39 replies to this topic

[rwac]

Just curious as to why/how you take fish oil.

[rwac]

Just curious as to why/how you take fish oil.

Also, does anybody out there use seal oil for DPA ?
Is there a noticeable difference ?

[rwac]

I do hope everybody here is aware that taking alpha-tocopherol depletes gamma-tocopherol

gamma-tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E in the US diet, deserves more attention.

[nameless]

At what dosage does alpha deplete gamma? I was under the impression it was high doses only, over 100 IU or thereabouts.

I try to keep my alpha intake around the RDA level (or slightly higher) but I don't take extra gamma, besides what's in my multi already. I sometimes use Jarrow fish oil, which has gamma in it too. It's a shame that fishy companies, like Carlson or Nordic, rely on alpha only in their oils.

[rwac]

At what dosage does alpha deplete gamma? I was under the impression it was high doses only, over 100 IU or thereabouts.

I try to keep my alpha intake around the RDA level (or slightly higher) but I don't take extra gamma, besides what's in my multi already. I sometimes use Jarrow fish oil, which has gamma in it too. It's a shame that fishy companies, like Carlson or Nordic, rely on alpha only in their oils.

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.
I also started having a bad reaction to vitamin E supplements.

Later I discovered full spectrum E, which worked quite well.
Of course, I don't know how much Gamma-Tocopherol you're getting
(I wasn't taking a multivit at the time), so you might be fine.

[spacetime]

Most cheaper mutlis only use d-alpha which may lead to gamma depletion and eventually deficiency. Are there any products that contain mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols but without the alpha pherol. It seems the alpha isomer still comprises a majority even in these mixed formulations. So how would we go about correcting a gamma deficiency, especially one created by years of using inferior vitamins?

[rwac]

Most cheaper mutlis only use d-alpha which may lead to gamma depletion and eventually deficiency. Are there any products that contain mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols but without the alpha pherol. It seems the alpha isomer still comprises a majority even in these mixed formulations. So how would we go about correcting a gamma deficiency, especially one created by years of using inferior vitamins?

I use Jarrow FamilE. It has a comparatively higher Gamma-Tocopherol, tocotrienols.
This is the best priced full-spectrum E I have found.

Anybody have better suggestions ?

Edited by rwac, 13 December 2008 - 07:03 AM.

[pycnogenol]

I take:

- Allergy Research Group Delta-Fraction Tocotrienols
- Jarrow Formulas Gamma E 300
- Carlson Labs E-Gems
- Country Life Ultra Omega DHA/EPA

[stephen_b]

At what dosage does alpha deplete gamma?

I thought that a minimum 2:1 gamma:alpha ratio was needed, though I don't have a hard number or know how rigorously this rule of thumb has been tested.

StephenB

[mitkat]

I take Nutrasea High Potentcy, also taking Jarrow FamilE.

[VampIyer]

Right now I'm using the AOR "TOTAL E" because I got a good deal on it. I also take orthocore.

After this I'm thinking about switching to Primordial Performance's Toco-8: http://www.primordia...mine_Toco8.html - however I have a good amount of time to rethink that decision.

Fish oil: http://www.iherb.com...px?c=1&pid=4251 = Natural Factors RxOmega (High concentration and decent price)

I was adding this Arctic Pure EPA: http://www.iherb.com...c...d=1451&at=0 for extra EPA, but the price has gone up.

Is there any good research on the triglyceride EPA/DHA vs esterified? I noticed that the Country Life product claims it is better absorbed. It looks like they remove the glycol after distillation.

[rwac]

Right now I'm using the AOR "TOTAL E" because I got a good deal on it. I also take orthocore.

After this I'm thinking about switching to Primordial Performance's Toco-8: http://www.primordia...mine_Toco8.html - however I have a good amount of time to rethink that decision.

Fish oil: http://www.iherb.com...px?c=1&pid=4251 = Natural Factors RxOmega (High concentration and decent price)

I was adding this Arctic Pure EPA: http://www.iherb.com...c...d=1451&at=0 for extra EPA, but the price has gone up.

Is there any good research on the triglyceride EPA/DHA vs esterified? I noticed that the Country Life product claims it is better absorbed. It looks like they remove the glycol after distillation.

It appears that free form fatty acids are the best absorbed, followed by triglyceride, and worst is ethyl-ester

From wikipedia

^ Lawson, L.D.; Hughes, B.G. (October 1988). "Absorption of eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid from fish oil triacylglycerols or fish oil ethyl esters co-ingested with a high-fat meal". Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications 156 (2): 960–963. PMID 2847723.

^ Beckermann, B.; Beneke, M.; Seitz, I. (June 1990). "Comparative bioavailability of eicosapentaenoic acid and docasahexaenoic acid from triglycerides, free fatty acids and ethyl esters in volunteers". Arzneimittel-Forschung 40 (6): 700–704. PMID 2144420.

Edited by rwac, 14 December 2008 - 05:08 AM.

[niner]

Regarding the alpha tocopherol that comes with the fish oil, my impression is that it's a very small amount. Anyone know how much is there? Is it a significant source of alpha-tocopherol?

[nameless]

Regarding the alpha tocopherol that comes with the fish oil, my impression is that it's a very small amount. Anyone know how much is there? Is it a significant source of alpha-tocopherol?

Most brands list it on the label. What brand do you use? I've seen anywhere from 0-30IU per serving.

[rwac]

People who marked other as the type of fish oil you take, do you mind commenting on what you take ?

[nowayout]

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.

Curious as to how you know this. Did you have any tests done?

[rwac]

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.

Curious as to how you know this. Did you have any tests done?

I find relying on "gut feel" gives me a quicker turnaround than blood tests.
But then, I'm pretty sensitive to these effects.

At the end, it was so bad, I would feel sick minutes after taking the fish oil.
(Tried different fish oils, same effect)
Then I tried vitamin E (alpha tocopherol), didn't like it much at all.

At this point I found out about Gamma Tocopherol and stuff.

Tried full spectrum vitamin E, it was great!

I can't always pinpoint the relevant supplement, though ....

I have to add that this was one of the first supplements I tried, along with Resveratrol.
I had no clue what I was doing ...

Edited by rwac, 15 December 2008 - 06:11 PM.

[nowayout]

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.

Curious as to how you know this. Did you have any tests done?

I find relying on "gut feel" gives me a quicker turnaround than blood tests.
But then, I'm pretty sensitive to these effects.

At the end, it was so bad, I would feel sick minutes after taking the fish oil.

Oh, the power of suggestion...

[rwac]

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.

Curious as to how you know this. Did you have any tests done?

I find relying on "gut feel" gives me a quicker turnaround than blood tests.
But then, I'm pretty sensitive to these effects.

At the end, it was so bad, I would feel sick minutes after taking the fish oil.

Oh, the power of suggestion...

How does the power of suggestion explain that ?
I was feeling bad after taking fish oil before I learned about lipid peroxidation.

[nowayout]

I think I ran into trouble after about six months of taking about 30-50 IU alpha-tocopherol
along with about 4 g of fish oil.
I started have lipid peroxidation issues.

Curious as to how you know this. Did you have any tests done?

I find relying on "gut feel" gives me a quicker turnaround than blood tests.
But then, I'm pretty sensitive to these effects.

At the end, it was so bad, I would feel sick minutes after taking the fish oil.

Oh, the power of suggestion...

How does the power of suggestion explain that ?
I was feeling bad after taking fish oil before I learned about lipid peroxidation.

Oh, okay. However, I think a few minutes are too soon to feel the effects of lipid peroxidation, if indeed that is something that can be felt in the short term at all. Digestion and absorption likely takes much longer than a few minutes.

[rwac]

Oh, okay. However, I think a few minutes are too soon to feel the effects of lipid peroxidation, if indeed that is something that can be felt in the short term at all. Digestion and absorption likely takes much longer than a few minutes.

I have no explanation, but I used to feel both the positive and negative effects of the fish oil
within minutes.

Some sort of leaky gut issue ?

[nowayout]

Oh, okay. However, I think a few minutes are too soon to feel the effects of lipid peroxidation, if indeed that is something that can be felt in the short term at all. Digestion and absorption likely takes much longer than a few minutes.

I have no explanation, but I used to feel both the positive and negative effects of the fish oil
within minutes.

Some sort of leaky gut issue ?

Indigestion? Reflux? Rancid supplement? Did you take it with a meal (before, not after)? After all, fish oil is pretty nasty stuff and may need some help going down.

Certain kinds of highly fatty foods make me feel pretty sick, simply because my digestion is not used to dealing with them.

[NDM]

I take daily 2620 mg EPA + >800 mg DHA. Split in two doses (mid-morning and mid-afternoon)

I don't buy the AOR argument that DHA may be detrimental to mood, but I do agree with them on the idea that relatively young adults don't need too much DHA.

[rwac]

I take daily 2620 mg EPA + >800 mg DHA. Split in two doses (mid-morning and mid-afternoon)

I don't buy the AOR argument that DHA may be detrimental to mood, but I do agree with them on the idea that relatively young adults don't need too much DHA.

I don't buy that at all.
I'm relatively young, and EPA doesn't help me much.
I prefer DHA for it's cognitive benefits.

But then, I'm hardly healthy, so maybe different rules apply.

[Dmitri]

Most cheaper mutlis only use d-alpha which may lead to gamma depletion and eventually deficiency. Are there any products that contain mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols but without the alpha pherol. It seems the alpha isomer still comprises a majority even in these mixed formulations. So how would we go about correcting a gamma deficiency, especially one created by years of using inferior vitamins?

I use Jarrow FamilE. It has a comparatively higher Gamma-Tocopherol, tocotrienols.
This is the best priced full-spectrum E I have found.

Anybody have better suggestions ?

Thanks for the link, I’ve been meaning to add E supplements to my regimen but was having trouble finding a brand that did not contain mega-doses and that had all 8 forms. I read that taking more than 400 IU increased mortality; that doesn’t seem to be a problem with the Jarrow Familee right (if I'm not mistaken gamma comes close)?

[rwac]

Most cheaper mutlis only use d-alpha which may lead to gamma depletion and eventually deficiency. Are there any products that contain mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols but without the alpha pherol. It seems the alpha isomer still comprises a majority even in these mixed formulations. So how would we go about correcting a gamma deficiency, especially one created by years of using inferior vitamins?

I use Jarrow FamilE. It has a comparatively higher Gamma-Tocopherol, tocotrienols.
This is the best priced full-spectrum E I have found.

Anybody have better suggestions ?

Thanks for the link, I've been meaning to add E supplements to my regimen but was having trouble finding a brand that did not contain mega-doses and that had all 8 forms. I read that taking more than 400 IU increased mortality; that doesn't seem to be a problem with the Jarrow Familee right (if I'm not mistaken gamma comes close)?

Hmm, I believe that study indicating increased mortality due to 400 IU vitamin E was done with supplemention of 400 IU of alpha-tocopherol.

It's a very flawed study.

It's quite well known that alpha depletes the gamma version. No idea why people repeatedly carry out studies using plain alpha-tocopherol.

[Dmitri]

Most cheaper mutlis only use d-alpha which may lead to gamma depletion and eventually deficiency. Are there any products that contain mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols but without the alpha pherol. It seems the alpha isomer still comprises a majority even in these mixed formulations. So how would we go about correcting a gamma deficiency, especially one created by years of using inferior vitamins?

I use Jarrow FamilE. It has a comparatively higher Gamma-Tocopherol, tocotrienols.
This is the best priced full-spectrum E I have found.

Anybody have better suggestions ?

Thanks for the link, I've been meaning to add E supplements to my regimen but was having trouble finding a brand that did not contain mega-doses and that had all 8 forms. I read that taking more than 400 IU increased mortality; that doesn't seem to be a problem with the Jarrow Familee right (if I'm not mistaken gamma comes close)?

Hmm, I believe that study indicating increased mortality due to 400 IU vitamin E was done with supplemention of 400 IU of alpha-tocopherol.

It's a very flawed study.

It's quite well known that alpha depletes the gamma version. No idea why people repeatedly carry out studies using plain alpha-tocopherol.

I see, perhaps scientists keep using those forms because they want the studies to end in failures? Didn't the authors of Ascorbate: The Science of Vit C mention something about scientists having trouble getting funding for well controlled studies too show the effectiveness of Vitamins, yet studies that show negative results are funded very well? There's something strange going on there and further suspicion is raised by the fact they keep using forms that have been proven to be ineffective.

Edited by Dmitri, 29 December 2008 - 09:32 AM.

[Jay]

Anybody know of any full-spectrum E, like the Jarrow FamilE, that doesn't come in soy oil? Seems counter-productive to take a gram of omega 6 oil with my fish oil pills...

[nameless]

Anybody know of any full-spectrum E, like the Jarrow FamilE, that doesn't come in soy oil? Seems counter-productive to take a gram of omega 6 oil with my fish oil pills...

http://www.iherb.com...tgels/8627?at=0

I'm not entirely sure of their breakdown, I think it's primarily alpha/gamma and some of the other tocopherols. You'd have to get tocotrienols separately (AC Grace makes that too).

http://www.iherb.com...ules/12977?at=0

There is also a rice bran oil tocotrienol from Doctor's Best.
http://www.iherb.com...ules/17131?at=0

I don't currently take large doses of E, but if I ever decided to, I think the AC Grace products may be the way to go. Looks like good quality.

Edited by nameless, 17 June 2009 - 04:50 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Wow, their stuff looks really good. I'm going to switch from the Jarrow FamilE when I use it up. Thanks nameless.