50 replies to this topic

[brokenportal]

I vote that the chair veto the $8,000 private cryonics fund vote or the majority of the directors reschedule the vote, as I understand they can with in 30 days.

• Section 6 -- Anti-Takeover Clause
If the current board reaches the decision that any section of Article II of this Constitution would be compromised by the possible outcome of any vote, it may, by directorial vote halt and reschedule the vote for no less than thirty (30) days.

Question BrokenPortal, what section of Article II of our Constitution would be compromised by the outcome of the vote you seek to overturn?

I thought that the mission statement outlined in article too had been changed to "Advocacy and Research for Unlimited Lifespans" and I thought that that implied for the world as a whole, but your right. I can see that I am wrong about that. I have conceded my efforts to recast the vote. I am clearly not any sort of authority on constitutional workings and I can see that now.

• Section 7 -- Veto
The Chair may, by public declaration, halt and reschedule any vote for no more than thirty (30) days.

What s your justification for asking that a 24 yes, 1 no, 1 abstain vote be halted and rescheduled?

I felt that there wasnt enough time for all the members to weigh the pros and cons and enter discussion about this. I was afraid to discuss this during the vote because I didnt want to be wrong and look like a jerk, but the more I thought about it the more I realized that a loan would probably be best. I should have discussed it during the vote though. That was my fault. I concede that I was wrong about rescheduling it and I no longer pursue it.

I ask that they reschedule the gift vote to thefirstimmortal as a loan

BrokenPortal, I could not and would not accept a loan, as you well know I have rejected loan offers in the past because a loan is something carries with it the expectation that the money will be paid back. I can’t make such a claim having terminal cancer.
More to follow...

That is very true and I would not expect you to pay back the loan at all, I would not expect you to make efforts to help with the fund raiser at this time either. I left that up to the members who support a cryonics fund, which I do, but just not out of imminst money because I was afraid that it would cause people who may want to invest in imminst to not want to. I thought it was a fair solution. The fund raiser already has a total of $1,100 pledged to it. $100 from myself, and $1,000 from Jimmy. Even if nobody else steps in, I will continue working to raise the full $8,000 for the imminst members cryo fund and more.

[thefirstimmortal]

BrokenPortal,
I just hit your following link.

Please give to this facebook fund raiser for Immortality Institute member cryonics funding.

In that link there appears to be a fundraiser, in bold print you write “Immortality Institute members cryonics fund.”

This fundraiser has all the appearance of an officially sanctioned fund raiser by the Immortality Institute. Did you at any time ask or request the use of the coporate name “Immortaslity Institute” for a fund raiser you personally set up without the consent of Immortality Institute?

Do you think it is OK for you to be setting up a fundraiser under the name “Immortality Institute” without the Institutes consent?

You cite 3 positions as follows:


1. The Institutes main funding should be for the specific furtherment of the cause.
2. The institutes main funds are extremely valuable, using them for anything but the cause puts the world at risk.
3. The health of our fellow members is very important to us, just not as much as the welfare of the world.


The positions you advance are your personal opinions are they not?

There are those who believe that the funds are currently being used correctly and will further advance the cause. And I don’t believe that anyone, or at least many would believe the inflamatory statement that the current use of the 8k will put the world at risk. But at any rate, do you believe that it is up to you to be the sole judge representative of the Immortality Institute? These appear to be the official positions of the Inastitute as opposed to your own personal opinions.

Am I the only one who is deeply troubled that Brokenportal is using Immortality Institutes name and corporate logo for a seeming official sanctioned fundraising event?

[thefirstimmortal]

The fund raiser already has a total of $1,100 pledged to it. $100 from myself, and $1,000 from Jimmy. Even if nobody else steps in, I will continue working to raise the full $8,000 for the imminst members cryo fund and more.

Your fundraiser currently has zero dollars in it, and all of your writings here are financial distortions. You fail to acknowledge that it is a matching fund that will produce $16,000, so if people donated to your fund that wouldn’t close the gap. Also, if no one donates a dollar, the institute is out zero dollars.

[thefirstimmortal]

Otherwise if say a team of us raise $8,000 for imminsts main fund then we have pretty much just used all that effort to raise money for this cryonics fund against our will.

Another verbal distortion Brokenportal, the vote having been 24 yes, 1 no and 1 abstain, to be accurate you should have written “against my will” and not “against our will”. After all, who are the “our” in your equation?

The imminst constitution states, and for good reason that:

• Section 1 -- Expenses
1. Expenses may only be incurred by a Director for the purpose of furthering the ImmInst mission.

I thought this expense was incurred by the members, but assuming this provision applies, how does the fund raiser not further the ImmInst mission?

[thefirstimmortal]

BrokenPortal, you wrote;

The imminst constitution states, and for good reason that:

• Section 1 -- Expenses
1. Expenses may only be incurred by a Director for the purpose of furthering the ImmInst mission.

And the imminst mission states that we support advocacy and research for unlimited life spans. We all know that this means that we support breakthroughs that will benefit the world.

The ImmInst mission states the following BrokenPortal, “ImmInst's mission is to to conquer the blight of involuntary death.” Well BrokenPortal, I’m about to suffer a death and I assure you that it is not voluntary. I could hardly imagine a fundraising effort that would in fact be more consistent with the core mission of this Institute than one that is currently on the table.

I am also very troubled by your selective reading of our Constitution, so just to round out your selective reading, I’m going to add the parts you oh so convienently left out.

Under Article II. -- Mission & Function
· Section 2 -- Umbrella Organization
ImmInst shall function as an umbrella organization to help its members succeed in working towards the possibility of human physical immortality.

· Section 4 -- Nonprofit Educational & Charitable Organization
ImmInst is organized exclusively for charitable, educational, and scientific purposes as may qualify it as exempt from federal income tax under applicable sections of the Internal Revenue Code (1986)...

I couldn’t help notice that you convienently left out the fact that we are organized for “charitable” purposes.

[brokenportal]

BrokenPortal,
I just hit your following link.

Please give to this facebook fund raiser for Immortality Institute member cryonics funding.

In that link there appears to be a fundraiser, in bold print you write “Immortality Institute members cryonics fund.”

This fundraiser has all the appearance of an officially sanctioned fund raiser by the Immortality Institute. Did you at any time ask or request the use of the coporate name “Immortaslity Institute” for a fund raiser you personally set up without the consent of Immortality Institute?

Do you think it is OK for you to be setting up a fundraiser under the name “Immortality Institute” without the Institutes consent?

You cite 3 positions as follows:


1. The Institutes main funding should be for the specific furtherment of the cause.
2. The institutes main funds are extremely valuable, using them for anything but the cause puts the world at risk.
3. The health of our fellow members is very important to us, just not as much as the welfare of the world.


The positions you advance are your personal opinions are they not?

There are those who believe that the funds are currently being used correctly and will further advance the cause. And I don’t believe that anyone, or at least many would believe the inflamatory statement that the current use of the 8k will put the world at risk. But at any rate, do you believe that it is up to you to be the sole judge representative of the Immortality Institute? These appear to be the official positions of the Inastitute as opposed to your own personal opinions.

Am I the only one who is deeply troubled that Brokenportal is using Immortality Institutes name and corporate logo for a seeming official sanctioned fundraising event?

This is indeed true. I set this up with out consent. At the time I did not think much about that, but upon reflection I can see that was wrong. I should have gone through a vote and asked the directors of this cause exactly what the immortality institute stands for in this regard. I thought my opinions were an fairly accurate reflection of imminst but I can see now that I was wrong, and Im sorry that Ive done this. You all probably think I should take the Institute name off of this right away, if so then let me know and I will do it right away.

I dont care if this takes me 3 months, Im going to raise this money. Im going to put almost everything else aside until I get it.

[brokenportal]

Otherwise if say a team of us raise $8,000 for imminsts main fund then we have pretty much just used all that effort to raise money for this cryonics fund against our will.

Another verbal distortion Brokenportal, the vote having been 24 yes, 1 no and 1 abstain, to be accurate you should have written “against my will” and not “against our will”. After all, who are the “our” in your equation?

The imminst constitution states, and for good reason that:

• Section 1 -- Expenses
1. Expenses may only be incurred by a Director for the purpose of furthering the ImmInst mission.

I thought this expense was incurred by the members, but assuming this provision applies, how does the fund raiser not further the ImmInst mission?

Your right, there is no "our" in the consensus. It is "me" and that was a distortion. The consensus is clearly in agreement with this fund.

As for "how does it not further the imminst mission?" Ive been thinking about it and I can see my over site. I can see that it clearly furthers imminsts mission of Advocacy and Research for Unlimited Lifespans.

[thefirstimmortal]

Brokenportal, you wrote;

A private cryonics fund isnt a breakthrough or for the world.

Nor are the thousands that are spent on Scholarships, or the various other ways that this organization spends it’s money. What was your point?

This will most certainly discourage future investors if it hasn’t already. So this is effectively much more than an $8,000 dollar expense. I was considering asking for a refund on my lifetime membership, and suspire and iamrobot have both concurred to the same effect. That’s proof enough right there.

Saying that this is more than an 8,000 dollar expenses is speculative at best. It blatantly ignores the fact that 24 people thought it was a good idea, and for all we know this may just as easily help bring in money in the future.

[brokenportal]

BrokenPortal, you wrote;

The imminst constitution states, and for good reason that:

• Section 1 -- Expenses
1. Expenses may only be incurred by a Director for the purpose of furthering the ImmInst mission.

And the imminst mission states that we support advocacy and research for unlimited life spans. We all know that this means that we support breakthroughs that will benefit the world.

The ImmInst mission states the following BrokenPortal, “ImmInst's mission is to to conquer the blight of involuntary death.” Well BrokenPortal, I’m about to suffer a death and I assure you that it is not voluntary. I could hardly imagine a fundraising effort that would in fact be more consistent with the core mission of this Institute than one that is currently on the table.

I am also very troubled by your selective reading of our Constitution, so just to round out your selective reading, I’m going to add the parts you oh so convienently left out.

Under Article II. -- Mission & Function
· Section 2 -- Umbrella Organization
ImmInst shall function as an umbrella organization to help its members succeed in working towards the possibility of human physical immortality.

· Section 4 -- Nonprofit Educational & Charitable Organization
ImmInst is organized exclusively for charitable, educational, and scientific purposes as may qualify it as exempt from federal income tax under applicable sections of the Internal Revenue Code (1986)...

I couldn’t help notice that you convienently left out the fact that we are organized for “charitable” purposes.

You are indeed one of the 150,000 that die every day. You certainly deserve it just as much as any of them, or any of our members, especially since your need is one of urgency. I agree.

Imminst is indeed set up as a charity. Im actually kind of "troubled" by my selective reading of the consititution myself. You are right those are parts of this that should have been included.

[brokenportal]

Brokenportal, you wrote;

A private cryonics fund isnt a breakthrough or for the world.

Nor are the thousands that are spent on Scholarships, or the various other ways that this organization spends it’s money. What was your point?

This will most certainly discourage future investors if it hasn’t already. So this is effectively much more than an $8,000 dollar expense. I was considering asking for a refund on my lifetime membership, and suspire and iamrobot have both concurred to the same effect. That’s proof enough right there.

Saying that this is more than an 8,000 dollar expenses is speculative at best. It blatantly ignores the fact that 24 people thought it was a good idea, and for all we know this may just as easily help bring in money in the future.

My perspective was askew, It was speculative. Im not sure what I was thinking. I have changed my position on this.

[thefirstimmortal]

That's all I got in me right now. Actually, this is the only posting I've done all day, I've been chemo sick all day, but I said I would begin a response to this "Kill Bill" bill before the weekend was out. I go thru this and your other threads if I am well enough to tomorrow.

I'm outta here.

Attached Files

•  24.gif   272bytes   0 downloads

[thefirstimmortal]

That's all I got in me right now. Actually, this is the only posting I've done all day, I've been chemo sick all day, but I said I would begin a response to this "Kill Bill" bill before the weekend was out. I go thru this and your other threads if I am well enough to tomorrow.

I'm outta here.

[brokenportal]

Sorry man, didnt mean to ruffle you any if I did. Your right about the consensus. They all support this, they have said it, and said it again, and I didnt see it, but I do now.

[thefirstimmortal]

I also want to ask (not sure where to do this) that the consitution be amended so that the following part of the consitution be made more specific.

Article VI. -- Budget

Section 1 -- Expenses

Expenses may only be incurred by a Director for the purpose of furthering the ImmInst mission.

I also want to ask that the cryonics fund raiser be made permanent and that laws be written into the Imminst constitution regarding it, namely that the funds are be given out by a membership vote.

I would caution everyone to rethink writing specifics into the Constitution on the matter of fundraisers as they apply to cryonics. For the same reasons bad cases make bad laws.

However, I do support the general meme that any large expense should be cleared and voted on by the membership, I would join you in this should you want that written into the Constittion.

[thefirstimmortal]

I cannot imagine future potential contributors thinking about giving say, $25,000 to imminst. I cant imagine why they wouldnt decide against it because they are skeptical about whether or not the institute will give it out to things like private cryonics funds. I know this is considered a "one time thing", but how is that going to weigh in the talk and rumors about this on the minds of those future contributors? If youve given then please weigh in.

It would appear that the only one who had a change in heart was Josh, otherwise everyone seems happy with their choice. If you voted yes and still support this, how about weighing in.

Somebody mentioned that imminsts budget is just sitting around. There are plenty of projects that need that money. It could go to mfuri, mf, imminst forum upgrades, advertising, could by a bunch of copies of ending aging, put out another book, another documentary, a potential agi uri, or any of the dozens of projects that have been collected from members around imminst and compiled here:

So, where does saving a member from an involuntary death rate on this list? Granted, it may be self-serving, I am after all the one who is benefiting from this vote, but I sure would like to think that if the situation was reversed and someone else was doing the dying part I would be voting yes to the use over the money. I’m pretty confident that I would save someone’s life before I voted to buy a bunch of copies of “end aging”. Perhaps we just have differing values.

That fund is going to be gone in no time and we are going to need more to get more science going and to get more exposure out.

Really, how fast is that fund going to be gone? For all you know, we may only get $500 dollars a month, and our overall budget may increase while the fundraiser goes on. I would be rather surprised (happily so) to see 1.000 in contributions come in for 8 straight months. What evidence do you have to support your claim that the “fund is going to be gone in no time.”

That $8,000 can help save the world.

How? What is your plan for saving the world on $8,000?

Im almost at a loss as to how we all can help fully right this boat, but I think we can. We can start by voting no on using $8,000 of imminst war chest funds, and by contributing instead to this Imminst members cryonics fund raiser that we established in face book and linked here.

Who is the we in “Imminst members cryonics fund raiser that we established in face book.”

[thefirstimmortal]

For the record Brokenportal, this vote started out as a Director vote to be decided by the leaders only. That vote was stopped at my request because I too felt that 8,000 dollars was a very large amount of the Imminst budget. 12% in fact if memory serves me correctly. My feeling was that the leaders had no buisiness spending that kind of money, it is the members money after all. The vote was changed to a members vote at my request and left up to the members to decide. If you want to know what they think of the expenditure, just go back and see how they voted. It speaks for itself.

Thats right, now that you mention it I do remember you writing that somewhere else, which makes this even more confusing.

What is it that you don't understand Eric? The vote was essentially all but passed by the Directorial vote. I asked myself, if this were someone else, would I support the vote and the answer was no. Not no because I thought the use of the money was improper, I just thought that the members ought to decide as opposed to directors only. I requested that it be put to a member vote, even at the risk that the assured vote could have been rejected. Do you get it now, or do you need further clarification?

The vote is closed and passed but if anybody wants to help, this facebook Imminst member cryonics fundraiser will remain. We can put whatever we get up to $8,000 back into the imminst fund, and if we get more than that and this fundraiser gains support and is successful then we will have a future reserve for such situations too.

Please do not give to this fund if you are trying to save my life. You're money will be matched in the "official" Imminst cryonics fund, it will not be matched in BrokenPortals fund.

[thefirstimmortal]

When I give money, it's for a cause, not for an individual. Even when the money seems to be for an individual -- say, Obama -- the money is for the cause or causes the person can influence.

It's sad as hell that thefirstimmortal is dying. It f*cking disturbs me and not because I imagine myself in his place. I'm sorry but I'm not giving money to him or to any other individual or to any institute that donates a large portion of its money to an individual. Where do the gifts to individuals end? Does that gift bring us any closer to solving the core problem?

Just so you know Imarobot, I did not take any of your comments personally, I assume that you would have made them regardless of "who" was doing the dying. Also, you should know that in addition to rquesting the vote be changed I aslo requested that it be opened up for Registered Users to comment on. I have always felt that there are many valuable registered users here who's input is important. Also, I am of the belief that it is the Registered Users who will mot likely become the next paying members, so I think we should treat them like gold, not second class citizens.

If giving a member funds brought media attention, new people, and more money or effort to be applied toward research, then a gift to the individual makes sense. But I don't see this.

Time will Tell.

[thefirstimmortal]

I'm a geek, but I want to include the masses. When they become interested in immortality, good things will start happening.

And cryogenics? The masses haven't gotten interested in cryogenics. They're not going to. It's too morbid. It's a better casket. It's defeatist. Immortality is about living. That should be the focus.

To borrow some word from the great Sual Kent,
I don't give a hoot about "respectability", except to the extent that I believe it will help me to survive. I don't know anyone in cryonics who is more interested in respectability than survival. Does anyone?

[thefirstimmortal]

When I give money, it's for a cause, not for an individual. Even when the money seems to be for an individual -- say, Obama -- the money is for the cause or causes the person can influence.

It's sad as hell that thefirstimmortal is dying. It f*cking disturbs me and not because I imagine myself in his place. I'm sorry but I'm not giving money to him or to any other individual or to any institute that donates a large portion of its money to an individual. Where do the gifts to individuals end? Does that gift bring us any closer to solving the core problem?

Just so you know Imarobot, I did not take any of your comments personally, I assume that you would have made them regardless of "who" was doing the dying. Also, you should know that in addition to rquesting the vote be changed I aslo requested that it be opened up for Registered Users to comment on. I have always felt that there are many valuable registered users here who's input is important. Also, I am of the belief that it is the Registered Users who will mot likely become the next paying members, so I think we should treat them like gold, not second class citizens.

If giving a member funds brought media attention, new people, and more money or effort to be applied toward research, then a gift to the individual makes sense. But I don't see this.

Time will Tell.

For the record I found my direct quote on the matter.

"I can't see anything about this motion that I would oppose. I am in total agreement that the motion should be moved to the membership area, or really for that matter it really should be opened up for everyone to see, even registered users who may one day be members. How you currently spend money may make a difference to a registered user who may be considering a paid membership, better get their input also.

Time may be short, but the appropriate thing to do is to extend the time for review."

[thefirstimmortal]

A few more of my quotes on the matter.

I speak on behalf of myself, I don't know what members or registered user think about this, and no one will know unless they are given an opportunity to speak.

and

If you start the fund, what's the sense of moving it to membership after? The decision having been made by leadership and jammed down the membership throat without giving them any voice to dissent? You are spending their money, at the very least you need to give them some say in the matter.

[thefirstimmortal]

A correction, I wrote that the vote passed 24 yes 1 no and 1 abstian. That is incorrct, the vote is listed below.

Motion is now closed

Motion passes
Yes=22
No=1
Abstain=1