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F@H Game


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8 replies to this topic

#1 maestro949

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 09:51 PM


I've rambled quite a bit over the past years about trying to get more lay or otherwise skilled people contributing to science directly or indirectly. F@H has been a great example of getting a large number of people donating their computing cycles to science. Additional incentives to do so would only further the success of this low level biology research that will eventually pay significant dividends towards longevity research. An ImmInst initiated project (grassroots volunteer effort more likely, akin to the F@H prize) could serve this purpose as well as bring more attention (which leads to more credibility, volunteers, funding, etc) to the organization and meme.

One idea that has been floated by myself and others (both here and elsewhere) has been the creation of games that benefit science. A folding game has been created by David Baker's protein folding group but it's success has been limited thus far. I suspect that this limited success is due mostly to the fact that it's less a game and more or less just a tedious challenge of guesswork, and a rather difficult one at that. Essentially, it just feels like work. My idea is to build something a bit more enjoyable that leverage the existing base of protein folders and see if we can extend through viral means into a larger community of gamers and even the general public.

I've been working with a small group of people brainstorming this concept, everything from gameplay, genre, software development, funding, recruitment, timing, marketing, etc but didn't really want to bring it forth here until I was confident that it had the potential to evolve from drawing board to prototype.

So here's the idea:

* The game would be a "slow roll" multiplayer game where users can log in via a website and use their folding points as credits towards gameplay. As the credits come in (are distributed via Stanford's points server), they are used as the fuel that allows the player to engage in gameplay, e.g. building units, structures, etc. that advance gameplay.

* Given the meme, some futuristic genres have been discussed and one based on building offensive and defensive structures and units to protect and develop your own little galactic utopian outpost has been used during the straw man discussions.

* To play, users sign in and provide their folding team and user name to set up an account. Folding points would be translated into a trickle over the next 3 hours so as hours and days passed, users could log in and put those credits to work turning their outpost into an empire. (insert star wars music here)

* A combat system would exist for outposts to attack and defend. Credits and captured units would be the booty for successful raids of the other outposts within the game.

* The details of the units, structures and combat system are out of scope for this discussion but quite a bit of thought and evaluation of existing game-types has been put into the effort. Without an enjoyable and balanced gaming experience, multi-player games rarely go viral.

* A recruitment bonus would exist for inviting new players (and thus extending the contributing folder base, the primary goal of such an effort).

* Initially, Stanford Folding could serve as the credit input but other/future bioinformatics efforts could also be used as points-to-credit sources. Even non distributed computing divide-and-conquor-style-projects such as those done by Amazon's Mechanical Turk could be added, perhaps directly to the game interface itself.

So this is just to get the idea out there for discussion. Thoughts, ideas, issues, etc. Provide them here in this thread.

If you're interested in getting involved as a developer, playtester or financial contributor we'll likely be recruiting those in the coming months as well though PM me if you have 7-digit donations to make ASAP ;)... otherwise just ponder and discuss the pros and cons of such an effort.

Edited by maestro949, 10 January 2009 - 10:11 PM.


#2 brokenportal

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:12 PM

This sounds like an awsome and lucrative idea on many levels. Besides helping fah it would help gain exposure if it could become some kind of popular thing.

If you want then I can plug it into the LEEEP list and add it to the fah team recruit ment project to help you gain exposure and more potential help for it.

I was also thinking of another idea for spreading the fah team, I was walking in to subway yesterday and noticed a new gaming store next to it so I walked in to contemplate fah, and I dont know how this didnt occur to me before, but Im going to put together a proposal and propose it to the owners of stores like that to try to work something out where I give him like, 50 dollars to put a $2.00 off any playstation 3 rental coupon on the games or something like that, if the person signs up for the tlm fah team. What I have to do now is get the money together and work out a way to figure out how we can prove that that player actually did join. Im thinking we may have to get them to print off a page showing that they signed up for the team under a name we give them like, promo 1-50 or something like that. Otherwise they could just say that they are any new member they see in the list that they want.

Anyways, let me know, yours is an even better idea.

#3 maestro949

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 02:33 PM

Other than encourage feedback, I wouldn't do anything yet. I just want to float the idea to gauge the appetite for such a project here @ ImmInst. If there isn't any, I'll look for a better home for it.

#4 dnamechanic

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:23 PM

...the creation of games that benefit science.


Maestro, it is good that you are thinking of such.

The demand for games-related processing power has driven modern computer development.

Few people, it seems, can continuously exert an effort without a particular type of feedback that is often called 'fun'.

Anything that could divert some of the huge resources of 'Gamers' to F@H, or other DC projects, could accelerate research.

#5 Heliotrope

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 05:14 AM

game on

#6 maestro949

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:21 PM

Update:

This project has been put on hold.

After playtesting 3 games that we were thinking of using as models (Knighthood, Mobwars and Metropolis), we just didn't feel this game type had the long-term playability that would be needed to bring in and keep new folders. If anyone knows of a game concept that might work for the point structure mentioned above, feel free to chime in...

#7 RighteousReason

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:54 PM

I've rambled quite a bit over the past years about trying to get more lay or otherwise skilled people contributing to science directly or indirectly. F@H has been a great example of getting a large number of people donating their computing cycles to science. Additional incentives to do so would only further the success of this low level biology research that will eventually pay significant dividends towards longevity research. An ImmInst initiated project (grassroots volunteer effort more likely, akin to the F@H prize) could serve this purpose as well as bring more attention (which leads to more credibility, volunteers, funding, etc) to the organization and meme.

One idea that has been floated by myself and others (both here and elsewhere) has been the creation of games that benefit science. A folding game has been created by David Baker's protein folding group but it's success has been limited thus far. I suspect that this limited success is due mostly to the fact that it's less a game and more or less just a tedious challenge of guesswork, and a rather difficult one at that. Essentially, it just feels like work. My idea is to build something a bit more enjoyable that leverage the existing base of protein folders and see if we can extend through viral means into a larger community of gamers and even the general public.

I've been working with a small group of people brainstorming this concept, everything from gameplay, genre, software development, funding, recruitment, timing, marketing, etc but didn't really want to bring it forth here until I was confident that it had the potential to evolve from drawing board to prototype.

So here's the idea:

* The game would be a "slow roll" multiplayer game where users can log in via a website and use their folding points as credits towards gameplay. As the credits come in (are distributed via Stanford's points server), they are used as the fuel that allows the player to engage in gameplay, e.g. building units, structures, etc. that advance gameplay.

* Given the meme, some futuristic genres have been discussed and one based on building offensive and defensive structures and units to protect and develop your own little galactic utopian outpost has been used during the straw man discussions.

* To play, users sign in and provide their folding team and user name to set up an account. Folding points would be translated into a trickle over the next 3 hours so as hours and days passed, users could log in and put those credits to work turning their outpost into an empire. (insert star wars music here)

* A combat system would exist for outposts to attack and defend. Credits and captured units would be the booty for successful raids of the other outposts within the game.

* The details of the units, structures and combat system are out of scope for this discussion but quite a bit of thought and evaluation of existing game-types has been put into the effort. Without an enjoyable and balanced gaming experience, multi-player games rarely go viral.

* A recruitment bonus would exist for inviting new players (and thus extending the contributing folder base, the primary goal of such an effort).

* Initially, Stanford Folding could serve as the credit input but other/future bioinformatics efforts could also be used as points-to-credit sources. Even non distributed computing divide-and-conquor-style-projects such as those done by Amazon's Mechanical Turk could be added, perhaps directly to the game interface itself.

So this is just to get the idea out there for discussion. Thoughts, ideas, issues, etc. Provide them here in this thread.

If you're interested in getting involved as a developer, playtester or financial contributor we'll likely be recruiting those in the coming months as well though PM me if you have 7-digit donations to make ASAP ;)... otherwise just ponder and discuss the pros and cons of such an effort.


I know exactly what kind of game you need to make.

http://utopia.swirve.com/

I play this all the time. It's got a little bit of a learning curve, but its incredibly fun once you understand what is going on. You only have to log in once a day at least, two or three is usually optimal. It is very similar to what you described, but with a medieval setting.

I think building another game of this genre would be pretty exciting. I'm a software developer so I have the skills to potentially help out. I want to sleep on the concept a little bit, and I'd like to chat with you about it sometime.

#8 brokenportal

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:49 PM

I just stumbled upon this again. Rwac what do you think of this and how we might be able to work it in to the games project?

#9 ArgusEritaramis

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 01:04 PM

Several ideas spring to mind with regards to making F@H into a game or part of a game.
First, i think making it into a game for, or part of a game for facebook would be a good idea... Im sure we all know how much people some people are spending on their facebook, and this way, we could harvest some of that time.

Random ideas:
Folding Duel - two or more people compeet against eachother to be the first to fold the same protein. Other elements could be included to make it a 'Brain-Wrestle' where you have to compeet in various discplines of the mind... and we just make sure lots of fah pops up.
RTS Research - use the folding element to help people 'boost' research in a typical RTS, preferably multiplayer. Ie, you _can_ research new upgrades without doing it, but you research lots faster by 'helping' via folding.
Sorcery skin- replace the molecules with 'arcane symbols' and make it so someone in some fantasy game or another has to fold the arcane glyph in order to unlock whatever spell it is he requires or some such. Imagine the impact if World of Warcraft implemented such a system. Millions of players folding a few proteins a day on average. It wouldnt hinder the game any, but it would help science a lot.




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