204 replies to this topic

[frederickson]

the quinoa people eat, as i understand it, is not even a grain. it's a seed.

[DukeNukem]

Do you still eat oats?

About 15 grams, every other morning now. I use it as a based for all of my supplement powders and oils, but I'm trying to find a replacement. I'm thinking of going back to a morning shake, sans oats.

[sthira]

My statements before have been overturned (IMO) by convincing studies that occurred after, or occurred before but I found after. Meats, especially cooked meats, still pose a problem. But, I'm more convinced that these problems are less impactful, as long as the meat isn't burnt. I still advocate avoiding cow dairy and recommend goat dairy due to it's much lower casein content. The saturated fat issue is my biggest turnaround. The more I learned, the more I realized that saturated fat wasn't the evil fat we'd all be led to believe. In fact, quite the contrary.

I also still advocate high vegetable intake, but the vegetables I recommend are mostly water by weight, typically at least 90% water, and ofter 95% water (most greens).

Here's the thing, we all taking a winding path to the truth. The key is to never think you have the truth figured out, and to keep an open mind to changes in your beliefs, if something more convincing comes your way. There was definitely a time when I thought whole grains where the answer. But, years later, I come to believe grains have practically no healthful role in our diet. Yes, they have some nutrients (very low versus most other foods), but they are a net-negative overall. Whole grains still spike sugar and insulin levels like processed grains. And they have gluten. No thanks. Neither of these should be consumed by people concerned with healthy longevity.

I appreciate that we can have a mature, level-headed discussion, it's rare to remain dispassionate about nearly any topic -- diet, politics, religion -- and I appreciate your willingness. It's one of the hallmarks of an educated mind. And yet, there probably isn't "the truth," and "science" certainly doesn't claim "truth," science (if there is such a collective) only claims to be less false. Those who practice science are often the first to claim their honest ignorance and humility in the face of the mysteries they study. You may read that as semantic bullshit, however, most people do...

I'm still curious about the convincing dietary studies you've encountered that changed your eating behavior so drastically. I've been a raw vegan for many years, and I rarely deviate. But I'm wide open to the possibility that raw veganism may not be the best way to maintain healthy life-extension.

[DukeNukem]

My statements before have been overturned (IMO) by convincing studies that occurred after, or occurred before but I found after. Meats, especially cooked meats, still pose a problem. But, I'm more convinced that these problems are less impactful, as long as the meat isn't burnt. I still advocate avoiding cow dairy and recommend goat dairy due to it's much lower casein content. The saturated fat issue is my biggest turnaround. The more I learned, the more I realized that saturated fat wasn't the evil fat we'd all be led to believe. In fact, quite the contrary.

I also still advocate high vegetable intake, but the vegetables I recommend are mostly water by weight, typically at least 90% water, and ofter 95% water (most greens).

Here's the thing, we all taking a winding path to the truth. The key is to never think you have the truth figured out, and to keep an open mind to changes in your beliefs, if something more convincing comes your way. There was definitely a time when I thought whole grains where the answer. But, years later, I come to believe grains have practically no healthful role in our diet. Yes, they have some nutrients (very low versus most other foods), but they are a net-negative overall. Whole grains still spike sugar and insulin levels like processed grains. And they have gluten. No thanks. Neither of these should be consumed by people concerned with healthy longevity.

I appreciate that we can have a mature, level-headed discussion, it's rare to remain dispassionate about nearly any topic -- diet, politics, religion -- and I appreciate your willingness. It's one of the hallmarks of an educated mind. And yet, there probably isn't "the truth," and "science" certainly doesn't claim "truth," science (if there is such a collective) only claims to be less false. Those who practice science are often the first to claim their honest ignorance and humility in the face of the mysteries they study. You may read that as semantic bullshit, however, most people do...

I'm still curious about the convincing dietary studies you've encountered that changed your eating behavior so drastically. I've been a raw vegan for many years, and I rarely deviate. But I'm wide open to the possibility that raw veganism may not be the best way to maintain healthy life-extension.

I'm sure I've linked to a few of these studies in this thread, plus I've recommended the book, Good Calorie Bad Calorie, which is a very thick discourse on the topic, with the last 20% of the book being reference pages. Check out this Larry King video segment where Dr. Weil of all people, glowingly endorses the book as an eye-opening smack in the face to convention dietary wisdom:


I also recommend plowing through Dr. Eades Protein Power blog, where he has literally dozens of study references showing low-carb trumps the Mediterranean diet, and all higher-carb diets.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

[sthira]

I'm sure I've linked to a few of these studies in this thread, plus I've recommended the book, Good Calorie Bad Calorie, which is a very thick discourse on the topic, with the last 20% of the book being reference pages. Check out this Larry King video segment where Dr. Weil of all people, glowingly endorses the book as an eye-opening smack in the face to convention dietary wisdom:


I also recommend plowing through Dr. Eades Protein Power blog, where he has literally dozens of study references showing low-carb trumps the Mediterranean diet, and all higher-carb diets.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

Okay, thanks, I did check out the Larry King video you posted. I like all three of those people. Weil doesn't look like the ogre you made him out to be... However, here's a thing I think is relevant: I'm not obese, you're not obese, most people reading this are probably not obese. Instead, we are people who probably watch what we eat, we exercize, we think about our personal health and longevity and stress-reduction, we don't eat and drink the gunk that most people fall victim to. We are eating for health, not to reduce obesity. So, what's best for the people who are doing well, but who want to optimize their lifestyles to make those lifestyles healthier in order to live longer. That's what this website is about -- healthy life extention. So, we're not like the average people... I mean, I hate to be elitist here, but none of us is battling obesity. Am I wrong? Correct me...

[sthira]

I also recommend plowing through Dr. Eades Protein Power blog, where he has literally dozens of study references showing low-carb trumps the Mediterranean diet, and all higher-carb diets.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

Are these the nutritional studies that changed your behavior from what it was then to what it is now? Also, one other thing, what does Aubrey de Grey eat? Does he ever mention such things on this website?

Edited by sthira, 18 December 2008 - 05:03 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I would be surprised if Aubrey de Grey spent much time researching optimal diets beyond the basics (eat wholesome unprocessed foods, mostly from plants). That's pretty inconsequential stuff in the grand scheme of life extension that he is concerned with. I bet some of us here know more than him about nutrition.

[Forever21]

1:11

[FunkOdyssey]

There you go, the Aubrey de Grey diet = 3 pints of beer with breakfast.

[sthira]

Nice video, thanks. I'd like to meet Aubrey de Grey, and pick his mind. I wonder if he ever shows up here and comments about diet and nutrition and whole grains and meat and all of the little things people here are all wadded out about? You say that some of us here may know more than he does about nutrition, but I wonder? Are you here and reading this, Aubrey de Grey? If so, what's the best way to eat in order to live a long, healthy life -- assuming we're healthy and not obese?

[Forever21]

sthira,

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=4977

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=11201

[ajnast4r]

1:11

man i got a real kick out of that

[kenj]

There you go, the Aubrey de Grey diet = 3 pints of beer with breakfast.

Ohnoes too many carbs in beer..... ;-)

[kenj]

Okay, thanks, I did check out the Larry King video you posted. I like all three of those people. Weil doesn't look like the ogre you made him out to be... However, here's a thing I think is relevant: I'm not obese, you're not obese, most people reading this are probably not obese. Instead, we are people who probably watch what we eat, we exercize, we think about our personal health and longevity and stress-reduction, we don't eat and drink the gunk that most people fall victim to. We are eating for health, not to reduce obesity. So, what's best for the people who are doing well, but who want to optimize their lifestyles to make those lifestyles healthier in order to live longer. That's what this website is about -- healthy life extention. So, we're not like the average people... I mean, I hate to be elitist here, but none of us is battling obesity. Am I wrong? Correct me...

Good point. The saturated fat issue picked my brain for a while, and sat fat doesn't seem 'bad', but I wouldn't ban -or- downplay carbohydrates for healthy, physically active people: the good ones, including small amounts of whole grains are great nutritious fuel.
AFAIK, we have no long-term evidence? that populations eating no carbs and all fats live 'routinely' to 100+ years, whereas the okinawan people, previously discussed, lived disease free on a moderate/high carb (no snickers) CRish diet as, OTOH many other populations eating good carbs.
BTW, a pretty balanced pyramid, IMO.

[Shepard]

This is undeniable proof that his genius extends to nutrition, as well.

Why can't my area of the country have decent beer available before noon? Actually, we don't have much decent beer at all. Damn Bible Belt.

Edited by shepard, 18 December 2008 - 01:22 PM.

[sthira]

DukeNukem: It's impressive to see your posts going back several years. At first I thought you just were judgemental dick based on your comments about Weil's outward appearance. But after reading some of what you've written here, I've revised my views. You seem open and honest, you share a great deal about yourself and your personal habits -- your beliefs about nutrition, exercize, general health -- and I think you do this community a great service.

I really do wonder about de Grey's eating habits, though, and I wonder if he would be an even healthier character if he ate better. But we really don't know what the man eats, since he doesn't appear to be sharing that here.

[DukeNukem]

DukeNukem: It's impressive to see your posts going back several years. At first I thought you just were judgemental dick based on your comments about Weil's outward appearance. But after reading some of what you've written here, I've revised my views. You seem open and honest, you share a great deal about yourself and your personal habits -- your beliefs about nutrition, exercize, general health -- and I think you do this community a great service.

I really do wonder about de Grey's eating habits, though, and I wonder if he would be an even healthier character if he ate better. But we really don't know what the man eats, since he doesn't appear to be sharing that here.

I complained about de Grey's Snicker's-and-a-beer-for-lunch eating habits soon after joining this board. It's definitely out-of-character, IMO, for someone trying to live forever. He might be robbing himself of the extra few years it'll take to reach escape velocity.

And btw, appreciate your comments.

[suspire]

Actually, we don't have much decent beer at all. Damn Bible Belt.

Get your hands on Rochefort 8. The Trappist beer is the best on the planet!

[Mind]

Nice video, thanks. I'd like to meet Aubrey de Grey, and pick his mind. I wonder if he ever shows up here and comments about diet and nutrition and whole grains and meat and all of the little things people here are all wadded out about? You say that some of us here may know more than he does about nutrition, but I wonder? Are you here and reading this, Aubrey de Grey? If so, what's the best way to eat in order to live a long, healthy life -- assuming we're healthy and not obese?

Aubrey does post here from time to time but mostly to help explain the latest bioscience research, and that is what is most valuable. I think he is way to busy to delve into nutrition discussions. Most people who know him would agree that his diet is not top notch, except for that it is somewhat CR. I spent a day with him earlier this year and he didn't eat anything all day until like 10 at night and then it was just a sandwich and a beer (as far as I can remember). Maybe he had a snickers at some point in the day, but not a big meal or anything.

[edward]

Nice video, thanks. I'd like to meet Aubrey de Grey, and pick his mind. I wonder if he ever shows up here and comments about diet and nutrition and whole grains and meat and all of the little things people here are all wadded out about? You say that some of us here may know more than he does about nutrition, but I wonder? Are you here and reading this, Aubrey de Grey? If so, what's the best way to eat in order to live a long, healthy life -- assuming we're healthy and not obese?

Aubrey does post here from time to time but mostly to help explain the latest bioscience research, and that is what is most valuable. I think he is way to busy to delve into nutrition discussions. Most people who know him would agree that his diet is not top notch, except for that it is somewhat CR. I spent a day with him earlier this year and he didn't eat anything all day until like 10 at night and then it was just a sandwich and a beer (as far as I can remember). Maybe he had a snickers at some point in the day, but not a big meal or anything.

Interesting, CR without ON is not a good situation, hope he at least consumes a good multi

[kismet]

Interesting, CR without ON is not a good situation, hope he at least consumes a good multi

As far as I know he does not put too much faith in CR, much less into late-life CR. I can understand why he doesn't care too much about diet, because he has the disadvantage of being alive already* and he has been for a long time, so most or at least a lot of damage has been done already. It is perfectly understandable that SENS would benefit him (and millions of people) much more than a good diet, so investing time in more than a rudimentary, but healthy, diet seems like a waste to me.
Aubrey seems to be in good health anyway, even without a perfect diet: http://www.imminst.o...mp;#entry247687
It is interesting to note that Michael, his assistant, invests much more time in his regimen, CR and supplements. He is younger than Aubrey and is a strong supporter of CR, though.

*based on a quote by MR/Aubrey, which I cannot find at the moment, explaining why rejuvenation is much more important than prevention in the great scheme of things.

Edited by kismet, 25 December 2008 - 09:16 PM.

[Dmitri]

Interesting, CR without ON is not a good situation, hope he at least consumes a good multi

As far as I know he does not put too much faith in CR, much less into late-life CR. I can understand why he doesn't care too much about diet, because he has the disadvantage of being alive already* and he has been for a long time, so most or at least a lot of damage has been done already. It is perfectly understandable that SENS would benefit him (and millions of people) much more than a good diet, so investing time in more than a rudimentary, but healthy, diet seems like a waste to me.
Aubrey seems to be in good health anyway, even without a perfect diet: http://www.imminst.o...mp;#entry247687
It is interesting to note that Michael, his assistant, invests much more time in his regimen, CR and supplements. He is younger than Aubrey and is a strong supporter of CR, though.

*based on a quote by MR/Aubrey, which I cannot find at the moment, explaining why rejuvenation is much more important than prevention in the great scheme of things.

Where/when has MR mentioned he uses supplements? He seems like he's anti-supplements from the threads he has posted here.

[nameless]

For those who are completely anti-whole grain, what evidence is there that oats are unhealthy? Or even brown rice (in moderation)? Wheat should be avoided, but why would all whole grains be lumped into the same unhealthy category?

[DukeNukem]

For those who are completely anti-whole grain, what evidence is there that oats are unhealthy? Or even brown rice (in moderation)? Wheat should be avoided, but why would all whole grains be lumped into the same unhealthy category?

Of all grains, oats are probably the best, because they have beta-glucans that lower blood sugar for several hours, and they do not contain gluten. Frankly, I have no problem with oats, and will still eat them from time to time.

[CobaltThoriumG]

For those who are completely anti-whole grain, what evidence is there that oats are unhealthy? Or even brown rice (in moderation)? Wheat should be avoided, but why would all whole grains be lumped into the same unhealthy category?

Of all grains, oats are probably the best, because they have beta-glucans that lower blood sugar for several hours, and they do not contain gluten. Frankly, I have no problem with oats, and will still eat them from time to time.

Aside from lactose, which I have a plan to reduce by 75%, oats are my only significant carb source. I soak 1/4 to 1/3 cup of quick oats in milk with resveratrol, almonds and/or walnuts, cinnamon, and 1/4 to 1/3 cup of blueberries overnight and use for breakfast. The balance of the day, again, aside from lactose, is void of carbs.

Edited by CobaltThoriumG, 28 December 2008 - 11:53 PM.