4 replies to this topic

[spaceurchin]

I have finals right now and have been taking DMAE with Smart Focus Formula (huperzine A, a bit of vinpocetine and rhodiola) regularly for about 2 weeks. I recently procured a cap of concerta. Would it be safe to take these all together? What about if I have been preloading the others for 2 weeks, but didn't take them on the day I took the methylphenidate? I just want to know if anyone thinks there's a risk.
Thanks for your help!
EDIT: forgive the typo in the title, meant to write DMAE.

Edited by spaceurchin, 02 December 2008 - 10:33 PM.

[mentatpsi]

I have finals right now and have been taking DMAE with Smart Focus Formula (huperzine A, a bit of vinpocetine and rhodiola) regularly for about 2 weeks. I recently procured a cap of concerta. Would it be safe to take these all together? What about if I have been preloading the others for 2 weeks, but didn't take them on the day I took the methylphenidate? I just want to know if anyone thinks there's a risk.
Thanks for your help!
EDIT: forgive the typo in the title, meant to write DMAE.

It would be interesting to get the exact dosages contained within the Smart Focus Formula.

Methylphenidate actually works as a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, increasing the presence of these neurotransmitters. I'm not really sure if an abundance of Dopamine causes health concerns, but based on some of the findings Vinpocetine increases dopamine[1] and Rhodiola is supposedly responsible for creating a balance within serotonin and dopamine levels, hence the term adaptogen. You probably already know that though.


DMAE mainly affects acetylcholine levels within the brain, though I personally believe it seems to have more of an anticholinergic effect mentally, giving thoughts a viscosity that can be detrimental for creative thought (I had a weird experience with it). I kind of feel though that the combination of the two precursors of stimulatory neurotransmitters will backfire a bit. Especially considering you're using both huperzine, which decreases the chemical responsible for the breakdown of acetylcholine and DMAE, which supposedly is a much stronger precursor of ACh. Though i stipulate that the levels found within the Smart Focus Formula are quite low, maybe to the point of not being cost effective?


Those are mainly assumptions though, but I'm wondering, if you've taken the combination before, did you feel overly active? Sounds like an interesting combination nonetheless, but experimentation during finals doesn't sound like a great idea .

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[1]
Increases in neuronal levels of DOPAC, a metabolic breakdown product of dopamine, have been shown to occur in striatal isolated nerve endings as a result of exposure to vinpocetine.[12] Such an effect is consistent with the biogenic pharmacology of reserpine, a structural relative of vinpocetine, which depletes catecholamine levels and may cause depression as a side-effect of the cardiovascular and anti-psychotic effects.[13]
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Vinpocetine

[medicineman]

My friend, vinpocetine does not increase dopamine, it has the same effect as reserpine. Reserpine decreases dopamine, by degrading normally present, synaptic catecholamines...... So you get increased dopamine breakdown product because more dopamine is broken down. Remember that dopamine is recycled by cell reuptake, so an increase CSF dopamine metabolite or neuronal DA metabolite can mean increased DA levels, or increase DA breakdown and with reserpine, its the latter..... not because your body is making much of it.

Edited by medicineman, 04 December 2008 - 06:42 PM.

[mentatpsi]

My friend, vinpocetine does not increase dopamine, it has the same effect as reserpine. Reserpine decreases dopamine, by degrading normally present, synaptic catecholamines...... So you get increased dopamine breakdown product because more dopamine is broken down. Remember that dopamine is recycled by cell reuptake, so an increase CSF dopamine metabolite or neuronal DA metabolite can mean increased DA levels, or increase DA breakdown and with reserpine, its the latter..... not because your body is making much of it.

Thanks for correcting me... i was kind of worried this topic wouldn't be looked at due to the stigma behind the conventional treatments for ADHD. In my personal opinion i think Ritalin is more gentle compared to Adderall. Also it's great that people are interested in amplifying certain medications by experimenting with different combinations.

Back on topic, what you're saying makes sense on why depression is listed as a side effect. I do recall though, the major theory for ADHD is a D2R2 mutation resulting in lower concentrations of Dopamine. So taking vino seems to be contrary to what would be most capable of treating ADHD. However, since ADHD can impact forgetfulness it is an interesting angle. I have wondered though if the presence of two stimulatory neurotransmitters reduces the efficiency of cognition overall.

I personal think a combination of stimulatory and inhibitory neurotransmitter adjustments work better. GABA for instance works well, even though there is the possibility that it poorly passes the blood-brain barrier it could be placebo. If not Gaba, meditation also works well with ritalin .

[medicineman]

My friend, vinpocetine does not increase dopamine, it has the same effect as reserpine. Reserpine decreases dopamine, by degrading normally present, synaptic catecholamines...... So you get increased dopamine breakdown product because more dopamine is broken down. Remember that dopamine is recycled by cell reuptake, so an increase CSF dopamine metabolite or neuronal DA metabolite can mean increased DA levels, or increase DA breakdown and with reserpine, its the latter..... not because your body is making much of it.

Thanks for correcting me... i was kind of worried this topic wouldn't be looked at due to the stigma behind the conventional treatments for ADHD. In my personal opinion i think Ritalin is more gentle compared to Adderall. Also it's great that people are interested in amplifying certain medications by experimenting with different combinations.

Back on topic, what you're saying makes sense on why depression is listed as a side effect. I do recall though, the major theory for ADHD is a D2R2 mutation resulting in lower concentrations of Dopamine. So taking vino seems to be contrary to what would be most capable of treating ADHD. However, since ADHD can impact forgetfulness it is an interesting angle. I have wondered though if the presence of two stimulatory neurotransmitters reduces the efficiency of cognition overall.

I personal think a combination of stimulatory and inhibitory neurotransmitter adjustments work better. GABA for instance works well, even though there is the possibility that it poorly passes the blood-brain barrier it could be placebo. If not Gaba, meditation also works well with ritalin .

I am very much interested in ADHD and the pharmacotherapy behind it as well.. Ritalin is definitely gentler than adderral, and studies have shown that so far as we know,, it has no neurotoxic effects. I think I understand what you mean.. You want to optimize ratio of inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmitters in order to achieve optimum cognitive enhancement... For example, ephedrine is too much a stimulant to be effective in cognitive enhancement, and valium is the opposite.

To this day, I am having trouble optimizing inhibitory/excitatory systems... The key to a good memory is like you said, a balance between the two, and that is so damn hard to achieve unless you go on a trial and error spree, and than, maybe than, you might be a step further in the quest of optimum neurochemistry.

Do you have any literature concerning meditation?? I would actually be thankful if you can provide the links to some, as they are scarce...