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Will Obama be our President?


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#1 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 01:56 AM


I'll laugh my ass off if in the end they tell Obama to take a hike. The problem is if they do who the hell would be our president?

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Eligibility remains focus of Supremes' conferences

Dispute posted on docket twice after Electoral College votes in

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Posted: December 26, 2008
10:40 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

A second conference has been posted on the docket for the U.S. Supreme Court over the issue of Barack Obama's eligibility to occupy the White House, this one scheduled a week after Congress is to review the Electoral College vote tabulation.

The latest issue posted is a request for an injunction on the election results pending the resolution of a petition for a writ of certiorari filed by attorney Philip J. Berg, a case that is docketed for a similar conference among the justices on Jan. 9.

Berg's original case raises questions about Obama's eligibility and his injunction request first was filed early in December. It was submitted to and rejected by two different justices before it came before Justice Antonin Scalia on Dec. 18. Then just before Christmas the docket was updated to reflect that the motion had been "distributed for conference of January 16, 2009."

On Berg's Obama Crimes.com website, he said Congress is scheduled to hear the Electoral College results on Jan. 8. Then on Jan. 9 there's the conference scheduled on Berg's case itself, with the injunction issue to be addressed a week later.

WND has reported Berg's case, one of the first legal challenges to Obama's eligibility to reach the Supreme Court, alleges he cannot constitutionally be inaugurated.

"I know that Mr. Obama is not a constitutionally qualified natural born citizen and is ineligible to assume the office of president of the United States," Berg said in a statement on his ObamaCrimes.com website.

"Obama knows he is not 'natural born' as he knows where he was born and he knows he was adopted in Indonesia; Obama is an attorney, Harvard Law grad who taught Constitutional law; Obama knows his candidacy is the largest 'hoax' attempted on the citizens of the United States in over 200 years; Obama places our Constitution in a 'crisis' situation; and Obama is in a situation where he can be blackmailed by leaders around the world who know Obama is not qualified," Berg's statement continued.

"The Supreme Court has listed the case of Berg vs. Obama for 'conference' on January 9," the website said.

"I am appalled that the main stream media continues to ignore this issue as we are headed to a 'Constitution Crisis,'" Berg wrote. "There is nothing more important than our U.S. Constitution and it must be enforced. I am concerned that our courts have not yet decided to look into the merits of our allegations."

WND previously reported on a case brought by Cort Wrotnowski. It fell by the wayside when the justices heard about it in conference but refused to give it a further hearing. That was the same fate handed to a case brought by Leo Donofrio. Both challenged Obama on essentially the same issue: allegations that dual citizenship based on a father who was a British subject and a mother who was an American minor disqualified him for office.


Where's the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the "natural-born American" clause in the Constitution? If you still want to see it, join more than 190,000 others and sign up now!

The high court previously turned down a request from Berg to stop the Electoral College from selecting the 44th president until Obama documents his eligibility for the office.

As WND has reported, more than a dozen lawsuits have been filed over Obama's eligibility to assume the office of the president, many have been dismissed, while others remain pending.

The cases, in various ways, have alleged Obama does not meet the "natural born citizen" clause of the U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, which reads, "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

Some of the legal challenges have alleged Obama was not born in Hawaii, as he insists, but in Kenya. Obama's American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.

Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. Such cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

Several details of Obama's past have added twists to the question of his eligibility and citizenship, including his family's move to Indonesia when he was a child, his travel to Pakistan in the '80s when such travel was forbidden to American citizens and conflicting reports from Obama's family about his place of birth.

A partial listing and status update for several of the cases surrounding Obama's eligibility to serve as president is below:

Philip J. Berg, a Pennsylvania Democrat, demanded that the courts verify Obama's original birth certificate and other documents proving his American citizenship. Supreme Court conferences on the case and its motions are scheduled Jan. 9 and 16.


Leo Donofrio of New Jersey filed a lawsuit claiming Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court but denied a full hearing.

Cort Wrotnowski filed suit against Connecticut's secretary of state, making a similar argument to Donofrio. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court, but was denied a full hearing.

Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes headlines a list of people filing a suit in California, in a case handled by the United States Justice Foundation, that asks the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office. The case is pending, and lawyers are seeking the public's support.

Chicago attorney Andy Martin sought legal action requiring Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle to release Obama's vital statistics record. The case was dismissed by Hawaii Circuit Court Judge Bert Ayabe.

Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan sought a temporary restraining order to stop the Electoral College vote in North Carolina until Barack Obama's eligibility could be confirmed, alleging doubt about Obama's citizenship. His case was denied.

In Ohio, David M. Neal sued to force the secretary of state to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii. The case was denied.

In Washington state, Steven Marquis sued the secretary of state seeking a determination on Obama's citizenship. The case was denied.

In Georgia, Rev. Tom Terry asked the state Supreme Court to authenticate Obama's birth certificate. His request for an injuction against Georgia's secretary of state was denied by Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter.

California attorney Orly Taitz also has brought a complaint alleging Obama is not a "natural born" citizen and has written an open letter to the Supreme Court asking for the issue to be resolved.
Last month, WND reported the worries over a "constitutional crisis" that could be looming over the issue of Obama's citizenship.

"Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void," argues the Alan Keyes case pending in California, "Americans will suffer irreparable harm in that (a) usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal."

With such high stakes potentially at risk, WND earlier launched a letter campaign to contact Electoral College members and urge them to review the controversy.

That followed a campaign that sent more than 60,000 letters by overnight delivery to the U.S. Supreme Court when one case contesting Obama's eligibility for the Oval Office was pending.

A separate petition, already signed by more than 190,000 also is ongoing asking authorities in the election to seek proof Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the "natural-born American" clause in the Constitution.

WND senior reporter Jerome Corsi had gone to both Kenya and Hawaii prior to the election to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth. But his research and discoveries only raised more questions.

The biggest question was why, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists as his campaign has stated, Obama hasn't simply ordered it made available to settle the rumors. The image his campaign posted online has been rejected by critics since it is a "certification of live birth," not a birth certificate, and under Hawaii law at the time such certifications were given to parents of children born outside the state.

The governor's office in Hawaii said there is a valid certificate but rejected requests for access and left ambiguous its origin: Does the certificate on file with the Department of Health indicate a Hawaii birth or was it generated after the Obama family registered a Kenyan birth in Hawaii?

Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, has named two different Hawaii hospitals where Obama could have been born. There have been other allegations that Obama actually was born in Kenya during a time when his father was a British subject. At one point a Kenyan ambassador said Obama's birthplace in Kenya already was being recognized.

http://wnd.com/index...ew&pageId=84609

#2 sUper GeNius

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:26 AM

I'll laugh my ass off if in the end they tell Obama to take a hike. The problem is if they do who the hell would be our president?



That would be ugly. There would be rioting in every major US city. Nope. I wouldn't want to see that happen, and it won't.

#3 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:01 AM

I'll laugh my ass off if in the end they tell Obama to take a hike. The problem is if they do who the hell would be our president?



That would be ugly. There would be rioting in every major US city. Nope. I wouldn't want to see that happen, and it won't.


I doubt that would happen if.....

The Supreme Court, after a full examination Obama's birth certificate came out with a ruling saying, it turns out he does not meet the requirements of the constitution because bla bla bla, he was born in a foreign country. What American will still stand up and say that shouldn't matter and we should ignore the constitution?

The facts will have to be Cristal clear though. Most of this is Obama's fault for not allowing anyone to see his bc. The fact that he won't let anyone see it with no explanation, makes it look like he has something to hide.

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#4 niner

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:16 AM

Didn't the state of Hawaii come up with a birth certificate or something pretty late in the campaign? I think FM is right on this one; it would be ugly. I also think that it's right up there with the "secret Muslim" story. Now all those Mall Retailers that stocked up on burkhas expecting them to sell like hotcakes are probably going to go bankrupt. Oh well.

#5 Zenob

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:24 AM

Didn't the state of Hawaii come up with a birth certificate or something pretty late in the campaign? I think FM is right on this one; it would be ugly. I also think that it's right up there with the "secret Muslim" story. Now all those Mall Retailers that stocked up on burkhas expecting them to sell like hotcakes are probably going to go bankrupt. Oh well.


The birth certificate thing is old and dead. The only ones who haven't figured that out yet are the certifiable loons on the far right. That should be pretty obvious being as how this story's source is the Wingnut Daily.

#6 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:37 AM

As far as I know, no official bc has ever been produced. The story will not go away until the truth comes out. So far that hasn't happened. If it had I doubt the Supreme Court would be considering this now. Obama could put an end to this in one second. Just show the frickin bc.

#7 Zenob

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:58 AM

As far as I know, no official bc has ever been produced. The story will not go away until the truth comes out. So far that hasn't happened. If it had I doubt the Supreme Court would be considering this now. Obama could put an end to this in one second. Just show the frickin bc.


The entire thing started with an email hoax claiming he was a muslim and his middle name is Mohammed instead of Hussein. The hoax claimed he didn't have a valid BC. The Obama campaign put up a copy of his bc on their website back in June. After the right wing nutjobs got what they wanted(they were the ones screeching "why won't he show us his BC!?!?") they switched to "It must be fake!" because clearly if reality contradicts right wing fantasy then it must be reality that has a problem, not the right wing fantasy. To drive yet another nail in the coffin of this stupid bullshit, they compared his BC to other's issued at the same time and everything is consistent. It's a graphic example of the sheer amount of intellectual laziness/stupidity on the far right of the political system that their entire movement can so easily be fooled by a two bit email hoax. Snopes walks you through the whole thing:

Snopes debunking

Also, the guy who is behind the lawsuit against Obama saying he can't be president is named Phillip Berg and he's as bat shit crazy as they come. He runs a website called ObamasCrimes which caters to every bug fuck crazy conspiracy story to ever come down the pipe. You can read all about his nuttery here: nutjob

edit:
One little thing I left off, Berg is a 911 "truther". He's one of those nutjobs that thinks 911 was a government inside job. He filed a RICO lawsuit against the Bush administration after 911 claiming they were behind it all. He has a reputation for filing batshit crazy court cases.

Still think that lawsuit against Obama has a snowball's chance in hell? lol ;)

Edited by Zenob, 29 December 2008 - 05:07 AM.


#8 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:26 AM

It doesn't really matter who said what. The main fact is that Obama hasn't shown the bc, and it's kind of important that he does.

#9 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:45 AM

. After the right wing nutjobs got what they wanted(they were the ones screeching "why won't he show us his BC!?!?") they switched to "It must be fake!"


I don't think this is correct. I believe what they said is this is definitely a fake. Which is is easy to say because a picture posted on a Webb Site isn't going to satisfy a court of law. Obama will have to produce the original bc in court to kill this speculation. Why would he not do that? Instead what he has his people do is file injunctions to stop the lawsuit which costs a lot more than just showing the bc. It really doesn't make much sense unless there's something about the bc he doesn't want anyone to know about.

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#10 sUper GeNius

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 06:12 AM

http://origin.www.su...cket/08-570.htm

Can anyone explain what's happening here?

Edit: Berg lives 10 minutes from me, and just a few minutes from Biomol. Hmmm. Triangle of Intrigue.

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 29 December 2008 - 06:20 AM.


#11 sUper GeNius

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 06:31 AM

Uh oh. This is getting stranger yet.

http://maps.google.c...e...sa=N&tab=wl

Posted Image

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 29 December 2008 - 06:34 AM.


#12 Zenob

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:49 PM

It doesn't really matter who said what. The main fact is that Obama hasn't shown the bc, and it's kind of important that he does.


He provided it back in June.

#13 eternaltraveler

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:09 PM

If such a thing happened; the supreme court attempting to unseat the nations first democratically elected black president, the country would descend into chaos. There is no chance that will happen. Even if everything this wing nut lawyer says was true there still isn't much of case for saying obama is not natural born. And the state of hawaii has certified his birth there anyway...

Edited by elrond, 29 December 2008 - 06:01 PM.


#14 Zenob

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:21 PM

http://origin.www.su...cket/08-570.htm

Can anyone explain what's happening here?

Edit: Berg lives 10 minutes from me, and just a few minutes from Biomol. Hmmm. Triangle of Intrigue.


I thought it was rather self explanatory. An insane Hillary support with delusions of grandeur and a history of filing frivolous lawsuits is trying to stop Obama from being sworn in by filing a lawsuit that is based entirely off of an email hoax.

#15 niner

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:16 PM

Obama will have to produce the original bc in court to kill this speculation. Why would he not do that?

Maybe he's trying to play the Right Wing along in order to make them look crazy and further marginalize them.

#16 biknut

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:26 PM

It's seems like there's more than one bc on Webb sites but I think this one is from Obama's site.

http://fightthesmear...irthcertificate

#17 Mind

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:34 PM

I don't think he will be rejected as president, but it does cause me concern. Why do we have the natural born rule? The rule exists. Should it be enforced? How is it supposed to be enforced? I am not sure it has been properly tested.

Obama has promised openness and transparency, yet no one is allowed to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It is kind-of weird. Even the most ardent Obama fanboys must wonder why no one is allowed to see his birth certificate. If I ran for president, every media outlet would have access to my original birth certificate, if such access was desired. I have nothing to hide. I was born in Chippewa Falls Wisconsin. The birth certificate is at the county records office. Go take a look.

#18 Zenob

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:20 PM

I don't think he will be rejected as president, but it does cause me concern. Why do we have the natural born rule? The rule exists. Should it be enforced? How is it supposed to be enforced? I am not sure it has been properly tested.

Obama has promised openness and transparency, yet no one is allowed to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It is kind-of weird. Even the most ardent Obama fanboys must wonder why no one is allowed to see his birth certificate. If I ran for president, every media outlet would have access to my original birth certificate, if such access was desired. I have nothing to hide. I was born in Chippewa Falls Wisconsin. The birth certificate is at the county records office. Go take a look.


Why do people keep saying that when the Obama people provided his birth certificate back in June? This is all old ground that's been covered previously. That snopes link I posted contained all the relevant information. I believe it even had a scan of his birth certificate.

#19 Mind

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:52 PM

Yes, according the the snopes article and factcheck, one person from the Hawaiian government and one AP reporter verified the birth certificate is real and there are a few pictures. Still, I don't see the reason for the secrecy. It is just weird. Why not let a Worldnetdaily representative see the birth certificate, or any of the people who are suing over this issue. All the stonewalling seems useless and counterproductive.

#20 niner

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:01 PM

Yes, according the the snopes article and factcheck, one person from the Hawaiian government and one AP reporter verified the birth certificate is real and there are a few pictures. Still, I don't see the reason for the secrecy. It is just weird. Why not let a Worldnetdaily representative see the birth certificate, or any of the people who are suing over this issue. All the stonewalling seems useless and counterproductive.

It's a matter of time wastage. How many reporters should get to see it? Who pays for the trouble? Do people think that the Hawaiian government person and the AP reporter were in cahoots in some kind of conspiratorial fraud? As I said above, exposing the accusers as being kind of crazy and paranoid is a reasonable excuse for the "secrecy", if just not wanting to be bothered isn't enough.

#21 Mind

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:20 PM

How many reporters should get to see it? Who pays for the trouble?


Whoever wants to see the certificate and is willing to fly to Hawaii on their own dime. Seems simple enough to me. It only takes 5 minutes for a government representative to lead an entourage to see the certificate. It just seems so silly to put up so many barriers, that is unless as you suggest, Obama is trying to scheme and manipulate certain factions - similar to releasing an internal investigation of contacts with the Illinois governor stating "we are all innocent" just 36 hours before Christmas - then he and his team are just being regular Washington politicians/insiders...not exactly the "change" and "openness" I was expecting or hoping for.

#22 jackinbox

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:50 AM

How many reporters should get to see it? Who pays for the trouble?


Whoever wants to see the certificate and is willing to fly to Hawaii on their own dime. Seems simple enough to me. It only takes 5 minutes for a government representative to lead an entourage to see the certificate. It just seems so silly to put up so many barriers, that is unless as you suggest, Obama is trying to scheme and manipulate certain factions - similar to releasing an internal investigation of contacts with the Illinois governor stating "we are all innocent" just 36 hours before Christmas - then he and his team are just being regular Washington politicians/insiders...not exactly the "change" and "openness" I was expecting or hoping for.


Once someone commit to a conspiracy theory there is no fair amount of information that will make him change his mind. The person is in a self-persuasion process. Pictures of the birth certificate are available on internet but hey, it's easy to photoshop. Hawai officials confirm the authenticity of the certificate but you know, it's so easy to bribe an official. They see the certificate and touch it but hey, anything can be counterfeit those days. There is no point giving those lunatics any credit.

http://www.wnd.com/i...ew&pageId=79174

Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or "registrant" according to the legal description from the governor's office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.

WND also found on microfilm in the Honolulu downtown public library a notice published under the "Births, Marriages, Deaths" section of the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser for August 13, 1961, on page B-6, noting: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack II Obama. 6085 Kalanianaole-Hwy, son, Aug. 4."

Nice article on the matter:
http://www.salon.com...th_certificate/

Edited by jackinbox, 30 December 2008 - 12:51 AM.


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#23 sUper GeNius

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:04 AM

How many reporters should get to see it? Who pays for the trouble?


Whoever wants to see the certificate and is willing to fly to Hawaii on their own dime. Seems simple enough to me. It only takes 5 minutes for a government representative to lead an entourage to see the certificate. It just seems so silly to put up so many barriers, that is unless as you suggest, Obama is trying to scheme and manipulate certain factions - similar to releasing an internal investigation of contacts with the Illinois governor stating "we are all innocent" just 36 hours before Christmas - then he and his team are just being regular Washington politicians/insiders...not exactly the "change" and "openness" I was expecting or hoping for.


I think I read that, in Hawaii, birth certificates are not open to the public. Obama would have to release it in some way.

edit: I see someone quoted the law on this.

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 30 December 2008 - 01:06 AM.


#24 Zenob

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:08 AM

Yes, according the the snopes article and factcheck, one person from the Hawaiian government and one AP reporter verified the birth certificate is real and there are a few pictures. Still, I don't see the reason for the secrecy. It is just weird. Why not let a Worldnetdaily representative see the birth certificate, or any of the people who are suing over this issue. All the stonewalling seems useless and counterproductive.


Just how much foolishness should be tolerated to placate a nutjob or group of nutjobs? Seriously, I want to know.

Should we stick the flat earthers on the space shuttle one at a time and blast them into space just so they don't have to take the word of all those dubious astronauts? Should we ban all vaccines and face the inevitable tidal wave of preventable diseases just so the anti-vaxxers can see that it has zero impact on autism rates? The entire "why not let X see it" thing is just bullshit and all the righties tossing it around know it. For one thing, raise your hand if you are even qualified to tell a fake apart from an authentic BC. How many of the righties here have ever even seen a Hawaiian BC before? You could hand his original BC to any of the people that keep saying they just HAVE to see it and they'd be completely incapable of telling it apart from a fake one(that goes for those crack journalists at the wingnutdaily too). Plus, there is ZERO reason to think that there is anything wrong with it. It's a copy of his real birth certificate. The hospital has verified it. It's been compared to other certificates from the same time and they match. Yet the more evidence they see, the more convinced the right wingers get that there just HAS to be SOMETHING wrong. It's a bad case of willful ignorance. They willfully ignore ANYTHING that contradicts what they WANT to believe.

I have zero reason to think that the money in my wallet right now is fake, but going by this twisted right wing logic I should march on down to the bank and DEMAND that they prove to ME that it's not fake. When they ask me why I think that it's fake, I'll just scream in their faces, "What are you trying to hide?!?"

#25 sUper GeNius

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:15 AM

Yes, according the the snopes article and factcheck, one person from the Hawaiian government and one AP reporter verified the birth certificate is real and there are a few pictures. Still, I don't see the reason for the secrecy. It is just weird. Why not let a Worldnetdaily representative see the birth certificate, or any of the people who are suing over this issue. All the stonewalling seems useless and counterproductive.



I agree. It would seem easy enough to produce unequivocal evidence. Maybe Obama figures that if *Scalia* comes to the conclusion that the suit is baseless, that would be the most effective way to bury the conspiracy theory. Perhaps nothing short of the conservative-legal-beagle that is Scalia is necessary.

Can you imagine though if it is discovered that he WAS born in Kenya? Maybe Bush would need to stay in office until the Supreme Court decided on the constitutional mess. ;)

#26 sUper GeNius

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:19 AM

Yet the more evidence they see, the more convinced the right wingers get that there just HAS to be SOMETHING wrong.


It's quite ridiculous of you to lump in all 'right wingers.' I'm sure there's a nutty left-winger or two (or three) that doesn't want to see him take the oath.

#27 sUper GeNius

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:28 AM

Mind wrote:

I don't think he will be rejected as president, but it does cause me concern. Why do we have the natural born rule? The rule exists. Should it be enforced? How is it supposed to be enforced? I am not sure it has been properly tested.


Should it be enforced? You're joking, right? It's very clearly written in the constitution, is it not?

There was some thought that McCain would not be considered a natural born citizen as well, as he was born in Panama. I guess those left-wingers had something in reserve just in case.

Remember the radical left-wingers' (probably Move-on lifetime members,) attempt to prevent Cheney from running for VP? They were attempting to prove that he was in fact a resident of Texas. The constitution states that the two must have different states of residency. Those lefties...

#28 Zenob

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:37 AM

Yet the more evidence they see, the more convinced the right wingers get that there just HAS to be SOMETHING wrong.


It's quite ridiculous of you to lump in all 'right wingers.' I'm sure there's a nutty left-winger or two (or three) that doesn't want to see him take the oath.


You seem to have missed the part where I pointed out that the guy behind the lawsuit is an insane Hillary supporter. As for "lumping", it's not really lumping when 99% of the people taking a certain position belong to the same group. I'm not going to parse my language just for that last 1%.

#29 biknut

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:40 AM

Hawai officials confirm the authenticity of the certificate but you know, it's so easy to bribe an official.


What certificate would that be? The one on Obama's Webb site? I've never seen anywhere that an official has confirmed anything except they have a bc of some sort in Hawai. I don't think they've disclosed any details about it.

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#30 biknut

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 05:01 AM

Yes, according the the snopes article and factcheck, one person from the Hawaiian government and one AP reporter verified the birth certificate is real and there are a few pictures. Still, I don't see the reason for the secrecy. It is just weird. Why not let a Worldnetdaily representative see the birth certificate, or any of the people who are suing over this issue. All the stonewalling seems useless and counterproductive.


Just how much foolishness should be tolerated to placate a nutjob or group of nutjobs? Seriously, I want to know.

Should we stick the flat earthers on the space shuttle one at a time and blast them into space just so they don't have to take the word of all those dubious astronauts? Should we ban all vaccines and face the inevitable tidal wave of preventable diseases just so the anti-vaxxers can see that it has zero impact on autism rates? The entire "why not let X see it" thing is just bullshit and all the righties tossing it around know it. For one thing, raise your hand if you are even qualified to tell a fake apart from an authentic BC. How many of the righties here have ever even seen a Hawaiian BC before? You could hand his original BC to any of the people that keep saying they just HAVE to see it and they'd be completely incapable of telling it apart from a fake one(that goes for those crack journalists at the wingnutdaily too). Plus, there is ZERO reason to think that there is anything wrong with it. It's a copy of his real birth certificate. The hospital has verified it. It's been compared to other certificates from the same time and they match. Yet the more evidence they see, the more convinced the right wingers get that there just HAS to be SOMETHING wrong. It's a bad case of willful ignorance. They willfully ignore ANYTHING that contradicts what they WANT to believe.

I have zero reason to think that the money in my wallet right now is fake, but going by this twisted right wing logic I should march on down to the bank and DEMAND that they prove to ME that it's not fake. When they ask me why I think that it's fake, I'll just scream in their faces, "What are you trying to hide?!?"


I don't think this is a right wing or left wing issue. It's just a matter of law.




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