7 replies to this topic

[remlon]

I recently read over the skincare routine of a lady on MakeupAlley (www.makeupalley.com) in which she says that, after her cleansing/toning etc, she layers on Bioderma Photoderm Max spf 50+ before proceeding to her office job, which from what I gathered is only about ten minutes away. Now, it got me thinking. There's a huge noise being made amongst US sunscreen users about Tinosorb M and S, and how much more effective they are compared to inorganic filters like Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Dioxide. But is that extra really necessary for daily use? Sure, if you're planning to spend a significant amount of time outside, the higher PPDs are not only useful but highly protective. But for daily use? What's the use of layering on spf 50+ sunscreen with a PPD of 35 and then sitting down to your office job? I can anticipate Frederiks reply: "It's because studies show that most people apply only a fraction of the amount that's used to test the spf value in a lab", but let's say you apply your sunscreen generously! Since when are a greater amount of active ingredients better for your skin? Provided there's obviously a minimum of, say, spf 30 (96-97% UVB rays blocked), do we need these massive SPF and PPD numbers? Viewed in this light, what's wrong with inorganic filters which, though not as efficient as the likes Tinosorb or Mexoryl, still provide decent protection with virtually no risk of skin irritation?

A figurative penny for your thoughts....?

[Eva Victoria]

I recently read over the skincare routine of a lady on MakeupAlley (www.makeupalley.com) in which she says that, after her cleansing/toning etc, she layers on Bioderma Photoderm Max spf 50+ before proceeding to her office job, which from what I gathered is only about ten minutes away. Now, it got me thinking. There's a huge noise being made amongst US sunscreen users about Tinosorb M and S, and how much more effective they are compared to inorganic filters like Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Dioxide. But is that extra really necessary for daily use? Sure, if you're planning to spend a significant amount of time outside, the higher PPDs are not only useful but highly protective. But for daily use? What's the use of layering on spf 50+ sunscreen with a PPD of 35 and then sitting down to your office job? I can anticipate Frederiks reply: "It's because studies show that most people apply only a fraction of the amount that's used to test the spf value in a lab", but let's say you apply your sunscreen generously! Since when are a greater amount of active ingredients better for your skin? Provided there's obviously a minimum of, say, spf 30 (96-97% UVB rays blocked), do we need these massive SPF and PPD numbers? Viewed in this light, what's wrong with inorganic filters which, though not as efficient as the likes Tinosorb or Mexoryl, still provide decent protection with virtually no risk of skin irritation?

A figurative penny for your thoughts....?

Little UVA damage every day adds up to greater damage than deliberate suntanning for an hour or two every week.
Hence it is very important to protect oneself against UVA rays every day.

Inorganic sunscreens are better to protect skin against UVA and UVB light since they do not photo degree in the sun rays.
However not everybody likes the white cast of these filters on their skin. Then a good alternative is the organic sunscreens. The drawback can be that they have to be reapplied every 2 hours to keep their protection level (esp. in the UVA range), they have to be photo-stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl or OC). They can irritate the skin. And they can even become oxidizers for skincells.
Still these filters are better alternatives than not using any protection at all!

[Ben]

I recently read over the skincare routine of a lady on MakeupAlley (www.makeupalley.com) in which she says that, after her cleansing/toning etc, she layers on Bioderma Photoderm Max spf 50+ before proceeding to her office job, which from what I gathered is only about ten minutes away. Now, it got me thinking. There's a huge noise being made amongst US sunscreen users about Tinosorb M and S, and how much more effective they are compared to inorganic filters like Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Dioxide. But is that extra really necessary for daily use? Sure, if you're planning to spend a significant amount of time outside, the higher PPDs are not only useful but highly protective. But for daily use? What's the use of layering on spf 50+ sunscreen with a PPD of 35 and then sitting down to your office job? I can anticipate Frederiks reply: "It's because studies show that most people apply only a fraction of the amount that's used to test the spf value in a lab", but let's say you apply your sunscreen generously! Since when are a greater amount of active ingredients better for your skin? Provided there's obviously a minimum of, say, spf 30 (96-97% UVB rays blocked), do we need these massive SPF and PPD numbers? Viewed in this light, what's wrong with inorganic filters which, though not as efficient as the likes Tinosorb or Mexoryl, still provide decent protection with virtually no risk of skin irritation?

A figurative penny for your thoughts....?

Little UVA damage every day adds up to greater damage than deliberate suntanning for an hour or two every week.
Hence it is very important to protect oneself against UVA rays every day.

Inorganic sunscreens are better to protect skin against UVA and UVB light since they do not photo degree in the sun rays.
However not everybody likes the white cast of these filters on their skin. Then a good alternative is the organic sunscreens. The drawback can be that they have to be reapplied every 2 hours to keep their protection level (esp. in the UVA range), they have to be photo-stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl or OC). They can irritate the skin. And they can even become oxidizers for skincells.
Still these filters are better alternatives than not using any protection at all!

What about the sun that comes through windows? I have a couple of windows in my bathroom that, while don't actually point at the sun directly, allow a lot of light through them anyway so that the bathroom is usually well lit. I'm concerned as this is I guess the time during the day when I'm wearing sunscreen: In the morning and before a shower.

What do you reckon?

[VictorBjoerk]

UVA lights pass through windows so your skin will be damaged.

[Eva Victoria]

I recently read over the skincare routine of a lady on MakeupAlley (www.makeupalley.com) in which she says that, after her cleansing/toning etc, she layers on Bioderma Photoderm Max spf 50+ before proceeding to her office job, which from what I gathered is only about ten minutes away. Now, it got me thinking. There's a huge noise being made amongst US sunscreen users about Tinosorb M and S, and how much more effective they are compared to inorganic filters like Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Dioxide. But is that extra really necessary for daily use? Sure, if you're planning to spend a significant amount of time outside, the higher PPDs are not only useful but highly protective. But for daily use? What's the use of layering on spf 50+ sunscreen with a PPD of 35 and then sitting down to your office job? I can anticipate Frederiks reply: "It's because studies show that most people apply only a fraction of the amount that's used to test the spf value in a lab", but let's say you apply your sunscreen generously! Since when are a greater amount of active ingredients better for your skin? Provided there's obviously a minimum of, say, spf 30 (96-97% UVB rays blocked), do we need these massive SPF and PPD numbers? Viewed in this light, what's wrong with inorganic filters which, though not as efficient as the likes Tinosorb or Mexoryl, still provide decent protection with virtually no risk of skin irritation?

A figurative penny for your thoughts....?

Little UVA damage every day adds up to greater damage than deliberate suntanning for an hour or two every week.
Hence it is very important to protect oneself against UVA rays every day.

Inorganic sunscreens are better to protect skin against UVA and UVB light since they do not photo degree in the sun rays.
However not everybody likes the white cast of these filters on their skin. Then a good alternative is the organic sunscreens. The drawback can be that they have to be reapplied every 2 hours to keep their protection level (esp. in the UVA range), they have to be photo-stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl or OC). They can irritate the skin. And they can even become oxidizers for skincells.
Still these filters are better alternatives than not using any protection at all!

What about the sun that comes through windows? I have a couple of windows in my bathroom that, while don't actually point at the sun directly, allow a lot of light through them anyway so that the bathroom is usually well lit. I'm concerned as this is I guess the time during the day when I'm wearing sunscreen: In the morning and before a shower.

What do you reckon?

As Victor has pointed out UVA pass through glass.
You can either put some kind of protection on the windows that'll seal/minimize UVA rays (like thick curtains).
Don't stay near the windows for longer period of time.
Try to sit on the North side of the house, I mean on the South side (since you live in AU) where there is shade, no direct sunshine.

[kai73]

Inorganic sunscreens are better to protect skin against UVA and UVB light since they do not photo degree in the sun rays.
However not everybody likes the white cast of these filters on their skin. Then a good alternative is the organic sunscreens. The drawback can be that they have to be reapplied every 2 hours to keep their protection level (esp. in the UVA range), they have to be photo-stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl or OC). They can irritate the skin. And they can even become oxidizers for skincells.
Still these filters are better alternatives than not using any protection at all!

can you list some good inorganic sunscreens and some organic ones ?

[Eva Victoria]

Inorganic sunscreens are better to protect skin against UVA and UVB light since they do not photo degree in the sun rays.
However not everybody likes the white cast of these filters on their skin. Then a good alternative is the organic sunscreens. The drawback can be that they have to be reapplied every 2 hours to keep their protection level (esp. in the UVA range), they have to be photo-stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl or OC). They can irritate the skin. And they can even become oxidizers for skincells.
Still these filters are better alternatives than not using any protection at all!

can you list some good inorganic sunscreens and some organic ones ?

I would recommend these filters: (Remember not one UV-filter is good enough alone, it should be in combination with other UV-filters which can give the broadest possible photostable protection).

Inorganic:
ZnO (UVA I-II protection)
TiO (UVB and UVA II protection)
20% concentration of ZnO will give a very good PPD. ZnO (non-micro)15% + TiO2 (micro) 5% will give an adequate UVB and UVA protection.

Organic:
AVO (UVA I protection) (should be stabilized by Tinosorb S or Mexoryl XS, cannot be combined with Inorganic filters in the US. EU yes. It should only combined with UNCOATED Inorganic filters!) 5-10% concentration
Tinosorb M 5-10% conc. (UVA II-Iprotection)
Tinosorb S (UVB + UVA II protection)
Mexoryl SX (UVA II protection)
Mexoryl XL (UVA II-I protection)
Octyl Methoxycinnamate (UVB protection)
Octocrylene (UVB + UVA II protection)

Good combos:
TiO2+ZnO (Avene Mineral Sunscreen, Bioderma Minerale)

TiO2, OMC, AVO, Tinosorb S, Tinosorb M, (ZnO) (Partially: Bioderma and Avene and Nivea in EU)
Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, OCR, Tinosorb S, AVO, TiO (All L'Oreal owned brands in EU)

Not good combos:
AVO, OMC, Octyl Salicilate or Benzophone-3 (Many US sunscreens or sunscreens produced by European companies selling the sunscreen in the US; unstable UV filter combo even when there is OCR).

[Eva Victoria]

In the attachment you'll find the list of all UV filters and their concentration permitted all over the World.

Attached Files

•  CRList_of_UV_filters.pdf   15.55KB   63 downloads