12 replies to this topic

[desperate788]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

[Matt]

"The researchers found a twenty-seven percent increase in GABA levels in the yoga practitioner group after their session, but no change in the comparison subject group after their reading session"
http://www.scienceda...70521145516.htm

[Zoroaster]

I don't want to turn this into another debate about the Braverman test. But unless you have other symptoms of GABA deficiency, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Imagination]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

ummmm....how about taking GABA!

Where can I find that test? Might have a crack myself.

[desperate788]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

ummmm....how about taking GABA!

Where can I find that test? Might have a crack myself.

here you can take the test,

http://www.pintochir...m/php/sec1a.php

gaba is said to not crossing blood brain barrier.

"The researchers found a twenty-seven percent increase in GABA levels in the yoga practitioner group after their session, but no change in the comparison subject group after their reading session"
http://www.scienceda...70521145516.htm

thanks I'll work on more meditation and yoga.

[desperate788]

I don't want to turn this into another debate about the Braverman test. But unless you have other symptoms of GABA deficiency, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

yes I understand. By the way my result is 31 gaba deficient.

Edited by desperate788, 22 November 2008 - 09:31 PM.

[desperate788]

There are things I don't understand with gabaergic system. First, you all know it's not certain if it crosses blood brain barrier..But thas not the point. Drugs for epilepsy works on gabaergic system and benzodiapins work on gabaergic system too but their effects are very different. I mean you can't get the anti anxiety effect with an epilepsy drug like neurontin but it is related with gaba. Can brain store gaba? Thats an other important thing ı think of. Valerian is said to be related with gaba, its effects are different too. Theanine an other example though you get whats expected from a gabaergic, relaxation with it.

[Guacamolium]

There are things I don't understand with gabaergic system. First, you all know it's not certain if it crosses blood brain barrier..But thas not the point. Drugs for epilepsy works on gabaergic system and benzodiapins work on gabaergic system too but their effects are very different. I mean you can't get the anti anxiety effect with an epilepsy drug like neurontin but it is related with gaba. Can brain store gaba? Thats an other important thing ı think of. Valerian is said to be related with gaba, its effects are different too. Theanine an other example though you get whats expected from a gabaergic, relaxation with it.

Gabaergic processes share diversity much like other neurotransmitter systems. Something that is an agonist to the gaba B complex is not going to have the same effect as something that is an agonist to the gaba A complex, and even more specifically the benzodiazepine sites on gaba A, for instance. You have to think of all the subunits that are getting targeted on the receptor complex - gaba A has several subunits, gaba B has 2, and gaba C has 3. Different substances target different parts and ignore others within the gabaergic system itself, thereby producing different results.

[desperate788]

There are things I don't understand with gabaergic system. First, you all know it's not certain if it crosses blood brain barrier..But thas not the point. Drugs for epilepsy works on gabaergic system and benzodiapins work on gabaergic system too but their effects are very different. I mean you can't get the anti anxiety effect with an epilepsy drug like neurontin but it is related with gaba. Can brain store gaba? Thats an other important thing ı think of. Valerian is said to be related with gaba, its effects are different too. Theanine an other example though you get whats expected from a gabaergic, relaxation with it.

Gabaergic processes share diversity much like other neurotransmitter systems. Something that is an agonist to the gaba B complex is not going to have the same effect as something that is an agonist to the gaba A complex, and even more specifically the benzodiazepine sites on gaba A, for instance. You have to think of all the subunits that are getting targeted on the receptor complex - gaba A has several subunits, gaba B has 2, and gaba C has 3. Different substances target different parts and ignore others within the gabaergic system itself, thereby producing different results.

thanks, I understood what you told.

[Imagination]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

ummmm....how about taking GABA!

Where can I find that test? Might have a crack myself.

here you can take the test,

http://www.pintochir...m/php/sec1a.php

gaba is said to not crossing blood brain barrier.

"The researchers found a twenty-seven percent increase in GABA levels in the yoga practitioner group after their session, but no change in the comparison subject group after their reading session"
http://www.scienceda...70521145516.htm

thanks I'll work on more meditation and yoga.

Cheers!

Well that was painful to go though same questions 80 different ways, turns out I'm gaba defiecent too! Not all that convinced though! Done a bit of searching and it seems every one who does it comes up with GABA defiecency. But everything else is completely fine. Does this guy sell something to do with GABA!?

Going to try some theanine then to see if that cures 99.9% of my problems as serotonin, dopamine and acetylcholine where all fine according to the test, I do take things to boost these though but nothing for GABA. Theanine isn't cheap mind.

[desperate788]

Done a bit of searching and it seems every one who does it comes up with GABA defiecency. But everything else is completely fine. Does this guy sell something to do with GABA!?

[medicineman]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

ummmm....how about taking GABA!

Where can I find that test? Might have a crack myself.

here you can take the test,

http://www.pintochir...m/php/sec1a.php

gaba is said to not crossing blood brain barrier.

"The researchers found a twenty-seven percent increase in GABA levels in the yoga practitioner group after their session, but no change in the comparison subject group after their reading session"
http://www.scienceda...70521145516.htm

thanks I'll work on more meditation and yoga.

Cheers!

Well that was painful to go though same questions 80 different ways, turns out I'm gaba defiecent too! Not all that convinced though! Done a bit of searching and it seems every one who does it comes up with GABA defiecency. But everything else is completely fine. Does this guy sell something to do with GABA!?

Going to try some theanine then to see if that cures 99.9% of my problems as serotonin, dopamine and acetylcholine where all fine according to the test, I do take things to boost these though but nothing for GABA. Theanine isn't cheap mind.

OK, im just going to say it one more time, because it seems like my last post concerning braverman test was obviously ignored. Braverman, is a quack. A freakin quack, who promotes pseudoscience. He is no different than the people that wrote the secret, or the intention experiment. He is the same as holford who wrote the nutrition bible. NOT EVERYONE with DR. or PhD behind their name makes them legit.........

About gaba, GABA does NOT CROSS THE BBB....... Take a million gaba tablets, and ur wasting ur time, money, and probably giving urself a bit of indigestion.

braverman is a promoter of CHELATION therapy. This shit is supposed to drive out heavy metals in your body, but it ALSO drives out essential trace nutrients, that regulate cell growth and APOPTOSIS. If you want to live long, you want to stay away from chelation therapy. They give chelation therapy to people with diseases like hemachromatosis or wilsons disease, but there is no reason for ANYONE to take chelation therapy, yet some people do..... for the same reason they take GABA. except one might do you harm, the other does your pocket harm. Braverman also promotes DIETARY changes over essential anti-hypertensive medication... Yea sure,, take away all those ACE inhibitors and betablockers, and lets see how Bravermans nutritional medicine helps. 95% of hypertension is Primary, as in there is no known reason for it,,,, and the most likely is genetic factors. If you get hypertension, you have it, and you carry it like luggage. And if you follow bravermans advice, ur gunna end up in a sorry condition.... Yes, obesity can lead to hypertension, and so can bad diet... But there is a genetic basis for it, thats why many people dont get hypertension, while others do, despite their diet and weight. And obesity has a genetic basis,, and so it is a vicious circle. Obesity, genetics, increases risk for hypertension, which is strongly suggested to be genetic. Genetics arent everything of course and we can change and beat genetic odds sometimes, but what Braverman is doing is the same as those wankers selling snake oil to cure cancer. He has no scientific backing to any of his claims, and I CANNOT believe he has an assessment to assess ur transmitter deficiencies....

CMON people.... im starting to get a feeling as if im in a scientology forum rather than a life enhancing/extension forum.

About GABA, its made into the brain when glutamate crosses the BBB and than is converted into GABA. Note one of us has a dietary-related GABA deficiency unless you live in a third world country, and even then, there is no population based DATA pinpointing it, meaning it doesnt even happen in the worst dietary conditions.. If you actually do have GABA deficiency, and the only way you would find out is by a Cerebrospinal fluid analysis, than it is more likely a problem in GABA receptors, or GABA transaminase overactivity, which is very rare......... And so the question is, how do we increase Gaba levels in the brain??? I cant answer that, but valium, phenibut, etc all potentiate GABA, but remember they also bind to GABAb receptor, which is BAD for your cognition... So, yes, phenibut is not a nootropic. Its a stupid drug.

here is a text by a very respectable, a REAL scientist, Mathew Jones, Assistant Professor
Ph.D., 1993, Pharmacological and Physiological Sciences, University of Chicago, about GABA:

"
I agree with this. GABA doesn't cross membranes per se, although it can
be actively transported by a variety of carriers, or leak through
epithelial junctions or through certain osmoregulatory anion channels.
But that's all beside the point. The fact is that GABA uptake in the
brain is so powerful that if you bath apply 1 mM GABA (a lot more than
you would expect from an oral dose) onto the surface of a hippocampal
slice (in which issues of access to the tissue are unimportant), you
evoke very little GABA response in the neurons because most of it gets
taken up before it can do anything. On the other hand, if you perform the
same experiment with muscimol (a GABA-A receptor agonist that is not a
substrate of the GABA transporters), or use GABA in the presence of
uptake blockers, you get a humungous response. The tissue is therefore
responsive, but it has built-in mechanisms for making sure that GABA has
only very local effects right around the synapses where it is released.
So I find it dubious that there would be a direct sedative effect of
taking GABA orally, for the very reasons mentioned in the original post.

Having said that, there are drugs (benzodiazepines, barbiturates) that
can be taken orally, cross the BBB, get to the brain, and strongly
potentiate GABAergic transmission to cause sedation or anesthesia. These
drugs aren't GABA agonists, but rather are "positive allosteric
modulators" of the GABA-A receptor. Also, there are specially designed
GABA-A receptor agonists (e.g. THIP, paper by Cheng and Brunner about ten
years ago I think) that do cross the BBB, and have been used to induce
clinical anesthesia in humans by intravenous injection."


So this brings one drug to mind. Picamilone. This drug, cleverly made, by combining nicotinic acid and GABA, and thus it can cross the BBB. How this drug works is by basically, it crosses the BBB, splits off nicotinic acid, flooding your brain with GABA and therefor it exerts its cellular affect on GABAergic receptors. Now im gunna make an educated hunch. GABA is a very important inhibitory transmitter, and fluctuations in GABA amount
will cause reaction to counteract that... take picamilone for a long time, and you will get GABA receptor insensitivity, mimicking GABA deficiency, once you stop.. I am assuming chronic use, than cold turkey will cause Dopamine rebound, and possibly seizures. If you think you have GABA deficiency, it might be from trace element deficiency, which is the more likely explanation. Also, vitaminb6 is important for the conversion of glutamate to GABA. The only way I can see a 'fix' in GABA deficiency is by using novel drugs, known as Selective GABA reuptake inhibitors, or GABA-transaminase inhibitors. And these drugs cause sedation and confusion in patients,
exactly what you would expect in an increase in GABA.

[desperate788]

I'm gaba deficient according to braverman test. What to do to fix gaba problem? theanine, benzodiapins what else?

ummmm....how about taking GABA!

Where can I find that test? Might have a crack myself.

here you can take the test,

http://www.pintochir...m/php/sec1a.php

gaba is said to not crossing blood brain barrier.

"The researchers found a twenty-seven percent increase in GABA levels in the yoga practitioner group after their session, but no change in the comparison subject group after their reading session"
http://www.scienceda...70521145516.htm

thanks I'll work on more meditation and yoga.

Cheers!

Well that was painful to go though same questions 80 different ways, turns out I'm gaba defiecent too! Not all that convinced though! Done a bit of searching and it seems every one who does it comes up with GABA defiecency. But everything else is completely fine. Does this guy sell something to do with GABA!?

Going to try some theanine then to see if that cures 99.9% of my problems as serotonin, dopamine and acetylcholine where all fine according to the test, I do take things to boost these though but nothing for GABA. Theanine isn't cheap mind.

OK, im just going to say it one more time, because it seems like my last post concerning braverman test was obviously ignored. Braverman, is a quack. A freakin quack, who promotes pseudoscience. He is no different than the people that wrote the secret, or the intention experiment. He is the same as holford who wrote the nutrition bible. NOT EVERYONE with DR. or PhD behind their name makes them legit.........

About gaba, GABA does NOT CROSS THE BBB....... Take a million gaba tablets, and ur wasting ur time, money, and probably giving urself a bit of indigestion.

braverman is a promoter of CHELATION therapy. This shit is supposed to drive out heavy metals in your body, but it ALSO drives out essential trace nutrients, that regulate cell growth and APOPTOSIS. If you want to live long, you want to stay away from chelation therapy. They give chelation therapy to people with diseases like hemachromatosis or wilsons disease, but there is no reason for ANYONE to take chelation therapy, yet some people do..... for the same reason they take GABA. except one might do you harm, the other does your pocket harm. Braverman also promotes DIETARY changes over essential anti-hypertensive medication... Yea sure,, take away all those ACE inhibitors and betablockers, and lets see how Bravermans nutritional medicine helps. 95% of hypertension is Primary, as in there is no known reason for it,,,, and the most likely is genetic factors. If you get hypertension, you have it, and you carry it like luggage. And if you follow bravermans advice, ur gunna end up in a sorry condition.... Yes, obesity can lead to hypertension, and so can bad diet... But there is a genetic basis for it, thats why many people dont get hypertension, while others do, despite their diet and weight. And obesity has a genetic basis,, and so it is a vicious circle. Obesity, genetics, increases risk for hypertension, which is strongly suggested to be genetic. Genetics arent everything of course and we can change and beat genetic odds sometimes, but what Braverman is doing is the same as those wankers selling snake oil to cure cancer. He has no scientific backing to any of his claims, and I CANNOT believe he has an assessment to assess ur transmitter deficiencies....

CMON people.... im starting to get a feeling as if im in a scientology forum rather than a life enhancing/extension forum.

About GABA, its made into the brain when glutamate crosses the BBB and than is converted into GABA. Note one of us has a dietary-related GABA deficiency unless you live in a third world country, and even then, there is no population based DATA pinpointing it, meaning it doesnt even happen in the worst dietary conditions.. If you actually do have GABA deficiency, and the only way you would find out is by a Cerebrospinal fluid analysis, than it is more likely a problem in GABA receptors, or GABA transaminase overactivity, which is very rare......... And so the question is, how do we increase Gaba levels in the brain??? I cant answer that, but valium, phenibut, etc all potentiate GABA, but remember they also bind to GABAb receptor, which is BAD for your cognition... So, yes, phenibut is not a nootropic. Its a stupid drug.

here is a text by a very respectable, a REAL scientist, Mathew Jones, Assistant Professor
Ph.D., 1993, Pharmacological and Physiological Sciences, University of Chicago, about GABA:

"
I agree with this. GABA doesn't cross membranes per se, although it can
be actively transported by a variety of carriers, or leak through
epithelial junctions or through certain osmoregulatory anion channels.
But that's all beside the point. The fact is that GABA uptake in the
brain is so powerful that if you bath apply 1 mM GABA (a lot more than
you would expect from an oral dose) onto the surface of a hippocampal
slice (in which issues of access to the tissue are unimportant), you
evoke very little GABA response in the neurons because most of it gets
taken up before it can do anything. On the other hand, if you perform the
same experiment with muscimol (a GABA-A receptor agonist that is not a
substrate of the GABA transporters), or use GABA in the presence of
uptake blockers, you get a humungous response. The tissue is therefore
responsive, but it has built-in mechanisms for making sure that GABA has
only very local effects right around the synapses where it is released.
So I find it dubious that there would be a direct sedative effect of
taking GABA orally, for the very reasons mentioned in the original post.

Having said that, there are drugs (benzodiazepines, barbiturates) that
can be taken orally, cross the BBB, get to the brain, and strongly
potentiate GABAergic transmission to cause sedation or anesthesia. These
drugs aren't GABA agonists, but rather are "positive allosteric
modulators" of the GABA-A receptor. Also, there are specially designed
GABA-A receptor agonists (e.g. THIP, paper by Cheng and Brunner about ten
years ago I think) that do cross the BBB, and have been used to induce
clinical anesthesia in humans by intravenous injection."


So this brings one drug to mind. Picamilone. This drug, cleverly made, by combining nicotinic acid and GABA, and thus it can cross the BBB. How this drug works is by basically, it crosses the BBB, splits off nicotinic acid, flooding your brain with GABA and therefor it exerts its cellular affect on GABAergic receptors. Now im gunna make an educated hunch. GABA is a very important inhibitory transmitter, and fluctuations in GABA amount
will cause reaction to counteract that... take picamilone for a long time, and you will get GABA receptor insensitivity, mimicking GABA deficiency, once you stop.. I am assuming chronic use, than cold turkey will cause Dopamine rebound, and possibly seizures. If you think you have GABA deficiency, it might be from trace element deficiency, which is the more likely explanation. Also, vitaminb6 is important for the conversion of glutamate to GABA. The only way I can see a 'fix' in GABA deficiency is by using novel drugs, known as Selective GABA reuptake inhibitors, or GABA-transaminase inhibitors. And these drugs cause sedation and confusion in patients,
exactly what you would expect in an increase in GABA.

I didn't ignore your post, it was a viewpoint as others are and this post was very informative too, thanks.