11 replies to this topic

[Tsukimi]

Hi all,

First time poster after lurking around for a few weeks and brushing up on my extremely basic knowledge!

I've been doing some basic comparisons of the most popular multivitamins and I'm surprised to see the huge variance in the quantity of individual ingredients that each company is choosing to put into their product. In the examples below, the differences are significant - How are the researchers at these companies reaching such different conclusions? Each product also contains a dozen or so elements that the others do not, which is strange in a world where they should all be reading the same objective research reports. What am I missing?

Per serving;
Supplement, LEF Mix, Now Adams, AOR Core
B1 - 125mg, 25mg, 9mg
B12 - 600mcg, 250mcg, 24mcg
C - 2000mg, 350mg, 565mg
Biotin - 3000mcg, 300mcg, 300mcg
Magnesium - 400mg, 100mg, 210mg
Inositol - 250mg, 25mg, 100mg

[ajnast4r]

Hi all,

First time poster after lurking around for a few weeks and brushing up on my extremely basic knowledge!

I've been doing some basic comparisons of the most popular multivitamins and I'm surprised to see the huge variance in the quantity of individual ingredients that each company is choosing to put into their product. In the examples below, the differences are significant - How are the researchers at these companies reaching such different conclusions? Each product also contains a dozen or so elements that the others do not, which is strange in a world where they should all be reading the same objective research reports. What am I missing?

Per serving;
Supplement, LEF Mix, Now Adams, AOR Core
B1 - 125mg, 25mg, 9mg
B12 - 600mcg, 250mcg, 24mcg
C - 2000mg, 350mg, 565mg
Biotin - 3000mcg, 300mcg, 300mcg
Magnesium - 400mg, 100mg, 210mg
Inositol - 250mg, 25mg, 100mg

there are basically 3 schools of thought: real science: the amount of nutrients needed to mimic and compliment a good diet (aor), quack science: mega-dosing huge amounts of everything (lef), scien..what? just completely random (now)

AOR has the best ingredient profile of any multivitamin currently on the market... hands down.

[Tsukimi]

there are basically 3 schools of thought: real science: the amount of nutrients needed to mimic and compliment a good diet (aor), quack science: mega-dosing huge amounts of everything (lef), scien..what? just completely random (now)
AOR has the best ingredient profile of any multivitamin currently on the market... hands down.

If you are serious, then according to this poll on imminst.org, at least 25% of the voters are following either quacky or random science. Hard to believe given how well informed most of the members of this forum are.

[Kutta]

Well, I don't really worship Ortho-Core as the most clever and scientific multi. Although they tend to use potent and modern forms of vitamins, money wise they are far from optimal, and also there are some flashy weaknesses. I mean:

- 9 mg thiamin, and that's all for B1. Hmm. Do they expect me to buy additional benfotiamin/thiamin? If yes, what's with the philosophy of the super modern all-in-one multi?

- Choline Bitartrate 100mg. The cheapest and least potent choline.

- 120mg magnesium ascorbate for C. Not so potent as pure ascorbic acid, and 120mg is very far from optimal.

- 86 mg of all tocopherols? The gamma/alpha ratio is good but 86 mg is a tiny amount. Even with 10 mg tocotrienols.

- Why the 2,5mg t-res? Only microgramms will reach the blood, and that's practically useless.

- Why the 150mg R-ALA? It surely makes the multi much more expensive. It's not really practical, divided to 6 tablets over the day. I'd rather buy much cheaper bulk R-ala. With ALCAR, of course.

Basically none of these are huge weaknesses but I can't overlook them since AOR claims that OrthoCore is THE uber multi formula.

Mimicking a "good diet" is something we've left behind a long time ago. Now we are trying to reach superior states to what can be achieved with a "good diet". Clever usage of the so called "megadosing" could be a part of this.

Edited by Kutta, 29 November 2008 - 01:36 PM.

[Mousehunter]

Very well written. I agree with everything. Ortho Core contains too small amount of vitamin C, tocopherols etc.
I can't wait what the AOR worshippers respond

Edited by Mousehunter, 29 November 2008 - 02:13 PM.

[nowayout]

Very well written. I agree with everything. Ortho Core contains too small amount of vitamin C, tocopherols etc.
I can't wait what the AOR worshippers respond

To understand some of the philosophy and science behind the AOR formulation, check out http://cron-web.org/...ts-guide-1.html, which I believe was written by someone involved at some time with AOR.

Evidence in favor of supplementing megadoses of C and tocopherols, for example, is just not there. There is also growing evidence that megadoses of antioxidants may block some beneficial adaptations due to exercise training, which is currently of concern to me. This point might be less relevant to sedentary people.

I therefore prefer to take a fraction of AOR multi basics, since I would like to avoid some of the riskier ingredients in Ortho-core, such as ALA and Resveratrol.

[nowayout]

I therefore prefer to take a fraction of AOR multi basics, since I would like to avoid some of the riskier ingredients in Ortho-core, such as ALA and Resveratrol.

Just to clarify, despite the promise of the latter two ingredients, some rather troubling scientific/anecdotal evidence has recently emerged that argue for restraint until more is known. But this has been discussed elsewhere on this site. It therefore seems just a little irresponsible to include them in a daily multi formulation for the time being.

Edited by andre, 29 November 2008 - 04:54 PM.

[meursault]

Well, I don't really worship Ortho-Core as the most clever and scientific multi. Although they tend to use potent and modern forms of vitamins, money wise they are far from optimal, and also there are some flashy weaknesses. I mean:

- 9 mg thiamin, and that's all for B1. Hmm. Do they expect me to buy additional benfotiamin/thiamin? If yes, what's with the philosophy of the super modern all-in-one multi?

- Choline Bitartrate 100mg. The cheapest and least potent choline.

- 120mg magnesium ascorbate for C. Not so potent as pure ascorbic acid, and 120mg is very far from optimal.

- 86 mg of all tocopherols? The gamma/alpha ratio is good but 86 mg is a tiny amount. Even with 10 mg tocotrienols.

- Why the 2,5mg t-res? Only microgramms will reach the blood, and that's practically useless.

- Why the 150mg R-ALA? It surely makes the multi much more expensive. It's not really practical, divided to 6 tablets over the day. I'd rather buy much cheaper bulk R-ala. With ALCAR, of course.

Basically none of these are huge weaknesses but I can't overlook them since AOR claims that OrthoCore is THE uber multi formula.

Mimicking a "good diet" is something we've left behind a long time ago. Now we are trying to reach superior states to what can be achieved with a "good diet". Clever usage of the so called "megadosing" could be a part of this.

Try eating food? You might have missed the directions on the label.

[kenj]

I don't think you're gonna find ONE vitamin pill that covers everything/one, - different people have different needs depending on physiology and diet, but Ortho•Core is very good in that it helps you meet the minimum micronutrient intake together with a balanced diet, without carrying possible risks for going overboard with any nutrient.

EDIT: WUT! I just checked that a full serving of O•C now contains a 100mg of resveratrol (?), and I knew about the 150mg r-lipoic acid (a powerful antioxidant), so that might be flirting with the Unknown.

Edited by kenj, 29 November 2008 - 06:10 PM.

[Kutta]

Well, I don't really worship Ortho-Core as the most clever and scientific multi. Although they tend to use potent and modern forms of vitamins, money wise they are far from optimal, and also there are some flashy weaknesses. I mean:

- 9 mg thiamin, and that's all for B1. Hmm. Do they expect me to buy additional benfotiamin/thiamin? If yes, what's with the philosophy of the super modern all-in-one multi?

- Choline Bitartrate 100mg. The cheapest and least potent choline.

- 120mg magnesium ascorbate for C. Not so potent as pure ascorbic acid, and 120mg is very far from optimal.

- 86 mg of all tocopherols? The gamma/alpha ratio is good but 86 mg is a tiny amount. Even with 10 mg tocotrienols.

- Why the 2,5mg t-res? Only microgramms will reach the blood, and that's practically useless.

- Why the 150mg R-ALA? It surely makes the multi much more expensive. It's not really practical, divided to 6 tablets over the day. I'd rather buy much cheaper bulk R-ala. With ALCAR, of course.

Basically none of these are huge weaknesses but I can't overlook them since AOR claims that OrthoCore is THE uber multi formula.

Mimicking a "good diet" is something we've left behind a long time ago. Now we are trying to reach superior states to what can be achieved with a "good diet". Clever usage of the so called "megadosing" could be a part of this.

Try eating food? You might have missed the directions on the label.

Well, if I believed in the magical ambrosia called FOOD (at least in some contexts I often see this mystical interpretation of food), I would not have gotten into supps...

Yeah, I eat "food" everyday, by which I mean the best food available and affordable around me. But as I'm trying not to place exaggerated faith in supplements I also refrain from worshipping food.

[ajnast4r]

If you are serious, then according to this poll on imminst.org, at least 25% of the voters are following either quacky or random science. Hard to believe given how well informed most of the members of this forum are.

everyone i consider to be well informed here, uses ortho-core or multi-basics.

Mimicking a "good diet" is something we've left behind a long time ago. Now we are trying to reach superior states to what can be achieved with a "good diet". Clever usage of the so called "megadosing" could be a part of this.

there is NO solid science that supports mega dosing in healthy adults...

[meursault]

Well, I don't really worship Ortho-Core as the most clever and scientific multi. Although they tend to use potent and modern forms of vitamins, money wise they are far from optimal, and also there are some flashy weaknesses. I mean:

- 9 mg thiamin, and that's all for B1. Hmm. Do they expect me to buy additional benfotiamin/thiamin? If yes, what's with the philosophy of the super modern all-in-one multi?

- Choline Bitartrate 100mg. The cheapest and least potent choline.

- 120mg magnesium ascorbate for C. Not so potent as pure ascorbic acid, and 120mg is very far from optimal.

- 86 mg of all tocopherols? The gamma/alpha ratio is good but 86 mg is a tiny amount. Even with 10 mg tocotrienols.

- Why the 2,5mg t-res? Only microgramms will reach the blood, and that's practically useless.

- Why the 150mg R-ALA? It surely makes the multi much more expensive. It's not really practical, divided to 6 tablets over the day. I'd rather buy much cheaper bulk R-ala. With ALCAR, of course.

Basically none of these are huge weaknesses but I can't overlook them since AOR claims that OrthoCore is THE uber multi formula.

Mimicking a "good diet" is something we've left behind a long time ago. Now we are trying to reach superior states to what can be achieved with a "good diet". Clever usage of the so called "megadosing" could be a part of this.

Try eating food? You might have missed the directions on the label.

Well, if I believed in the magical ambrosia called FOOD (at least in some contexts I often see this mystical interpretation of food), I would not have gotten into supps...

Yeah, I eat "food" everyday, by which I mean the best food available and affordable around me. But as I'm trying not to place exaggerated faith in supplements I also refrain from worshipping food.

Main Entry:¹sup·ple·ment Pronunciation: \ˈsə-plə-mənt\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, from Latin supplementum, from supplēre to fill up, complete — more at supplyDate:14th century 1 a: something that completes or makes an addition b: dietary supplement

It's foolish to think that a supplement should satisfy all or most of your dietary requirements.

Edited by czukles, 01 December 2008 - 02:12 AM.