263 replies to this topic

[sUper GeNius]

Just trying to get an idea of the beliefs of forum members.

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 11 November 2008 - 06:52 AM.

[luv2increase]

Even though only 3 people have voted including me thus far, I do like what I see.


I am a little afraid the government will try and take my rights away from me when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, therefore, I have been taking preemptive action and buying .38 Special, .45, 12 Gauge shotgun, and a .223 semi-automatic assault rifle along with boatloads of ammunition to go along with them.

I don't know if any of you really know what is going on out there, but many are afraid this will happen.

Fears of Democrat crackdown lead to gun sales boom

By DENA POTTER – 3 days ago

MIDLOTHIAN, Va. (AP) — When 10-year-old Austin Smith heard Barack Obama had been elected president, he had one question: Does this mean I won't get a new gun for Christmas?

That brought his mother, the camouflage-clad Rachel Smith, to Bob Moates Sports Shop on Thursday, where she was picking out that special 20-gauge shotgun — one of at least five weapons she plans to buy before Obama takes office in January.

Like Smith, gun enthusiasts nationwide are stocking up on firearms out of fears that the combination of an Obama administration and a Democrat-dominated Congress will result in tough new gun laws.

"I think they're going to really try to crack down on guns and make it harder for people to try to purchase them," said Smith, 32, who taught all five of her children — ages 4 to 10 — to shoot because the family relies on game for food.

Last month, as an Obama win looked increasingly inevitable, there were more than 108,000 more background checks for gun purchases than in October 2007, a 15 percent increase. And they were up about 8 percent for the year as of Oct. 26, according to the FBI.

No data was available for gun purchases this week, but gun shops from suburban Virginia to the Rockies report record sales since Tuesday's election.

"They're scared to death of losing their rights," said David Hancock, manager of Bob Moates, where sales have nearly doubled in the past week and are up 15 percent for the year. On Election Day, salespeople were called in on their day off because of the crowd.

Obama has said he respects Americans' Second Amendment right to bear arms, but that he favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he'll at least enact curbs on ownership of assault and concealed weapons.

As a U.S. Senator, Obama voted to leave gun-makers and dealers open to lawsuits; and as an Illinois state legislator, he supported a ban on semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on all firearms.

During an October appearance in Ohio, Obama sought to reassure gun owners. "I will not take your shotgun away," he said. "I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away."

Gun advocates take some solace in the current makeup of the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 this summer to strike down the District of Columbia's 32-year ban on handguns. For now, gun rights supporters hold a narrow edge on the court, but Obama could appoint justices who would swing it the other way.

Franklin Gun Shop outside Nashville, Tenn., sold more than 70 guns on Tuesday, making it the biggest sales day since the shop opened eight years ago. Guns & Gear in Cheyenne, Wyo., also set a one-day sales record on Tuesday, only to break that mark on Wednesday.

Stewart Wallin, owner of Get Some Guns in the Salt Lake City suburb of Murray, Utah, said he sold nine assault weapons the day after Obama was elected. That same day, the gun store Cheaper Than Dirt! in Fort Worth, Texas, sold $101,000 worth of merchandise, shattering its single-day sales record, store owner DeWayne Irwin said.

One Georgia gun shop advertised an "Obama sale" on an outdoor sign, but the owner took it down after people complained that the shop appeared to be issuing a call to violence against the country's first black leader.

The president of a Montana gun manufacturer stepped down last month after word that he supported Obama led to calls for a boycott of the company.

While Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, attributes some of the sales boom to the tanking economy, he thinks the Democratic sweep is the top reason why guns are suddenly a hot commodity.

"I don't think he'll be able to stand up to that anti-Second Amendment wing of the Democratic party that's just been spoiling for chance to ban America's guns," LaPierre said of Obama.

During the campaign, the NRA warned that Obama would be the "most antigun president in American history." And while Vice President-elect Joe Biden owns shotguns, he has supported a ban on assault weapons and has said private sellers at gun shows should be required to perform background checks.

But Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor who has written a book about the gun debate, said new firearms regulations will be a low priority for an Obama administration and Democratic Congress facing a global economic crisis and two wars.

"Maybe the gun-show loophole will be closed, but not much else," he said in an e-mail. "I'd be surprised, for example, if Congress enacted a new assault gun ban."

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said his organization will continue to press for what he calls "sensible" restrictions — background checks at gun shows, a ban on military-style assault weapons and cracking down on illegal gun trade. He believes he has the backing of the new administration on those issues, but any fears of a broader crackdown are unfounded.

"The one thing that they agree strongly with us on is that it's too easy for dangerous people to get guns in this country," Helmke said. "I guess if you're a dangerous person you might want to run out there and buy some more, but otherwise you should be OK."

http://ap.google.com...eCiuiwD94AGFIO0

[suspire]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

[luv2increase]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

[sUper GeNius]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I don't think it's possible for an outright ban, now that Heller vs DC has made it clear that the right to bear arms is a fundamental constitutional right. Unfortunately, Scalia was unclear in how far those rights go. In his opinion he said that this right can be subject to regulation. It will take years if not decades for the various lawsuits to wind themselves through the courts.

The reinstitution of the so-called assault rifle ban is the most likely bill to come up for a vote. I'm not sure it will have the votes to pass, as last time, voting for an antigun bill was the kiss of death for may politicians. This time, with so many Democrats in the House and Senate, together with the *perception* that the political will of the country is changing, They might get teh bill passes. In the bill that is now pending, there is also a provision for banning any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Many handguns available today hold 16,17, 18, or even 19 rounds.

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 11 November 2008 - 03:28 PM.

[lightowl]

The reinstitution of the so-called assault rifle ban is the most likely bill to come up for a vote.

It amazes me that you are actually allowed to own an assault rifle. Those things are designed for battlefield scenarios. What on earth would a civilian need such a weapon for? Unless they are afraid a civil war or something is coming. Paranoid people with assault weapons. Not a good combo IMO.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Assault_rifle

Edited by lightowl, 11 November 2008 - 03:45 PM.

[forever freedom]

Anyone capable, with enough mental health, should be allowed to have a gun. Anyone should be allowed to protect himself and his liberty (as long as it doesn't hurt others' liberty) with whatever means necessary.

Edited by sam988, 11 November 2008 - 03:51 PM.

[luv2increase]

The reinstitution of the so-called assault rifle ban is the most likely bill to come up for a vote.

It amazes me that you are actually allowed to own an assault rifle. Those things are designed for battlefield scenarios. What on earth would a civilian need such a weapon for? Unless they are afraid a civil war or something is coming. Paranoid people with assault weapons. Not a good combo IMO.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Assault_rifle

You must be a resident of either the vicinity of the East cost or that of the West coast

Assault rifles can be used for hunting, target shooting, leisure, collecting as a hobby, and self-defense. Now, pertaining to the latter, do you not believe that criminals have assault rifles? If a criminal(s) with an assault rifles enters your house, do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon to defend yourself and/or your family members? You may not know about this sort of thing so I will happily answer for you, the answer is undeniably "no".

[suspire]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I have a hard time taking wing-nut conspiracy theories seriously. So, in truth, I actually do believe Obama is good for gun store owners and their business. The wingnuts come out in droves, fearful that their guns and the like will be taken from them, and business goes through the roof. And in truth, Obama has helped them. Much in the same way that Joe the Plumber had no hope in hell of breaking the 250k salary cap in his lifetime...until he met Obama. Now, for the first time in his life, because of Obama, he may actually have a chance to make big bucks. Once again, thank Obama for it!

[suspire]

The reinstitution of the so-called assault rifle ban is the most likely bill to come up for a vote.

It amazes me that you are actually allowed to own an assault rifle. Those things are designed for battlefield scenarios. What on earth would a civilian need such a weapon for? Unless they are afraid a civil war or something is coming. Paranoid people with assault weapons. Not a good combo IMO.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Assault_rifle

We live in a bizarre country, man. That's all I can say. We live in a bizarre country.

[luv2increase]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I have a hard time taking wing-nut conspiracy theories seriously. So, in truth, I actually do believe Obama is good for gun store owners and their business. The wingnuts come out in droves, fearful that their guns and the like will be taken from them, and business goes through the roof. And in truth, Obama has helped them. Much in the same way that Joe the Plumber had no hope in hell of breaking the 250k salary cap in his lifetime...until he met Obama. Now, for the first time in his life, because of Obama, he may actually have a chance to make big bucks. Once again, thank Obama for it!

You are confused. First you act condescending towards people who value the 2nd Amendment. Second, you think Obama should be thanked for it as if he had something "directly" to do with it, or it was part of his plan or something.


How could he not have any chance in hell of breaking the 250k salary gap? I know a guy who owns a plumbing business who is making well over 500k a year!!! Sure, if you are only a serviceman, it would not be possible, but if you "own" your own plumbing business and sub the work out to your employees of "your" business, that 250k is anything but hard to surpass. Concluding from this statement of yours, I don't think you know much about construction, business, and/or life in general. You have much learning to do. I would choose your words with caution when it deals with things you aren't 100% sure about.

Edited by luv2increase, 11 November 2008 - 04:01 PM.

[lightowl]

You must be a resident of either the vicinity of the East cost or that of the West coast

Im not from the US. In my country we have sane weapon laws.

Assault rifles can be used for hunting, target shooting, leisure, collecting as a hobby, and self-defense. Now, pertaining to the latter, do you not believe that criminals have assault rifles? If a criminal(s) with an assault rifles enters your house, do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon to defend yourself and/or your family members? You may not know about this sort of thing so I will happily answer for you, the answer is undeniably "no".

Thankfully we don't have criminals with assault rifles roaming the streets in my country. Perhaps its because its illegal to own and sell them. Using a weapon of war as a toy should not be a reason to allow ownership. In fact the desire to use it as a toy should raise an alarm IMO. If you want to go hunting, use a hunting rifle. That's what normal people do.

do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon

I don't own any weapons. Im not that paranoid. If Im so unfortunate to be robbed while at home some day, I'd much rather let them take my valuables than fight and risk my life. That might sound strange to you, but I actually value my life more than my possessions.

Edited by lightowl, 11 November 2008 - 04:07 PM.

[luv2increase]

You must be a resident of either the vicinity of the East cost or that of the West coast

Im not from the US. In my country we have sane weapon laws.

Assault rifles can be used for hunting, target shooting, leisure, collecting as a hobby, and self-defense. Now, pertaining to the latter, do you not believe that criminals have assault rifles? If a criminal(s) with an assault rifles enters your house, do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon to defend yourself and/or your family members? You may not know about this sort of thing so I will happily answer for you, the answer is undeniably "no".

Thankfully we don't have criminals with assault rifles roaming the streets in my country. Perhaps its because its illegal to own and sell them. Using a weapon of war as a toy should not be a reason to allow ownership. In fact the desire to use it as a toy should raise an alarm IMO. If you want to go hunting, use a hunting rifle. That's what normal people do.

Then you don't know anything about our crime rate, murderers, crazy people, and gangs here in the States. Your input is irrelevant because you don't know anything about our culture. You probably live in a country where no one cares about locking their doors. Well, here in the States, nearly 99.999% of homes always have their doors locked because of the criminals and thieves that would love to just waltz right on in and do their insane intentions like they would oh so please.

Simply put, it is different here in the US than where you are from. Don't think that banning guns would stop the crime. There will always be guns roaming through the "black market". You have a belief that banning guns would magically cause all the guns to disappear instantaneously, and all crime would subsequently cease because of it. That belief is as false as it gets.

[suspire]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I have a hard time taking wing-nut conspiracy theories seriously. So, in truth, I actually do believe Obama is good for gun store owners and their business. The wingnuts come out in droves, fearful that their guns and the like will be taken from them, and business goes through the roof. And in truth, Obama has helped them. Much in the same way that Joe the Plumber had no hope in hell of breaking the 250k salary cap in his lifetime...until he met Obama. Now, for the first time in his life, because of Obama, he may actually have a chance to make big bucks. Once again, thank Obama for it!

You are confused. First you act condescending towards people who value the 2nd Amendment. Second, you think Obama should be thanked for it as if he had something "directly" to do with it, or it was part of his plan or something.


How could he not have any chance in hell of breaking the 250k salary gap? I know a guy who owns a plumbing business who is making well over 500k a year!!! Sure, if you are only a serviceman, it would not be possible, but if you "own" your own plumbing business and sub the work out to your employees of "your" business, that 250k is anything but hard to surpass. Concluding from this statement of yours, I don't think you know much about construction, business, and/or life in general. You have much learning to do. I would choose your words with caution when it deals with things you aren't 100% sure about.

Joe was making about 40k a year, is 34 years old, owed back taxes, and wasn't exactly going anywhere in his life, from all indications. Your argument that some plumbers make 500k, so Joe would be too, is like saying a pizza delivery boy can make millions, just because the head of Pizza Hut makes millions! Woo-hoo! I love your logic--it makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited by shepard, 11 November 2008 - 09:34 PM.
Removed personal insults

[lightowl]

Your input is irrelevant because you don't know anything about our culture.

Believe it or not, but there are plenty of people in the US who don't own weapons. Just because I don't live in the US does not make me ignorant. Perhaps you feel that way because of your own ignorance about the rest of the world.

Simply put, it is different here in the US than where you are from. Don't think that banning guns would stop the crime. There will always be guns roaming through the "black market". You have a belief that banning guns would magically cause all the guns to disappear instantaneously, and all crime would subsequently cease because of it. That belief is as false as it gets.

I believe banning weapons would make a significant difference on how many guns are available to criminals. It would also make it much easier for police to take those weapons away from criminals. The way you argue by putting words like "magical" and "instantaneously" in my mouth makes me believe that you are an extremist. I don't have any illusions that I will change your mind. The fact that you can own weapons I think is very frightening.

Edited by lightowl, 11 November 2008 - 04:26 PM.

[sUper GeNius]

You must be a resident of either the vicinity of the East cost or that of the West coast

Im not from the US. In my country we have sane weapon laws.

Assault rifles can be used for hunting, target shooting, leisure, collecting as a hobby, and self-defense. Now, pertaining to the latter, do you not believe that criminals have assault rifles? If a criminal(s) with an assault rifles enters your house, do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon to defend yourself and/or your family members? You may not know about this sort of thing so I will happily answer for you, the answer is undeniably "no".

Thankfully we don't have criminals with assault rifles roaming the streets in my country. Perhaps its because its illegal to own and sell them. Using a weapon of war as a toy should not be a reason to allow ownership. In fact the desire to use it as a toy should raise an alarm IMO. If you want to go hunting, use a hunting rifle. That's what normal people do.

do you think your little semi-automatic 9mm is going to be a very effective weapon

I don't own any weapons. Im not that paranoid. If Im so unfortunate to be robbed while at home some day, I'd much rather let them take my valuables than fight and risk my life. That might sound strange to you, but I actually value my life more than my possessions.

That would be great if that all the criminal did, rob you and leave. However, many will put a bullet in your head for good measure. Do you remember the scum that broke into that TV newsperson's house recently? The scum gave her a good beating, she dies a few days later.

[luv2increase]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I have a hard time taking wing-nut conspiracy theories seriously. So, in truth, I actually do believe Obama is good for gun store owners and their business. The wingnuts come out in droves, fearful that their guns and the like will be taken from them, and business goes through the roof. And in truth, Obama has helped them. Much in the same way that Joe the Plumber had no hope in hell of breaking the 250k salary cap in his lifetime...until he met Obama. Now, for the first time in his life, because of Obama, he may actually have a chance to make big bucks. Once again, thank Obama for it!

You are confused. First you act condescending towards people who value the 2nd Amendment. Second, you think Obama should be thanked for it as if he had something "directly" to do with it, or it was part of his plan or something.


How could he not have any chance in hell of breaking the 250k salary gap? I know a guy who owns a plumbing business who is making well over 500k a year!!! Sure, if you are only a serviceman, it would not be possible, but if you "own" your own plumbing business and sub the work out to your employees of "your" business, that 250k is anything but hard to surpass. Concluding from this statement of yours, I don't think you know much about construction, business, and/or life in general. You have much learning to do. I would choose your words with caution when it deals with things you aren't 100% sure about.

Joe was making about 40k a year, is 34 years old, owed back taxes, and wasn't exactly going anywhere in his life, from all indications. Your argument that some plumbers make 500k, so Joe would be too, is like saying a pizza delivery boy can make millions, just because the head of Pizza Hut makes millions! Woo-hoo! I love your logic--it makes no sense whatsoever, most of the time, but it is always good for plenty of laughs!

And I'd love to take a poll of the forum and see where the community stood on which one of us is clueless about "life in general".

Do you not know anything about owning your business? Do you not know that people who own a plumbing business aren't just sole-proprietors?

Do you not know that a "guy" or "woman" can own a plumbing business and have "hundreds" of employees working for him? That "guy" is the "business owner". He "subs" the work out. I don't think you know what this word means or the economics of any construction business to be honest with you. This word means that he owns a business. Customers come to him asking for a "quote". Let's say he quotes the customer $3000. He sends "his" workers out to the job and pays them either hourly or gives them a flat fee. Usually, it is hourly. Let's say the job takes 2 workers 12 hours to complete. That is 12 hours of pay at let's say $20 an hour. That means the "the business owner' gives his 2 man crew for that job a total of $240 between the two of them. That is $120 a piece. The "business owner" like what Joe the Plumber wants to be would get a total of $2760 for that "one" job. I hope you get the point now. Sorry, if I took it hard on you. It's just that I figured that you knew how businesses worked. I've worked as a tile-setter and a roofer in my lifetime, so I know how all this works.

Edited by shepard, 11 November 2008 - 09:32 PM.
Removed personal insults

[lightowl]

That would be great if that all the criminal did, rob you and leave. However, many will put a bullet in your head for good measure. Do you remember the scum that broke into that TV newsperson's house recently? The scum gave her a good beating, she dies a few days later.

My point is that the risk of dying of murder is relatively low. TV should not dictate a world view.

That would be great if that all the criminal did, rob you and leave.

But the fact is that this is exactly what happens in by far the most cases. Actually most robberies are done when nobody is home.

Look at the statistics.

http://www.nationmas...ries-per-capita

#17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people

Risk of burglary in the US: 142 to 1

http://www.nationmas...ders-per-capita

#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

Risk of being murdered in the US: 23364 to 1

http://www.nationmas...ath-from-cancer

#9 United States: 321.9 deaths per 100,000 people

Risk of dying of cancer in the US: 310 to 1

Edited by lightowl, 11 November 2008 - 04:47 PM.

[suspire]

Woo-hoo! Obama has helped gun shop owners by increasing their sales! Man, they should vote for a second term for him; he's already great for the economy and for gun store owners!

Are you always sarcastic to matters which you don't care about? Do you not have respect for those individuals who take something personal?

I have a hard time taking wing-nut conspiracy theories seriously. So, in truth, I actually do believe Obama is good for gun store owners and their business. The wingnuts come out in droves, fearful that their guns and the like will be taken from them, and business goes through the roof. And in truth, Obama has helped them. Much in the same way that Joe the Plumber had no hope in hell of breaking the 250k salary cap in his lifetime...until he met Obama. Now, for the first time in his life, because of Obama, he may actually have a chance to make big bucks. Once again, thank Obama for it!

You are confused. First you act condescending towards people who value the 2nd Amendment. Second, you think Obama should be thanked for it as if he had something "directly" to do with it, or it was part of his plan or something.


How could he not have any chance in hell of breaking the 250k salary gap? I know a guy who owns a plumbing business who is making well over 500k a year!!! Sure, if you are only a serviceman, it would not be possible, but if you "own" your own plumbing business and sub the work out to your employees of "your" business, that 250k is anything but hard to surpass. Concluding from this statement of yours, I don't think you know much about construction, business, and/or life in general. You have much learning to do. I would choose your words with caution when it deals with things you aren't 100% sure about.

Joe was making about 40k a year, is 34 years old, owed back taxes, and wasn't exactly going anywhere in his life, from all indications. Your argument that some plumbers make 500k, so Joe would be too, is like saying a pizza delivery boy can make millions, just because the head of Pizza Hut makes millions! Woo-hoo! I love your logic--it makes no sense whatsoever, most of the time, but it is always good for plenty of laughs!

And I'd love to take a poll of the forum and see where the community stood on which one of us is clueless about "life in general".

Geezz, you sure are the most ignorant of the bunch. Do you not know anything about owning your business? Do you not know that people who own a plumbing business aren't just sole-proprietors?

Do you not know that a "guy" or "woman" can own a plumbing business and have "hundreds" of employees working for him? That "guy" is the "business owner". He "subs" the work out. I don't think you know what this word means or the economics of any construction business to be honest with you. This word means that he owns a business. Customers come to him asking for a "quote". Let's say he quotes the customer $3000. He sends "his" workers out to the job and pays them either hourly or gives them a flat fee. Usually, it is hourly. Let's say the job takes 2 workers 12 hours to complete. That is 12 hours of pay at let's say $20 an hour. That means the "the business owner' gives his 2 man crew for that job a total of $240 between the two of them. That is $120 a piece. The "business owner" like what Joe the Plumber wants to be would get a total of $2760 for that "one" job. I hope you get the point now. Sorry, if I took it hard on you. It's just that I figured that you knew how businesses worked. I've worked as a tile-setter and a roofer in my lifetime, so I know how all this works.

I am not going to pull out my balls and weigh them on the table. You probably wouldn't believe my background if I explained it anyway, since this is the internet and anyone can claim anything. That said, I'll simply say: I come from a highly successful corporate family that owned its own company. Additionally, I will also say separate from our corporate life, due to certain circumstances (mostly our work in the non-profit sector), I know quite a bit about construction, both in the U.S. and overseas. I am well aware that people in construction can make lots of money.

What you don't seem to get is that while there is an extreme minority of people involved in construction who make loads of money, most are...average Joes. And Joe the Plumber, with his background, credentials and the direction his life was taking pre-Obama, showed no sign of breaking the 100k mark, much less the 250k mark. Now, if you want to show me the percentage of plumbers in America who make 250k+ out of the overall total number of plumbers in America, go for it. Please include numbers for plumbers who at the age of 34, are only making 40k and owe back taxes, but then go on to surpass the 250k mark later in life. If it exceeds even 25% percent of all plumbers in America, I'll concede to you that you might have a point about Joe's chances. But since you don't seem to get it unless it is drummed into your head: Obama helped Joe, financially, a whole lot more than Joe would have ever been able to do for himself considering his track record.

If you want to continue to babble on about this, go for it. I can only respond a limited time to such stupidity.

Edited by suspire, 11 November 2008 - 04:52 PM.

[lightowl]

Just go with the flow, man. We feed him every once in awhile and let him roam free. Everyone's happy, then.

Hehe, yep. Im just trying to provide a counter-balance because I find this subject important.

[suspire]

Just go with the flow, man. We feed him every once in awhile and let him roam free. Everyone's happy, then.

Hehe, yep. Im just trying to provide a counter-balance because I find this subject important.

I do, too. But it is a lost cause with some people.

[lightowl]

I do, too. But it is a lost cause with some people.

I have come to accept that most often forum discussions will not change participants minds. It is those who are reading with an open mind that might be influenced. Not that it makes much difference though. Its actually mostly a waste of time, but good entertainment none the less.

[lightowl]

http://www.nationmas...ries-per-capita
http://www.nationmas...ders-per-capita

Also, the risk of burglary in Denmark is significantly higher than in the US, but the risk of murder is significantly lower. This suggests that there is no correlation between burglary and murder ( at least across countries ). It could be that Denmark have a higher rate of burglaries because of the lowered risk of getting your head blown off by some wackjob with a shotgun, but that's just speculation.

#3 Denmark: 18.3299 per 1,000 people
#17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people

Risk of burglary in the US: 142 to 1
Risk of burglary in the DK: 54 to 1

#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
#53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000 people

Risk of being murdered in the US: 23364 to 1
Risk of being murdered in the DK: 94339 to 1

Edited by lightowl, 11 November 2008 - 05:11 PM.

[lightowl]

http://www.nationmas...ties-per-capita

Just for those really paranoid people out there.

#23 United States: 10.813 per 1 million people

Risk of dying from terrorist attacks 1968 - 2006 (38 years) in the US: 1,000,000 / 10.813 * 38 = 3,514,288 to 1

[Shepard]

This is a friendly reminder for all to stay on topic. A couple of posts have been removed that were condescending and insulting to other posters. Some comments were also removed. Please leave past conflicts in the past and take each thread on its own merits.

[inawe]

This is a friendly reminder for all to stay on topic. A couple of posts have been removed that were condescending and insulting to other posters. Some comments were also removed. Please leave past conflicts in the past and take each thread on its own merits.

With no conflicts, what do we need the guns for?

[eternaltraveler]

guns should be banned for everyone except me.

[sUper GeNius]

http://www.nationmas...ties-per-capita

Just for those really paranoid people out there.

#23 United States: 10.813 per 1 million people

Risk of dying from terrorist attacks 1968 - 2006 (38 years) in the US: 1,000,000 / 10.813 * 38 = 3,514,288 to 1

Statistics-smistics. I carry a tiny 12 oz aluminum alloy/titanium barrel Smith & Wesson, a 340PD. It disappears in a pocket and light as a feather. I forget it's in there. But it's always ready with 5 hollowpoint rounds of 357. My version of pepperspray.

[RighteousReason]

What a stupid poll.

The 2nd amendment was put in place for people to protect themselves from the government. For the government to put any restriction on that... minus for criminals, the insane, etc... is exactly in violation of the letter and the spirit of the law.

Do you believe one is personally responsible for his own and his family's protection from criminal elements?

Can you make this question more vague and open to interpretation? What the hell are you even asking?

Individuals should be allowed guns for use in the home.
Guns should be allowed for use inside the home and for concealed carry.
Guns should be banned

Is this a joke? Who uses their gun INSIDE their home? What could possibly be the purpose of that? Do you have any idea what guns are used for or why people have them? Do you even know what a gun is?

Do you believe gun control laws make for safer communities?

Do you feel that communities with more liberal guns laws are safer communities because of these laws?

It is a fact that in geographical areas where guns are restricted and outlawed only outlaws have guns. It is a fact that these communities have higher crime rates, higher homicide rates, and are less safe- on many different levels of abstraction. This has nothing to do with beliefs or feelings. If you want to verify the basic facts, just Google it.

Edited by Savage, 12 November 2008 - 12:34 AM.

[RighteousReason]

http://www.nationmas...ties-per-capita

Just for those really paranoid people out there.

#23 United States: 10.813 per 1 million people

Risk of dying from terrorist attacks 1968 - 2006 (38 years) in the US: 1,000,000 / 10.813 * 38 = 3,514,288 to 1

Statistics-smistics. I carry a tiny 12 oz aluminum alloy/titanium barrel Smith & Wesson, a 340PD. It disappears in a pocket and light as a feather. I forget it's in there. But it's always ready with 5 hollowpoint rounds of 357. My version of pepperspray.

... nice