• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

is the vast majority of skin ageing caused by the sun?


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#31 Debaser

  • Guest
  • 108 posts
  • 20
  • Location:UK

Posted 10 February 2015 - 10:59 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but my hunch is that if average sun exposure were a dramatic factor in aesthetic perceptions of aging we would have seen equally dramatic evidence of the fact from people who have very little or no sunlight exposure - e.g. women in burqas, miners, night shift workers, prisoners etc. Also, parts of the body that are almost always well shielded from sunlight, like the buttocks and breasts, do definitely show obvious aesthetic signs of aging in many/most by fifty years of age or so.

 

But I've often noticed that people's faces show the most signs of ageing, followed by the arms. And in some Western women, the breasts (because of wearing low cut tops a lot).
 

I often see men in their 50s or older with strangely young-looking, wrinkle-free white legs. They have most likely exposed them to the sun only a few times a year. Compared to the wrinkled up face and arms, there's a clear difference.

 

Obviously in the 60s and 70s you'll usually see wrinkles everywhere, or if not wrinkles, perhaps sagginess. The loss of collagen or fat and the action of gravity means things droop, including the buttocks and skin around the arms and neck. I would say this is a sign of ageing that the sun doesn't play much of a role in, but up until the age of about 50, sun damage is probably the dominant factor in premature ageing, particularly on the face, neck and hands, which are exposed pretty much every day, even in winter.



#32 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 1,999
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:14 AM

It's certainly possible to wreck your skin with sun exposure, and lots of people have done it, but there are clearly other forms of skin damage.  I gotta say, that 74 year old woman is a real anomaly, at least if she's really 74.  I have NEVER seen a person in their 70's that looked that good.  Her African heritage has given her a built-in sunscreen, and that undoubtedly helps.  I imagine that she has taken pretty good care of herself, not smoked, and has good genetics. 



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for AGELESS LOOKS to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#33 aribadabar

  • Guest
  • 860 posts
  • 267
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 11 February 2015 - 06:23 PM

I gotta say, that 74 year old woman is a real anomaly, at least if she's really 74.  I have NEVER seen a person in their 70's that looked that good.  Her African heritage has given her a built-in sunscreen, and that undoubtedly helps.  I imagine that she has taken pretty good care of herself, not smoked, and has good genetics. 

 

That picture is from 2010.

She seems legit. 78 now and seems just as fit - Guinness Book gave her the title for the world's oldest female bodybuilder.

 

Anomaly - no kidding :)



#34 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 1,999
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:58 PM

Judging by her muscles at that age, I suspect she's juicing.  And I mean the Barry Bonds kind, not the Jack LaLanne kind.



#35 gt35r

  • Guest
  • 186 posts
  • 12
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • NO

Posted 14 February 2015 - 06:43 PM

I hear this all the time and unfornatly it is wrong. Sun damage is not responsible for 80% of skin aging; it is responsible for 80% of the EXTRINSIC factors of skin aging. Sun protection is still the number on counter measure for maintaining skin appearance.

 

Instrsinsictly, the body causes itself a lot of damage by means of its own biochemistry. In terms of overall how much is sun damage responsible for? I dont know but its definitely less than 80%. 


  • Good Point x 1

#36 Qowpel

  • Guest
  • 355 posts
  • 36
  • Location:New jersey

Posted 14 February 2015 - 07:44 PM

I hear this all the time and unfornatly it is wrong. Sun damage is not responsible for 80% of skin aging; it is responsible for 80% of the EXTRINSIC factors of skin aging. Sun protection is still the number on counter measure for maintaining skin appearance.

 

Instrsinsictly, the body causes itself a lot of damage by means of its own biochemistry. In terms of overall how much is sun damage responsible for? I dont know but its definitely less than 80%. 

 

Hmm this man may have a point. But then again. What do I know? I wonder if anyone else has any input. It is odd now, as I have always thought that overall, skin damage caused roughly 80% of skin aging. Hmm, maybe we are all wrong and that sun exposure truly is 80% responsible for all extrinsic skin aging, meaning that there is a whole other half to this, the intrinsic aging part. Hmm



#37 Heyman

  • Guest
  • 207 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Germany

Posted 14 February 2015 - 08:00 PM

Instrsinsictly, the body causes itself a lot of damage by means of its own biochemistry. In terms of overall how much is sun damage responsible for? I dont know but its definitely less than 80%. 

 

It should be quite simple to see exactly how much the sun is responsible for by comparing exposed to unexposed skin samples on the same person... while I can hardly tell a difference on 20 vs 40 year old stomach skin, the difference is apparent when comparing hands or face. On the other hand if someone is 80 years old I can tell a difference comparing unexposed skin as well - so I guess the contribution on visible aging varies based on your age as well.

 

Aditionally some signs of aging are exclusive to external factors alone, while some may depend more on internal factors. There are plenty of pictures showing the necks of old people where you can clearly see deep wrinkles, while these are not existant at all a few centimeters lower where the skin was protected by clothing. Deep wrinkles are a product of sun exposure. Fine wrinkles on the other hand seem to be common in old people anywhere on the body.


Edited by Heyman, 14 February 2015 - 08:11 PM.


#38 Brett Black

  • Guest
  • 353 posts
  • 174
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 February 2015 - 12:46 AM

Aditionally some signs of aging are exclusive to external factors alone, while some may depend more on internal factors. There are plenty of pictures showing the necks of old people where you can clearly see deep wrinkles, while these are not existant at all a few centimeters lower where the skin was protected by clothing.


Skin creases transiently form on that area of the neck(at least on mine) when the neck is bent backward, with no skin creases forming just below that. This just seems like an intrinsic anatomical difference (the neck can bend much more that the upper back) and it could be that this intrinsic anatomical difference is the (sole or partial) deciding factor in where those wrinkles form. Just like so-called "motion wrinkles" which are associated with areas of facial movement/expression.

#39 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 1,999
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 15 February 2015 - 03:49 AM

 

Aditionally some signs of aging are exclusive to external factors alone, while some may depend more on internal factors. There are plenty of pictures showing the necks of old people where you can clearly see deep wrinkles, while these are not existant at all a few centimeters lower where the skin was protected by clothing.


Skin creases transiently form on that area of the neck(at least on mine) when the neck is bent backward, with no skin creases forming just below that. This just seems like an intrinsic anatomical difference (the neck can bend much more that the upper back) and it could be that this intrinsic anatomical difference is the (sole or partial) deciding factor in where those wrinkles form. Just like so-called "motion wrinkles" which are associated with areas of facial movement/expression.

 

I don't think that's what he's talking about.  Normal anatomical skin creases are one thing, and they tend to be quite discrete and directional.  Deep wrinkling from sun damage is different.  It is more widespread and the creases are more irregular.  There are lots of cases where long term sun-exposed skin is adjacent to healthy skin, and the difference is striking.Attached File  photodamage.JPG   85.53KB   7 downloads

 

There are also the well-known images of truck drivers and others with extremely asymmetric facial photoaging due to continual sun exposure to one side of the face.



#40 Heyman

  • Guest
  • 207 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Germany

Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:01 PM

Skin creases transiently form on that area of the neck(at least on mine) when the neck is bent backward, with no skin creases forming just below that. This just seems like an intrinsic anatomical difference (the neck can bend much more that the upper back) and it could be that this intrinsic anatomical difference is the (sole or partial) deciding factor in where those wrinkles form. Just like so-called "motion wrinkles" which are associated with areas of facial movement/expression.

 

If these wrinkles are truly caused by movement or anatomical differences alone I would expect that black people would be similarly likely to develop these. If you can show me a single picture of an african american person with dark skin and the same kind of wrinkled face you see on old caucasian faces (example) I would be surprised. As a matter of fact they don't have nearly the same amount of wrinkles and I doubt they move or express less.

 

These wrinkles in the example are part of solar elastosis, a skin condition where too much abnormal elastin has accumulated in the skin. An increase of abnormal elastin is exclusive to sun-exposed skin, in unexposed skin elastin actually decreases slowly as you age. One of the main features of solar elastosis are deep wrinkles. So this is why I think it is related to sun exposure.

 

On the other hand expression could play a role together with sun exposure. There is a study done in mice where researchers created a wrinkle that became permanent if there was UV radiation involved but did not become permanent without UV radiation, so it is possible that both factors have to be present.


Edited by Heyman, 15 February 2015 - 02:17 PM.


#41 Brett Black

  • Guest
  • 353 posts
  • 174
  • Location:Australia

Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:11 AM

This is not what you asked for, but it still may be relevant(it's from before and after fraxel laser treatment):
Lux1540-B-Neck-BA.jpg

There is obvious symmetry in those wrinkles, and the wrinkles are closely aligned with the underlying symmetry of the anatomical structures (ie located centreline of the neck), which I think may be indicative of them having at least an intrinsic component.

Here's what can happen to the neck skin with certain neck motions before the above wrinkles show:
mike-brown-16x9.jpg?w=650

It seems reasonabe to put two and two together, but I may be wrong.

These types of neck wrinkles also look similar, to me, to the horizontal wrinkles that often appear on the forehead, and I was under the impression that such forehead wrinkles are considered to be at least partly explained by facial motion and repeated expressions.

Edited by Brett Black, 16 February 2015 - 12:12 AM.


#42 Heyman

  • Guest
  • 207 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Germany

Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:53 AM

It seems reasonabe to put two and two together, but I may be wrong.

These types of neck wrinkles also look similar, to me, to the horizontal wrinkles that often appear on the forehead, and I was under the impression that such forehead wrinkles are considered to be at least partly explained by facial motion and repeated expressions.

 

You make a good point that one of the factors for these neck wrinkles is motion and i agree. Again, as black people usually don't have neck wrinkles, it is not sufficient as a single factor. Maybe we can agree that motion together with UV is the fastest way to get wrinkles. Motion alone likely won't do much and UV alone will take a longer time to create wrinkles.


  • Agree x 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users