49 replies to this topic

[Vgamer1]

it'll be weaker than our meme...

Amen!!

[brokenportal]

Human is no disease, but the best thing that may have happened for earth and beyond, we'd turn it into "computer" like thing and pilot it around, let it gain freedom and be aware. we;re the species that can change environment for the better.

The other meme IS mad, so MAD: Mutually Assured Destruction. It be be MAD for human and earth (+ system and galaxY) , we can extend the span of both.

fight against MAD: Mutually Assured Destruction of planet earth and its dominant species.

No More MAD memes!!

I still maintain that death-meme is a MAD meme, absolutely mad, that can accelerate Mutually Assured Destruction of Human & planet EARTH

The death meme was at one time, from the beginning of time up until a couple of decades ago, a brilliant meme. It helped sooth the relentless horrific thoughts of death and eternal obliteration and possible meaninglessness of existence by making death seem alright and memeing in all kinds of ideas like religion, reincarnation and a loyalty to "nature". I think that realizing that may help in defeating it. If we show people that we understand and explain this all to them it helps them to understand.

We were all like a village living under the rule of a terrible dragon, who would fly in and take villagers at will. People developed legends about why it was alright, "If the dragon takes more men than women it will be a bad harvest, if they take any children we will have sickness this year" or whatever. They dont realize that a serious brigade has been dispatched to find the dragons lair, has found it, and has got it on the defensive. Its going to take a while to get the village to let their guard down. They are used to living under the horrific reign of the dragon since the dawn of time, who can blame them for developing ways to cope with it? We were all like those villagers not to long ago, and we would still be if this were 20 years ago.

This reminds me of the second video in this topic: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=23780 It compares characters in some lord of the rings scenes to people at imminst. I think that kind of thing makes for a cool inspirational "nootrope".

[JediMasterLucia]

Some of those people have a "Napolean Dynomite" complex as we're calling it. Just avoid those people, they will say anything about anything to make it sound as if they are right. Just convince all the people around them and they will eventually come around, and then claim that they were with the program all along. We are adding ideas like that to a "cpat" combatting the pro aging trance project on lines 36-38 at the google doc of life extension exposure expedition projects.

I think its not good to avoid them. I think it will be better to let them know there could be other options than the the way of nature.
I think if you tell regular what you think about this, mabey they will understand (or not) (not pushing, but just tell the stuff and I mean the basics)

[brokenportal]

Some of those people have a "Napolean Dynomite" complex as we're calling it. Just avoid those people, they will say anything about anything to make it sound as if they are right. Just convince all the people around them and they will eventually come around, and then claim that they were with the program all along. We are adding ideas like that to a "cpat" combatting the pro aging trance project on lines 36-38 at the google doc of life extension exposure expedition projects.

I think its not good to avoid them. I think it will be better to let them know there could be other options than the the way of nature.
I think if you tell regular what you think about this, mabey they will understand (or not) (not pushing, but just tell the stuff and I mean the basics)

Thats what I used to think too, but have you ever tried to discuss something with Napolean Dynomite?

They drain your energy, waste your time and demoralize you, at least they do to me many times out of ten. The best thing Ive found that you can do with people like that is convince all the people around them to beleive in life extension and they will naturally follow the crowd. Of course though, they will pretend they arent following the crowd, and that they thought all this stuff all along.

[JediMasterLucia]

No, I haven't .
What is that with Napolean Dynomite? what I found it was a (bad) movie ( I haven't seen it)

What I try to do is to make sometime hints about it or I try to
philosophize about this topic at a very basic level. (like with my husband and my friends.)
I not trying to convince them. That doesn't work (hopefully I let them think about this)

[brokenportal]

Napolean Dynomite is a person that says things as though they new them all along and as if they know everything and they act pretensiously and stuff like that.

Ive found that it seems best to avoid them, but they are worth talking to if you want to. In any case, vgamer and I are working on a project that will help with something like this. We need more people to help. If you want to then please do give ideas. Its a list of ways for getting through to people. It will help give people ideas and teach them effective techniques for getting people to support life extension and or come out of the pro aging trance.

We have about 8 techniques outlined so far at line number 36 of that google doc. we are calling leeep, "life extension exposure expedition projects" Please try some of those out and tell us if they work for you, and add any other techniques that havent been listed yet.

[s123]

Look at this quote from the VHEMT website:

Death comes soon enough -- far too soon for many of us. After working most of our lives, a dozen years of retirement isn't too much to ask.

[brokenportal]

Look at this quote from the VHEMT website:

Death comes soon enough -- far too soon for many of us. After working most of our lives, a dozen years of retirement isn't too much to ask.

Indefinity isnt to much to ask for either.

They also say this.

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.

And I agree, they can help us solve these problems when they become less dense. Then they will see that phasing out the human race is best accomplished by helping turn it into a transhuman race, with more wise people and technology to help us run a less fallacy filled world. Its fallacy that is harming us, and fallacy can be learned out. The solution is to learn it out, not kill people off. To them its like, "ma? my car burns oil and I have to keep refueling it, can we call the scrap yard and have it junked?" You maintain and upgrade the car to hybrid, solar, etc.. you dont scrap it.

Edited by brokenportal, 29 December 2008 - 07:46 PM.

[JediMasterLucia]

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.

the solution is this: to find clean energy sources. take good care of our world and each other.
And in the future we are going to find more planets to live: the universe is big enough (no overcrowding)

[FunkOdyssey]

But there is good news: as they age, fail to reproduce, and welcome death, their meme will die right along with them. Problem solved!

you mean like the catholic priesthood

memes don't need their hosts to reproduce if there are fresh hosts to infect.

There is an important difference. In the catholic religion, the priests do not reproduce, but everyone who attends the church and listens to the sermons *does*. Then they perpetuate it by indoctrinating their offspring from an early age.

Here, everyone infected with this meme ceases to reproduce. If that isn't a self-limiting problem I don't know what is.

[absent minded]

Wouldn't they lose even if they succeeded? Or are they completely okay with the possible situation of repeated asteroid strikes that will reset evolution multiple times over the next several hundred million years? And what if one of those asteroids truly was a life killer and just turned Earth into Venus?

If a species managed to evolve in time to develop the technology to shoot down or deflect an incoming asteroid, it'd be pretty obvious they might end up in the same path as us.

Edited by Raizy, 30 December 2008 - 09:00 AM.

[almighty]

interesting bunch of replys, but i feel these people have a bit of a solution to a problem, but they seem to be going at it wrong. With things the way they are right now, what goverment is going to let their population life extend without some sort of a reason, currently over population is an issue and if extensionist and standard breeding practices take place it will be much worst, no jobs, no homes, lots and lots of problems. If earths population lowers or becomes more stable, then life extension is a geuine possibility, obviously you can not stop breeding, with new minds come new ideas, ask any scientist and they will prolly say they are semi-set in their ways, but young scientist are still looking for answers, hence the evolution of string theory over the last 40 years.

Now when jar heads become avalible transhumanism wont be as much of a burden on society, and as we colonize other planets and gain ground population will be able to grow but until then we are over populated, and have very skued/conficting goals.

I personaly do not have any children (25yo), this is for many reason, 1. im upset with this economy and the state that the world is in and dont want to bring another being into a world so screwy 2. i have yet to find an acceptable mate, seems like all the women i find are either of low IQ, or unfaithful, or crazy (i know not all women are like this but i have my doubts lol) 3. if transhumanism comes forward in the next few years it is possible limited seats would be avalible and im not sure if i would allow myself to join if i could not bring my offspring with me, as im already having issues with most of my family not wishing to join the movement.

thats all i have to say about that

Todd

[brokenportal]

interesting bunch of replys, but i feel these people have a bit of a solution to a problem, but they seem to be going at it wrong. With things the way they are right now, what goverment is going to let their population life extend without some sort of a reason, currently over population is an issue and if extensionist and standard breeding practices take place it will be much worst, no jobs, no homes, lots and lots of problems. If earths population lowers or becomes more stable, then life extension is a geuine possibility, obviously you can not stop breeding, with new minds come new ideas, ask any scientist and they will prolly say they are semi-set in their ways, but young scientist are still looking for answers, hence the evolution of string theory over the last 40 years.

Now when jar heads become avalible transhumanism wont be as much of a burden on society, and as we colonize other planets and gain ground population will be able to grow but until then we are over populated, and have very skued/conficting goals.

I personaly do not have any children (25yo), this is for many reason, 1. im upset with this economy and the state that the world is in and dont want to bring another being into a world so screwy 2. i have yet to find an acceptable mate, seems like all the women i find are either of low IQ, or unfaithful, or crazy (i know not all women are like this but i have my doubts lol) 3. if transhumanism comes forward in the next few years it is possible limited seats would be avalible and im not sure if i would allow myself to join if i could not bring my offspring with me, as im already having issues with most of my family not wishing to join the movement.

thats all i have to say about that

Todd

Population is a concern but not one that ads up to be enough to advocate standing by while 100,000 people die, mostly miserable painful deaths, by aging every single day. When better hygeine and penecilin and stuff came along and made it so that the hight rate of infant death went way down then people started using rubbers and other methods of contraception voluntarily to help keep the population down. There will be plenty of ways to handle a possible over population problem other than the advocacy of death. One of my favorite analogies to this is a blog I wrote likening the situation to a warehouse with 600 people trapped in it forever.

Also, I was reading about a concept that somebody around here pointed out a while back, that as our lifespans get longer, the average age that people that want to bear children decide to have them at will go up. Since the average will be to have kids later in life, the birth rate will go down. If anything we have an underpopulation problem to worry about here, neither problem of which should have the advocacy of eternal obliteration of people as there solution.

[Cyberbrain]

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.

It's true that the less there are of us, the less crowded it would be. But controlling population problems by voluntaring to die is not the ultimate solution. What is this Soylent Green? We can easily manage the population by defeating death. Perhaps reproducing less, etc. I believe people have the right to their life and if they want they have the right to end it (no one should force them to live forever). But this site is just awful. It's like the movie the day the earth stood still. Wipe out the human race so the earth can survive? Human life comes first and foremost!

[modelcadet]

VHEMT obviously hasn't seen Children of Men!

"I can't really remember when I last had any hope, and I certainly can't remember when anyone else did either (because really, since women stopped being able to have babies, what's left to hope for)."

Edited by modelcadet, 13 January 2009 - 12:55 PM.

[LEEEP72project]

We should interview these people on the Sunday Evening Update!!!

[Ben]

We should interview these people on the Sunday Evening Update!!!

Awesome idea!

[cyborgdreamer]

VHEMT obviously hasn't seen Children of Men!

"I can't really remember when I last had any hope, and I certainly can't remember when anyone else did either (because really, since women stopped being able to have babies, what's left to hope for)."

I hated that movie. How could those people be more upset about the absence of birth than the presence of death?

[Mind]

We should interview these people on the Sunday Evening Update!!!

I'll ask them.

[technetium]

I view groups like the VHEM as extreme bioconservative misanthropes, a small sub set of a group (bioconservatives) that of itself is fast approaching redundancy. As the speed of technological progress advances exponentially in the NBIC fields, the groups opposed to them will become even more marginalised until they are seen as joke entities by a transhuman majority.

Edited by technetium, 31 March 2009 - 08:31 PM.