34 replies to this topic

[Vgamer1]

I'm curious as to what this subforum thinks about the singularity in terms of their religious views.

I think it will all depend on how the coming of the singularity goes. Basically if it's good, we have a "Messianic Age" scenario (potentially), and if it goes bad we have an apocalypse scenario.

I am Jewish, so I genuinely believe that the singularity could be our Messiah. I don't know how much of the prophecy I literally believe, but take this for example, from the book of Daniel, Chapter 12:

"Many of those who lie dead in the ground will rise from death..."

Think about all the cryonics clients that are accumulating. If these people are one day revived it would essentially be as if they rose from the dead.

Now, I'm not one to literally interpret the bible, but my point is that I believe many people will take the coming singularity as a spiritual and/or religious occurrence. Some will embrace it and some will reject it.

What is your stance?

Edited by Vgamer1, 09 December 2008 - 01:06 AM.

[forever freedom]

I never saw the singularity in any of these ways. To me, it's just about maximizing my chances of maintaining myself alive. In the lack of a better option, i chose "becoming gods" because that's what we will become if the singularity happens as we (i) expect it to happen, and gods don't die as easily as humans, so i do expect and hope that we become higher entities.

[Vgamer1]

Hmm... I originally had the option for "Nothing special," but I don't think anybody would say the singularity is "nothing special."

I wonder if other people see it like I do...

[Ben Simon]

I'm not one to wait for prophecies to come true, but I have thought about exactly that as a cool 'what if' scenario. When prophecies pay off in stories I always find it most satisfying if there's a bit of a twist to it and expectations are defied - in fact that's how the messiah scenario plays out in the new testament. People expected a King, and they got a Servant King. A conqueror and they got a sacrificial lamb, who was a conquerer of death and sin.

It's a cool idea to think that were biblical prohecy to come true it might take the form of something like this. We always think of those big events in revelations etcetera as being supernatural somehow... but what if they were our own doing, and all had perfectly natural explanations? What if we ushered in the new heaven and the new earth through technology?

Like I said, it's a cool idea. I can imagine it might be good material for a piece of fiction.

[Vgamer1]

Ben, I've thought about that for a long time. In the Jewish view the Messiah is a person that will come and bring the world into a Golden Era. However, one stipulation is that the world must be ready for him. We have to prepare the world for his arrival through Tikkun Olam (healing the world).

I've come to interpret this as a call for people to help the world in any way they can and that these efforts will bring about the Messianic age. So, in my opinion, it is only people that have the power to create heaven on earth and not supernatural forces.

Taking this even further I believe that someone living on earth today is in fact the Messiah. It may not be one person, however, it could be a group of people or an organization (imminst?). Indeed this is how I plan to pose the idea to people I know of faith - That the Messiah is at our doorstep and all we have to do is let him in.

Edited by Vgamer1, 09 December 2008 - 03:59 AM.

[suspire]

Taking this even further I believe that someone living on earth today is in fact the Messiah. It may not be one person, however, it could be a group of people or an organization (imminst?).

Woo-hoo! I might be a godling afterall!

[william7]

We have to prepare the world for his arrival through Tikkun Olam (healing the world).

I thought the Jewish community waits for Elijah to prepare the world for the Messiah's coming? See Malachi 4:5-6.

[Vgamer1]

I thought the Jewish community waits for Elijah to prepare the world for the Messiah's coming? See Malachi 4:5-6.

You're right, that is true. I'm not really too well informed about what Elijah's role is however. I do know that it is tradition to leave an empty seat, pour a cup of wine, and leave the door open for Elijah on Passover in case he decides to show up.

Maybe you could enlighten me on the subject. Point me to more passages?

[Ben Simon]

Isn't the new testament thinking that John the Baptist fulfilled the role of Elijah? ...Yet another subversion of supernatural prophetic expectation.

[william7]

I do know that it is tradition to leave an empty seat, pour a cup of wine, and leave the door open for Elijah on Passover in case he decides to show up.

We set a place for Elijah at the table for Passover too. We didn't, however, pour a cup of wine for him in case he comes as a Nazarite like John the Baptist. Luke 1:5-17.

The reason some of us believe another Elijah will come again is because in Matthew 17:11,12 Yahshua says "to be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things" in response to the disciples question on why the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first. We know that John the Baptist didn't restore all things and Malachi 4:5 says Elijah comes before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. When Yahshua walked the earth and was crucified, it clearly wasn't the great and dreadful day of the Lord. In fact, it was Yahshua who suffered on the cross instead. Yahshua informed His disciples that His kingdom was still in the future at a time set by the Father. Acts 1:6,7.

I personally believe that when the prophesied Elijah comes he will explain just what must be done for the technological singularity to succeed.

[william7]

Isn't the new testament thinking that John the Baptist fulfilled the role of Elijah? ...Yet another subversion of supernatural prophetic expectation.

Notice my response above. John the Baptist did fulfill some of the role of the prophesied Elijah, but not all of it. It only makes sense that another Elijah will appear just before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Some think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation 11:1-12.

[Vgamer1]

So then, Elijah3... Do you think Elijah has come yet? Is it Kurzweil?

[william7]

So then, Elijah3... Do you think Elijah has come yet? Is it Kurzweil?

Being Kurzweil is a nonreligious man, I doubt it's him. Who knows maybe Yahweh will tap him for the job.

There are a number of people who still believe that Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophesied Elijah and that he restored all things. See, for example, http://groups.yahoo....up/elijahforum/ and http://www.thetrumpe...book&q=34.6.0.6 (Chapter 4).

There's also an Institute named after Elijah the prophet that seems to be trying to fulfill the prophecy. See http://www.elijah-in...ith.org/?id=507.

I would like to lay claim to the office, but nobody is likely to recognize me an old, broke, ex-convict anyway. I guess I'm just a wannabe.

[Vgamer1]

I believe you could be Elijah. I said earlier that I believe someone alive today is the Messiah. I can only hope that things work out for me, my family, and friends. What's your name by the way?

[PWAIN]

So then, Elijah3... Do you think Elijah has come yet? Is it Kurzweil?

More Likely this guy:

http://bluebrain.epf.../page18900.html

Checkout the details fof the Blue Brain project here:

http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

This looks to me the most likely to succeed at this time.

[william7]

I believe you could be Elijah.

Gee thanks! You're my first fan.

I said earlier that I believe someone alive today is the Messiah

There's nobody walking the earth right now that's the Messiah. Acts 1:9-11 clearly points out that the Messiah will return from heaven in the very same way He left.

I can only hope that things work out for me, my family, and friends.

The best advice I can give you is to study the Scriptures carefully and put into practice what you learn. The Twelve Tribes have a lot of knowledge. Checkout their website, at http://www.twelvetribes.com/whoweare/, and visit one of their communities. They have two communities in California.

The Twelve Tribes also feel they're doing the work of Elijah. One of the songs they sung and danced to when I visited them said they were turning the hearts of the children to their fathers as stated Elijah will do just before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Malachi 4:5.

The United Church of God an International Association has some excellent free literature and videos worth studying too. Their website is at http://www.gnmagazin...about/index.htm.

You can always PM me if you have a question you think I can answer.

[william7]

So then, Elijah3... Do you think Elijah has come yet? Is it Kurzweil?

More Likely this guy:

http://bluebrain.epf.../page18900.html

Checkout the details fof the Blue Brain project here:

http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

This looks to me the most likely to succeed at this time.

Highly unlikely. The Blue Brain Project will most likely result in a wider variety of psychotropic medications that don't cure anything but are instead hazardous to mental health.

Checkout the videos below. I would really want to know if this guy, Henry Markram, has any ties to the pharmaceutical industry and where the funding for Blue Brain Project is coming from.

Psychiatry & Big Pharma - Making A Killing

Making A Killing Pt 2

[Vgamer1]

There's nobody walking the earth right now that's the Messiah. Acts 1:9-11 clearly points out that the Messiah will return from heaven in the very same way He left.

How literally do you take this exactly?

[daren]

There's nobody walking the earth right now that's the Messiah. Acts 1:9-11 clearly points out that the Messiah will return from heaven in the very same way He left.

How literally do you take this exactly?

My guess is that if he take this literally then he believes that the messiah will be crucified into existance.

[Vgamer1]

Don't mind daren. My question is still a serious one.

[william7]

There's nobody walking the earth right now that's the Messiah. Acts 1:9-11 clearly points out that the Messiah will return from heaven in the very same way He left.

How literally do you take this exactly?

I think He will physically return in person as the Scriptures indicate, but I do see a possibility that He will return in a symbolic fashion without a physical presence. When the world puts His teachings into the fullest possible practice and we achieve a Utopian existence as a result, we will know He has returned symbolically and spiritually if He has not returned physically.

[Vgamer1]

So Elijah... Do you believe the Messiah exists?

[william7]

So Elijah... Do you believe the Messiah exists?

Yes, I believe the Messiah (Yahshua) exists, but not as a flesh and blood human walking the earth today. I believe He exists in heaven and is waiting for the Father (Yahweh) to send Him back to us as the ruler of His kingdom on earth. Beyond Today has a nice video on the return of the Messiah you might want to checkout, at http://www.beyondtod...ProgramID=bt032, when you get a chance.

Where I disagree with the Beyond Today people is on how we are to live in order to be accounted worthy enough to escape the "great tribulation" and be considered the "elect" as they discuss in the video. I believe we must give up everything and live communally as Yahshua taught and as His disciples and the early Church in the book of Acts did. Matthew 19:21, 27; Luke 14:33; Acts 2:44-45; 4:32. After man has humbly and meekly learned to live communally - while keeping the commandments of Yahweh and following the other teachings of Yahshua - for a reasonable length of time, then he will be able to safely utilize the advanced, but dangerous technologies necessary for obtaining longer lifespans and eventually reaching immortality.

[Vgamer1]

Hey, Elijah. I found this page through google. Let me know what you think of its accuracy and relevance.

http://www.bci.org/p...lled/elijah.htm

[william7]

Hey, Elijah. I found this page through google. Let me know what you think of its accuracy and relevance.

http://www.bci.org/p...lled/elijah.htm

Thanks for the link! It was very interesting. We here at the Bible campus I live on tend to believe the next Elijah will come in a similar fashion as John the Baptist did. Notice in Luke 1:11-17 that it says John the Baptist would go in the spirit and power of Elijah.

From the Scriptures, we know that the first Elijah is not in heaven waiting to be sent to us. He's dead and in the grave waiting on the resurrection the same as King David and the rest of the prophets and saints. See Acts 2:29-34; Heaven & Hell: What Does The Bible Really Teach?, at http://www.gnmagazin...lijahheaven.htm.

[drus]

i think it's just the next step in our evolution...plain and simple.

[Vgamer1]

i think it's just the next step in our evolution...plain and simple.

Hmmm.... I didn't really include an option like that. I guess I was a bit narrow-minded and considered it in a more spiritual sense. Did you pick a poll choice? If so, which was it?

[quintin3265]

So then, Elijah3... Do you think Elijah has come yet? Is it Kurzweil?

More Likely this guy:

http://bluebrain.epf.../page18900.html

Checkout the details fof the Blue Brain project here:

http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

This looks to me the most likely to succeed at this time.

Highly unlikely. The Blue Brain Project will most likely result in a wider variety of psychotropic medications that don't cure anything but are instead hazardous to mental health.

Checkout the videos below. I would really want to know if this guy, Henry Markram, has any ties to the pharmaceutical industry and where the funding for Blue Brain Project is coming from.

Psychiatry & Big Pharma - Making A Killing

Making A Killing Pt 2

I'm not sure if I see it this way. Psychotropic medications saved my life, or at least made me unhappy enough to function again. Nutritional supplements caused mania that nearly ended it. I get tired of people blaming the "evil pharmaceutical industry" for all our ills. I don't see how the pharmaceutical industry is different from the supplement industry, except that much more rigorous testing is performed on pharmaceuticals.

People who believe that psychiatric medications are unnecessary, I believe, are not ill enough to justify taking them. It makes sense that people who are healthy stand a greater chance to be harmed by these medications than unhealthy people because any negative effects would be masked by the original symptoms.

[Alex Libman]

I see civilization and humanity as two different things, with the former being a process that can involve any "rational economic actors" that are sufficiently intelligent: humans as we exist today, genetically altered superhumans / parahumans / animals, cyborgs, "brains in fish tanks", virtualized human brains, AI, and whatever extraterrestrial intelligence may be. As civilization spreads from just the first kind of intelligence (humans as we exist today) to the other categories I've listed the growth will continue, but the amount that we are able to contribute to it will decline.

It's a big universe out there, and I doubt that super-intelligent beings will see any value in harming humans, just leave us on this little retirement home of a planet while they expand to explore and utilize the universe. It's actually quite possible that humanity will split between people who accept transhumanism and expand beyond biological existence and neo-Luddites / environmentalists who will regress into a more primitive existence, and in time will only be able to worship the rest of civilization as gods.

Edited by Alex Libman, 13 April 2010 - 03:48 AM.

[chris w]

Hey, I was just thinking. Lately I' ve been reading up on the Mormon doctrine and started to muse, has anyone thought seriously about trying to reach people like Mitt Romney and Harry Reid, and others of that sort that I might not know about ? Because If the goal in Mormonism is to become god yourself, doesn't it mean that they would at least be not unsymphatetic to transhumanism ? I know about the Mormon Transhumanist Association but how much can they do, I am not sure ? If you think of it, then maybe it shouldn't matter ( for the Mormons ) if you reach godliness by life extension and augmentation or by not drinking and smoking, polygamy and sacred underwear .

Edited by chris w, 18 April 2010 - 01:04 PM.