. It's crazy that just 2 freakin people would even in that case produce 43% of TLM's points - plenty of room for improvement.

What got me excited was this bit by Vijay Pande (project leader):

One could ask "how do you know if you understand the disease?" A good answer is new small molecule drugs which appear to prevent or minimize the effects of the disease. This too is in the works, with encouraging results in the lab (but it's not time to talk about this publicly until it passes peer review)...


I don't want to have AD when I get old so this is really good news (no, I don't know if Pande Group's research will be crucial in the end but I'd say that the possibility is there and it's not small).

Edited by poser, 04 November 2008 - 10:25 PM.


#2 Mind

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 12:13 AM

Thanks for the encouragement Poser!

My next computer is going to be part "super folding rig" with a screaming GPU or two. Plan to purchase in early 2009.

I agree that there are some very exciting things that could come out of Folding@home. Some people have been claiming that Folding@home could simulate entire organelles once it reaches 20 or 30 petaflops. That would be a powerful research tool. What we are trying to accomplish with the F@H prize is to accelerate the push toward peta and exaflop capability. One the Longevity Meme team reaches the top 100 it will really start turning heads. We hope that other teams start to offer prizes to drive competition and more computing power. More power! More power!

#3 dnamechanic

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 01:35 AM

More power! More power!


Increase to Warp 9!

Attached File  Increase_to_Warp_9.wav   14.04KB   224 downloads

#4 sentinel

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 09:01 AM

If I sell a few things, I would have around $1700 to invest in DC gear. In the best of worlds, I would produce 50-55K PPD and that would make us #43 or #44 in daily PPD. I'm just writing to get others putting money into this too. It's crazy that just 2 freakin people would even in that case produce 43% of TLM's points - plenty of room for improvement.

What got me excited was this bit by Vijay Pande (project leader):

One could ask "how do you know if you understand the disease?" A good answer is new small molecule drugs which appear to prevent or minimize the effects of the disease. This too is in the works, with encouraging results in the lab (but it's not time to talk about this publicly until it passes peer review)...


I don't want to have AD when I get old so this is really good news (no, I don't know if Pande Group's research will be crucial in the end but I'd say that the possibility is there and it's not small).


Good effort chap. I've bought 2 PCs and 2 graphics cards for the effort (don't actually play games!) and I've learnt a lot and find the whole thing fun. We need more people like you getting excited about FaH at Imminst :)

#5 kismet

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 06:00 PM

Thanks for the encouragement Poser!

My next computer is going to be part "super folding rig" with a screaming GPU or two. Plan to purchase in early 2009.

Mind do you plan to maxmize points/$ (efficiency) or points/rig and price is no concern? 
I've already mentioned Intel i7 in another post, it's a folding monster, I believe the prize of x58 motherboards should normalise in early 2009 and DDR3 will hopefully be cheaper, maybe such a rig will be able to rival the Q6600 and penryn chips in points/$ then.

#6 Mind

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 06:13 PM

I want to maximize points and price is a concern.

#7 maestro949

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 05:21 PM

I want to maximize points and price is a concern.


What is your price point? Perhaps some of the tech junkies here can start spec'ing something out for you in advance. Would you build it yourself or commission someone to do it for you?

#8 poser

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:07 PM

Newegg is cheap.

Nehalem according to some performance reports on foldingforum seem extremely disappointing.
My suggestion is Q6600 and running Rosetta with that, but FAH isn't too bad either. That's $160. I would not use a dual core,I think it's a waste.

mb: open box 775-GT1-LOGE $35

This can take 3 GPU's. They have good reviews for the price. Also has firewire which is amazing for this price.
takes 667 DDR2 memory. I'm not sure if XP can run 3 GPU's with one thread but Vista for sure but may need more memory.

GPU: recertified EVGA 9600 GSO 384 MB $60

If you're not concerned about warranties, then this is a good one. >5000 PPD and is more energy efficient than 9800 GX2 per PPD.
There is a chart on foldingforum about this, do you want me to go look for it? Also I don't know if this card accepts 6 or 8 pin pci-express.

I checked the power draw of a system much like this with an online utility, and it gave 680W. So be sure to have at least 700W power supply.
There's a thread on foldingforum where someone said that power supplies tend to draw a lot more power when they are taxed to their limits. That person
therefore bought a PSU that had about 20% more power than what he needed. That would equal a 800W supply. Also look that there's enough pci-e connectors.

PSU: hec Zephyr $60 free shipping 750W with plenty connections

I know next to nothing about cases. Chungenhung opened the side of his case but some people on foldingforum have said that well positioned case fans make for much better cooling. Someone know anything in detail?

Edited by poser, 24 November 2008 - 04:35 PM.


#9 kismet

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:37 PM

Newegg is cheap.

Nehalem according to some performance reports on foldingforum seem extremely disappointing.

According to every review I've read - and I've read about 30-40 reviews - Nehalem leapfrogs any CPU ever built for emberassingly parallel problems (and anything heavily multithreaded) in raw performance.
So it would be nice if you could post the thread(s), you could be right however, I've only seen one FAH review of Nehalem, but it was done by the renowned guys from techreport.
http://techreport.co...cles.x/15818/12

But if the platform is judged from a performance/$ or performance/watt/$ standpoint, then it definitely sucks.

My suggestion is Q6600 and running Rosetta with that, but FAH isn't too bad either. That's $160. I would not use a dual core,I think it's a waste.

Did you know we don't have a Rosetta team?

#10 Mind

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:50 PM

My price point is about $1,000. Not sure what I can get for that.

It would be nice to have a Rosetta team as well, but we were already established with F@H and I suggest that we remained focused on it to maximize our influence.

#11 poser

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:23 PM

Why Rosetta for cpu... 1) Rosetta is making a contribution to the science from my unknowledgeable point of view, on par with FAH. 2) They don't have GPU's and so only make do with 80 teraflops. FAH has maybe 400 TFlops CPU power OR MORE. I'm suggesting this from strictly scientific point of view. If you're only interested in visibility for TLM, then dual cores will do.

Btw The FAH statistics suck in that they should show PPD for CPU's separately. Then the FAH price could be divided between CPU folders and GPU folders. That would increase the speed of acquiring CPU's and thus the science.

Yes, as Mind was after good value, I was looking Nehalem at the PPD/W/$ POV.

And Mind, it all depends on what you want, how HQ parts you want or if you're ok with taking some risks. Here's one example, along the lines I described above.

Jetway 775GT1-LOGE $35
Q6600 $160
3 X 9600 GSO $180
PSU hec Zephyr $65
160 GB Seagate HD $42 (Seagate has 5 year warranty)
2 GB 667 memory $28 (4 GB recommended for Vista)
Case with fans $100?
====
$610

About 19-20k PPD.

Edited by poser, 24 November 2008 - 05:41 PM.


#12 platypus

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:57 PM

What is the most powerful fanless GPU? I'm building a machine soon but cannot cope with screaming small fans 24/7. Can I SLI (interleave) two fanless cards for more power also for gaming?

#13 dnamechanic

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:20 PM

My suggestion is Q6600 and running Rosetta with that...

Why Rosetta for cpu...

1) Rosetta is making a contribution to the science from my unknowledgeable point of view, on par with FAH.

Could be, only time will reveal whether this is so, or not. Stanford is tackling a more fundamental problem than is Rosetta. As a result the problem may be more difficult for Stanford.

2) They don't have GPU's and so only make do with 80 teraflops. FAH has maybe 400 TFlops CPU power OR MORE. I'm suggesting this from strictly scientific point of view. If you're only interested in visibility for TLM, then dual cores will do.

Poser, both efforts are worthy. and certainly Stanford is the larger effort.

It is admirable that everyone contributes to Distributed Computing projects.

There is more synergism for the life extension movement by participating with The Longevity Meme team, it helps:

- ImmInst (inspires teamwork and promotes publicity and public awareness)
- The Longevity Meme (advertisement and promotion for one of the best sources of info on the Internet)
- The whole life extension movement (increases public awareness)
- Stanford Scientists & University, and furthers basic science (the last applies to Rosetta as well)

The visibility (publicity) of The Longevity Meme relates strongly to the rank position in the stats pages (there are a few stat sites that are closely watched by thousands of people). For example:

- Stanford Stats and within it: The Longevity Meme Team
- Extreme Overclocking Stats and within it: The Longevity Meme Team
- Kakao Stats and within it: The Longevity Meme Team
- There are others.

Rank position is directly related to points accumulated. The more folders, and the faster computers that the folders have, the higher The Longevity Meme will be ranked.

Some teams have more than 10,000 members, many will be watching as their Rank position may be affected by The Longevity Meme. Largely these folders are unacquainted with Life-Extension, here is an opportunity to introduce them to The Longevity Meme and to ImmInst.

Additionally, There are a large numbers of forums dedicated to computers and gaming that are interested in F@H.

With small effort, everyone can contribute and help this movement.

Here we, as members of ImmInst and The Longevity Meme team, have an opportunity to do something that is, in many ways, very positive.

Btw The FAH statistics suck in that they should show PPD for CPU's separately. Then the FAH price could be divided between CPU folders and GPU folders. That would increase the speed of acquiring CPU's and thus the science.

Stanford has publicly stated that both CPU and GPU contributions are important to the F@H effort. They also try to set the points to relate to scientific value(within limits). There are variations away from the standards, such as bonus points awarded for either extra hardware required, such as:

- Large work units requiring extra download/upload capacity
- Large work units requiring more than normal system RAM
- Work units that have tight deadlines (needing to be worked quickly)
- Work units requiring CPUs with SSE2 processing
- Work units requiring GPU processing

GPUs (and PS3s) can actually do more floating point operations (FLOPs) representing more work than a CPU, but GPUs (and PS3s) are awarded accordingly less per work unit because of the inflexibility of their streaming parallel processors. GPUs (and PS3s) can only fold specific work unit types. CPUs can fold all types.

Generally one can say that points earned reflect the scientific value to Stanford, regardless of their source.

. Here's one example, along the lines I described above...

$610...About 19-20k PPD.

Thanks for the example folding rig, looks like a good compromise of cost/PPD.

Edited by dnamechanic, 25 November 2008 - 03:40 AM.


#14 poser

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:30 AM

Generally one can say that points earned reflect the scientific value to Stanford, regardless of their source.

Not by Pande directly, but I was told in foldingforum that the science they are able to do, is depending on whether people go for GPU's or CPU's.
So as GPU's offer all that power, they are concentrating on research that can be done with GPU's. I don't think the ratio of 10:1 processing power is beneficial, thus points for both separately should be appointed.

#15 poser

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:43 AM

What is the most powerful fanless GPU? I'm building a machine soon but cannot cope with screaming small fans 24/7. Can I SLI (interleave) two fanless cards for more power also for gaming?

How noiseless do you want to go? You should look into 'VGA coolers' and browse those that don't come with a fan. Then you might consider those that allow for larger fans to be used as they are less noisy than the built in ones and that have control over the RPM. The little ones are usually ran without control at full speed, so no wonder they're noisy.

I've heard there are fanless PSU's too so you can do quite a bit if you want to. If you buy a good case ($200-$300) then 250mm fans there would be nice - they can help you better with those on the foldingforum.org. But I suppose you'd be better off buy just running a cheap case open.

I've been considering buying just motherboard trays and then cooling 2 of them with a big conventional fans. People said they are noisy but has anyone tried to hack them becoming less noisy, I'm not sure. Certainly with a setup like that, you have a lot of room for more gear.

Edited by poser, 25 November 2008 - 11:46 AM.


#16 dnamechanic

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 01:04 AM

Btw The FAH statistics suck in that they should show PPD for CPU's separately.

Poser, you may already using this utility FahMon.

FahMon is very good for monitoring your computer's and GPU's folding progress and rates (PPD).

FahMon will show separately your PPD from GPUs and CPUs.

This is a post that describes & illustrates some of FahMon's features.

It takes only a few minutes to download and setup.

#17 poser

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 05:31 PM

Who cares when there's no prize for it? Those CPU PPD's are expensive.

#18 brokenportal

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 05:37 PM

Ive been thinking about getting better and more computers for folding too, but it just occured to me, which is better, buying and setting up more gear, or actively trying to get more people to fold under your name? If anybody has electricity and compuer wear concerns about it then you can offer to split any prize you may win percentage wise amongst them. You can always add more machines of your own of course, but in a quest to bulk up points per day then getting others to help is a good spending of effort. It also holds more potential doesnt it?

#19 poser

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:06 PM

I guess. But I don't have friends really *looks at the ground*

And I guess that with the power saving abilities of today's computers, companies want to save every penny they can. That's just me, but I can see companies starting to warm up to this when the first drugs out of this project come out and experts would marvel how quickly it happened or how good they are, something extraordinary.

I did try for a very short period of time to contact a few foundations and associations for certain diseases and they eventually didn't answer my mails at all and didn't even say that 'It's no use' which I found rude.

Personally I don't have energy to fight through a rock which it would be like to get bigger players interested.




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