Hi, Matt thanks for posting the links.
Unfortunately there aren't many who have been raw for that long a time (5o years) and have been studied. but there are a good amount, as in not 10's of thousands but probably somewhere in the multiple hundreds to thousands?(don't quote me there) , and many who do not use the high fruit method, cheat because they aren't getting their carbohydrates and are relying on proteins and fats. Most high "protein" foods are really "higher fat with a some protein" foods. I include eggs in my list of unhealthy. Our body dumps animal fat into our arteries, in animals adapted to meat, they do not. There are however quite a few who have been eating for long spans, and children how being raised on raw, and from all of them I talk to, they don't get colds, don't get sick, heal fast, put on muscle fast, don't get sore after working out like they used to, tons of injuries and chronic disease heals up, I hear it across the board, no joke, read some of the raw vegan forums if you don't believe me. I've seen enough before and afters in real life and on the web.
As far as BeyondVeg being used as a source:
Here is a quote for you from someone I was discussing this site with.
"When one looks at cooked food and asks the question: "How could cooked food be good for us?"
what they find is nothing but reasons why it is good.This is what that site does. There is no asking of the question: "IS cooked food good for us?"
Rather, "How is it good for us."Completely not a scientific approach. For instance with 9/11 we have "investigations" into it and the essential questions they ask is "How did the planes make the building collapse?"
Rather than asking the more logical question and more scientific question: "HOW did the building collapse?"At first glance they appear basically like the same thing, but as we can see clearly, the first question limits the possible answers, whereas the second question is the truly scientific approach where ANY answer that is correct can be accepted as long as it follows logic.This is how science becomes manipulated. Which in fact doesn't make it science anymore...it makes it barricaded inquiry. You can only ask questions which lead to certain conclusions...
Here's your cap and gown, congrats...now you are free to do...as we tell you.Beyond Veg indeed.... To far beyond veg that it's in fact almost nothing to do with veg. They should just call it ApproachingMeat.com instead"Many of em' don't even follow the diets advice and don't eat much fruit or veg, and overdo it on meat and nuts a.k.a concentrated fat sources. Our body produces it's own cholesterol, we don't have to add any.
We don't need as much protein or fat as many think, in fact the excesses lead to many diseases.
Alot of folks here on talk about longevity and disease like "we need to solve cancer, heart problems, etc, then turn off x and y gene and inject this stem cell promoter and turn on this gene" well we can do most of that naturally, through this diet. Countless effects we haven't and would be hard pressed to study (time, money, people willing to do instead of make some wonder drug or pill (big pharma) to sell people, sickness and disease and treatments make money, not as much as cures, and even less...prevention!) Keep 'em comin', keep em' sick, big industry, meat and dairy and fossil fuels, don't you see it all around you? ) are occurring, healthy genes switched on, unhealthy ones switched off, you can SEE the difference in people and disease, and if tested, the markers would show it, I've seen a few studies but my books aren't here, and I don't have the links, sorry.
This isn't meant to be a meat vs no meat thread really though.
It's more about raw vegan high fruit and a pure approach there, for longevity. As far as the spices, they may have some effects on the body, some have some antioxidants, or other phsyiologically active compounds, but their effect may also be the body dealing with the toxins in them, and trying to clear said toxins from the body. They distort our tastebuds from tasting things naturally as they are, and are known as excitotoxins, not on the level of msg and aspartame and more dangerous ones. I can tell you from my experience, and many others I've talked to, that our tastebuds become more refined, and soon you can taste the difference between different pieces of fruit, and fruit taste like candy, and tomatoes and greens taste wonderful, as in when I first made the switch the tastes were muddled, from all the cooked and overspiced food I ate. I still use fresh herbs of different sorts for flavor in some recipes, but I feel way better since cutting out salt, condiments, and other irritants.
And halotek, I don't cheat
As far as B12, again, there aren't huge studies, most studies are done on unhealthy people, who have years of toxic buildup, if you want to call it that, who have eaten sub-optimal diets, and have exposed themselves to many toxins, environmental, through food, lifestyle, etc. I am sure there is a post somewhere on the forum about the hundreds of industrial chemicals, plastics, and by-products you can go get tested for that most of us have some level of in our bodies? Think they are benign? Not likely.
The body does naturally work on removings these thigns, but mainly when we stop consuming them all the time and limit our exposure.
Anyways, about B12, one instance is a world class bike rider, he was a cooked food vegan, switched to the standard raw diet that people call hollywood or gourmet raw, lots of spices, lots of raw versions of foods people eat normally, not high fruit, probably plenty of greens, but also heavy handed of nuts, seeds, etc. His B12 levels were tested low numerous times. After adopting the 80-10-10, that is, whole fresh ripe raw fruits, mono-meals or more simplistic meals, lots of greens, and no irritants/spices/condiments, his levels are actually above average now. Not to mention he races gold medalists and keeps up with or ahead of em, and instead of sticking in an IV, he eats fruits and greens after a race. No drugs, no supplements, just perfect food source from the earth. Call it appeal to nature, I think nature is appealing to us and it's about time we listen. You can make your excuses, "oh, it's psychological, this guy just loves nature, so we won't listen". That's attitude doesn't get you to the truth does it? The truth is what's important. I'm not here to scientifically prove it, I feel it, and know it, and yes, there are things to be discovered and learned, but there is inherent truth to a raw vegan high fruit and greens diet on many levels. Sorry for not posting more studies or sitting here on a point by point basis, I am trying to spread the good word. Calorie restriction can happen naturally eating this way as well, with more nutrients and satiation. It also is more appropriate level then what most eat. Why do you think you can eat 3000kcal meal of rice and protein foods (that you had to cook and spice up to be palatable) and still crave something "sweet"?!? Our body knows the difference. Try eating some of the things plain, uncooked, getting it from it's natural state, see how appealing that is, slaughter an animal and eat it raw on the spot, suck on a teet, eat some uncooked rice. A couple million years of some cultures history doesn't mean much compared to the 50million years or more in question.
And again, listen to your body, try the diet out, for a year, get excercise, I see folks on here talking about diets that are good for sedentery lifestyles.... Hello! We are not meant for sedentery lifestyles! Get out, get some excercise, some fresh air, some sun! For real, I've tried half of the diets I see on here, I was jacked up on meat and hormones and protein powders, I know bodybuilders who are strong, want to see one who is a total fruitarian and doesn't even eat the greens that have tons of minerals, protein, alaklaizing minerals, enzymes, phytonutrients, essentail fastty acids, etc! check out richard blackman of fruitarian fitness. I think that greens are essential due to the depleted soil, fruit naturally has more more minerals and other nutrients (as does anything grown!) when the soil is optimal.
But yeah, truth is truth, despite opinion, so research, explore, see what resonates with your body and common sense, and don't bank it all on one study here or there about one micronutrient or hormone!
I'm not pushing anything, just sharing, but yeah, for the planet, for animals, there are many reasons this works out, it just seems to make sense on so many levels. And it works. As it is, I used to eat more meat then probly the paleo folks (heh), and I got real sick from it!
Anyways, enough here for now, just check it out for yourself, and keep an open mind!
Edited by Erok, 28 January 2009 - 02:45 AM.
