62 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

I am performing an experiment to see if I can cite a noticeable difference in my 1-Health Markers and 2-Physique on the paleo diet. I already was quite lean on my previous diet, with some muscle, so my goal for experimenting with the 'Paleo diet' is to see if it improves my muscle mass. I fully comprehend I need to give this diet a trial of at least a couple of months to notice any would be benefits. But thus far I find myself experiencing recurring hunger. Maybe I am not doing it right, so what I will do is give an example of what I will eat throughout a day and then request that those who are more familiar and who have more experience with this diet tell me what I am missing.

Day one:
Breakfast:
Approximately 2 servings of egg whites. Two slices of low carb bread with creamed cheese. Two or Three very generous handfuls of mixed nuts. Glass of low sodium V8

Lunch:
A medium sized bowl of Cottage cheese, with spirulina powder mixed in, topped with about 9 pieces of jumbo shrimp. Low carb tortilla with hummus and spinach inside.

Between meal snack:
About half a cup of almonds with a handful of dark chocolate chips.

Dinner:
2-3 Servings of low carb dream fields pasta drenched in olive oil, and I seriously mean 'drenched' as in 3-4 tablespoons of the stuff! Side of carrots, and a Fairly large tuna steak.



Day two:
Breakfast:
3 organic 'Omega 3' eggs topped with two table spoons of sour cream (gross I know, but hey, it's high fat, low carb!). Two slices of low carb bread with Almond butter on it. Glass of V8 Again.

Lunch:
Grilled cheese on low carb bread. I use a lot of cheddar for this. Almost 3 servings! Side of shrimp.

Between meal snack. Same as previous day.

Dinner:
Sorry, dream fields again (really running out of options I guess?)! And again drenched in olive oil, Maybe even with some mazzarella cheese sprinkled on top for added fat. Baked salmon fillet.

This is thus far what I have. I basically refuse to eat higher animals like cows, pigs and chickens (I don't consider fish as sentient as the other's. and I mostly eat shrimp anyway, but this is another discussion entirely), so bear this in mind when making your suggestions. And besides the growth hormone problem is out of hand in factory farmed meat. I also find this diet to be, somewhat expensive thus far. Can anyone make suggestions as to make it easier on the wallet? I somehow doubt it. I wanted to try this diet out before badgering people like Duke about how wrong it may be for every individual. But I want to make sure I do it correctly before Reporting any results. So please chime in on my newest dietary experiment. Tell me what I am missing. And if possible, tell me how I can avoid spending more than 200$ a month on a single diet for a single person! Because otherwise it is ridiculously expensive too. How do we expect people of medium incomes to afford such a diet (I already spend approximately 200$ monthly on my supplement regimen)? etc

Edited by TheFountain, 27 January 2009 - 08:20 AM.

[JLL]

If meat is out of the question then seafood is your next option. Low-carb bread isn't really paleo, and is likely the reason why you're feeling hungry, even though you're using lots of olive oil. Berries and some vegetables could be good too.

[Mixter]

Try a one day fast against the hunger prior to changing your diet.

Potentially too high in carb could be: the low-carb bread and tortillas?, cream/cottage cheese?, chocolate chips, low carb pasta...
I don't have the low carb products in europe, so I have no clue. The idea would be to get 20-40g of carbs per day at most.

I like low-GI diet better. It definitely is best regarding low IGF and insulin sensitivity often confers also the benefits of
methionine restriction as you don't need meat or diary. You can combine it with a paleo diet if you concentrate on
nuts, seeds and oils -- which can be eaten with any of the GI < 40 carbs.

Basic idea would be only eat green colored things: http://www.montignac.../ig_tableau.php

Regularly consuming cold-water fish makes you feel great... but probably not from the ocean if you plan to consume daily, because of
potential heavy metals (or just 'spice' it with MSM, R-ALA or EDTA ) Salmon from salmon farms is a better choice for daily consumption.

Edited by mixter, 27 January 2009 - 08:53 AM.

[ajnast4r]

not everyone is going to function optimally on a paleo style diet...

[TheFountain]

Try a one day fast against the hunger prior to changing your diet.

Potentially too high in carb could be: the low-carb bread and tortillas?, cream/cottage cheese?, chocolate chips, low carb pasta...
I don't have the low carb products in europe, so I have no clue. The idea would be to get 20-40g of carbs per day at most.

The low carb pasta has 6 grams of 'digestible' carb per serving and the bread has about the same per slice. I mean what am I suppose to eat? It's better to suggest something for me to replace these things with than to just say for me to stop eating them.

[TheFountain]

Low-carb bread isn't really paleo, and is likely the reason why you're feeling hungry

Can you expand on this please? Like tell me why you are saying it instead of just saying it please, thanks. I mean I need calories, and I am having a difficult time finding them on this diet. Yes I am consuming lots of olive oil and nuts, but this can't be my primary source of calories. it would see me taking in a mere 800-1000 calories daily, which us not conducive to muscle gaining.

Edited by TheFountain, 27 January 2009 - 09:37 AM.

[Prometheus]

Try this: 10 minutes before your meal have 60g of whey protein isolate mixed with water. You should no longer feel hungry. Then you can 'titrate' down the whey protein dose to accommodate the additional food you want to eat.

[Shepard]

Yeah, I'd call that a low-carb diet and not a paleo diet. When beginning a low-carb diet, there is a an odd sense of hunger, but it passes within four or five days. I'd recommend some form of exercise to blunt the feeling until it passes.

[TheFountain]

Try this: 10 minutes before your meal have 60g of whey protein isolate mixed with water. You should no longer feel hungry. Then you can 'titrate' down the whey protein dose to accommodate the additional food you want to eat.

I will try this as soon as I get my paycheck tomorrow. What about a low carb weight gain powder? Those are suppose to have anywhere from 300 to 500 calories per shot.

[TheFountain]

Yeah, I'd call that a low-carb diet and not a paleo diet. When beginning a low-carb diet, there is a an odd sense of hunger, but it passes within four or five days. I'd recommend some form of exercise to blunt the feeling until it passes.

I do resistance exercises in addition to Yoga two to three times weekly. I have actually cut down significantly on exercise in the past 3 to four weeks, I use to do various exercises 5-6 days a week, but I felt weak and far too too thin on this regimen. My understanding of what a Paleo diet is is that it is low carb, high fat/protein. Am I taking in enough fat calories? Maybe I just need to up my supplemental protein intake then.

[Shepard]

I do resistance exercises in addition to Yoga two to three times weekly. I have actually cut down significantly on exercise in the past 3 to four weeks, I use to do various exercises 5-6 days a week, but I felt weak and far too too thin on this regimen.

You need some fairly high intensity exercise (or at least high exertion) to really blunt hunger.

My understanding of what a Paleo diet is is that it is low carb, high fat/protein. Am I taking in enough fat calories? Maybe I just need to up my supplemental protein intake then.

No, that's more of a ketogenic diet. In the strictest sense, a paleo diet is what would only be available to a human living XXX years ago, generally taken to mean pre-agriculture. Meat, nuts, seeds, tubers, fruits, vegetables, etc. You can have plenty of carbs on a paleo diet, and you can have non-paleo foods on a low-carb diet.

[JLL]

Low-carb bread isn't really paleo, and is likely the reason why you're feeling hungry

Can you expand on this please? Like tell me why you are saying it instead of just saying it please, thanks. I mean I need calories, and I am having a difficult time finding them on this diet. Yes I am consuming lots of olive oil and nuts, but this can't be my primary source of calories. it would see me taking in a mere 800-1000 calories daily, which us not conducive to muscle gaining.

What shepard said.

A paleo diet without animal protein is impossible. A paleo diet without meat is possible, but difficult. You could take the Eskimo route and eat lots of fish, but then there's the toxins to worry about.

I don't know what low-carb bread and pasta are made of, but I assume they include grains, which are not part of a paleo diet. They can be a part of a low-carb diet, if the carb content is low, as you said it was. Still, for satiety, I'd eat something with a better satiety index.

As for what to eat, you don't need to have meals with rice or pasta or bread. For example, one of my most common recipes is salmon & shrimp in a tomato-coconut sauce, cooked with palm oil and olive oil. Sometimes I add vegetables, sometimes I don't. Just make a big enough portion and it'll give you lots of calories. Instead of replacing grain products with low-carb versions, I'd just get rid of them entirely and eat more of the protein and fat instead.

[rwac]

Yeah, I'd call that a low-carb diet and not a paleo diet. When beginning a low-carb diet, there is a an odd sense of hunger, but it passes within four or five days. I'd recommend some form of exercise to blunt the feeling until it passes.

I do resistance exercises in addition to Yoga two to three times weekly. I have actually cut down significantly on exercise in the past 3 to four weeks, I use to do various exercises 5-6 days a week, but I felt weak and far too too thin on this regimen. My understanding of what a Paleo diet is is that it is low carb, high fat/protein. Am I taking in enough fat calories? Maybe I just need to up my supplemental protein intake then.

I'm going to suggest a milkshake with whey, coconut cream, heavy cream.
Add stuff to taste, possibly almond butter, cocoa, blueberries, berries, etc.

Very low carb and tasty. You'll even need less sweeteners after a while.

[rwac]

I am performing an experiment to see if I can cite a noticeable difference in my 1-Health Markers and 2-Physique on the paleo diet. I already was quite lean on my previous diet, with some muscle, so my goal for experimenting with the 'Paleo diet' is to see if it improves my muscle mass. I fully comprehend I need to give this diet a trial of at least a couple of months to notice any would be benefits. But thus far I find myself experiencing recurring hunger. Maybe I am not doing it right, so what I will do is give an example of what I will eat throughout a day and then request that those who are more familiar and who have more experience with this diet tell me what I am missing.

Day one:
Breakfast:
Approximately 2 servings of egg whites. Two slices of low carb bread with creamed cheese. Two or Three very generous handfuls of mixed nuts. Glass of low sodium V8

Lunch:
A medium sized bowl of Cottage cheese, with spirulina powder mixed in, topped with about 9 pieces of jumbo shrimp. Low carb tortilla with hummus and spinach inside.

Between meal snack:
About half a cup of almonds with a handful of dark chocolate chips.

Dinner:
2-3 Servings of low carb dream fields pasta drenched in olive oil, and I seriously mean 'drenched' as in 3-4 tablespoons of the stuff! Side of carrots, and a Fairly large tuna steak.



Day two:
Breakfast:
3 organic 'Omega 3' eggs topped with two table spoons of sour cream (gross I know, but hey, it's high fat, low carb!). Two slices of low carb bread with Almond butter on it. Glass of V8 Again.

Lunch:
Grilled cheese on low carb bread. I use a lot of cheddar for this. Almost 3 servings! Side of shrimp.

Between meal snack. Same as previous day.

Dinner:
Sorry, dream fields again (really running out of options I guess?)! And again drenched in olive oil, Maybe even with some mazzarella cheese sprinkled on top for added fat. Baked salmon fillet.

This is thus far what I have. I basically refuse to eat higher animals like cows, pigs and chickens (I don't consider fish as sentient as the other's. and I mostly eat shrimp anyway, but this is another discussion entirely), so bear this in mind when making your suggestions. And besides the growth hormone problem is out of hand in factory farmed meat. I also find this diet to be, somewhat expensive thus far. Can anyone make suggestions as to make it easier on the wallet? I somehow doubt it. I wanted to try this diet out before badgering people like Duke about how wrong it may be for every individual. But I want to make sure I do it correctly before Reporting any results. So please chime in on my newest dietary experiment. Tell me what I am missing. And if possible, tell me how I can avoid spending more than 200$ a month on a single diet for a single person! Because otherwise it is ridiculously expensive too. How do we expect people of medium incomes to afford such a diet (I already spend approximately 200$ monthly on my supplement regimen)? etc

You also want to avoid gluten if you're going to go paleo.
Make sure your low carb bread/pasta don't have gluten.

The theory is that gluten is bad for you even if you aren't gluten intolerant.

[Dmitri]

I do resistance exercises in addition to Yoga two to three times weekly. I have actually cut down significantly on exercise in the past 3 to four weeks, I use to do various exercises 5-6 days a week, but I felt weak and far too too thin on this regimen.

You need some fairly high intensity exercise (or at least high exertion) to really blunt hunger.

My understanding of what a Paleo diet is is that it is low carb, high fat/protein. Am I taking in enough fat calories? Maybe I just need to up my supplemental protein intake then.

No, that's more of a ketogenic diet. In the strictest sense, a paleo diet is what would only be available to a human living XXX years ago, generally taken to mean pre-agriculture. Meat, nuts, seeds, tubers, fruits, vegetables, etc. You can have plenty of carbs on a paleo diet, and you can have non-paleo foods on a low-carb diet.

How intense and how long does the exercise have to be? I'm always hungry after exercising (not a problem on days I don't exercise), though I drink water (24-32 fl oz) afterwards and it seems to go away. The problem though is that when I drink water late in the afternoon I end up waking up once or twice during the night to use the restroom and sleep interruption is just as bad as sleeping less than 8 hours. I do eat carbs but since I'm on mild CR (1,500-1,800 calories a day) I don't think it would adversely affect my health.

[Shepard]

How intense and how long does the exercise have to be?

Depends on the person. For me, the stage where hunger is significantly blunted sets in one stage before mild nausea. You'll have to spend a while exercising before you can differentiate how you feel during various levels of exertion.

[Erok]

Brother, your hungry because your starving your body of what it needs, eat some fruit!
We can sometimes fool our bodies to expend enormous amounts of energy converting protein and fat to the sugars we need, but our body thanks us for it and it is self-evident when we consume fresh ripe fruit in abundance, and some greens too for mineralization. Check out the other post called "the healthiest diet" in this forum. read some of the links..

read this on the paleo diet http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm

[Prometheus]

Try this: 10 minutes before your meal have 60g of whey protein isolate mixed with water. You should no longer feel hungry. Then you can 'titrate' down the whey protein dose to accommodate the additional food you want to eat.

I will try this as soon as I get my paycheck tomorrow. What about a low carb weight gain powder? Those are suppose to have anywhere from 300 to 500 calories per shot.

Just get pure whey protein isolate without all the added flavors and other crap. And dont listen to shepard, if you get a big dose of protein into you - particularly in the form of high bioavailability wpi - you will feel full, even if you're a sugar addict. Just remember to drink water when you're thirsty. And you can take the wpi as often (as a meal preload) as you like.

[Shepard]

And dont listen to shepard

Oh, you're quite the charmer.

[Prometheus]

And dont listen to shepard

Oh, you're quite the charmer.

Don't get jealous.

[TheFountain]

Yeah, I'd call that a low-carb diet and not a paleo diet. When beginning a low-carb diet, there is a an odd sense of hunger, but it passes within four or five days. I'd recommend some form of exercise to blunt the feeling until it passes.

I do resistance exercises in addition to Yoga two to three times weekly. I have actually cut down significantly on exercise in the past 3 to four weeks, I use to do various exercises 5-6 days a week, but I felt weak and far too too thin on this regimen. My understanding of what a Paleo diet is is that it is low carb, high fat/protein. Am I taking in enough fat calories? Maybe I just need to up my supplemental protein intake then.

I'm going to suggest a milkshake with whey, coconut cream, heavy cream.
Add stuff to taste, possibly almond butter, cocoa, blueberries, berries, etc.

Very low carb and tasty. You'll even need less sweeteners after a while.

is there anything I need to remember when looking for coconut cream? I want to get the right stuff. What area of the grocery store can it be found in? Any Legumes that I can consume that are fairly low in carbs but high in calories?

Edited by TheFountain, 29 January 2009 - 02:54 PM.

[TheFountain]

I am performing an experiment to see if I can cite a noticeable difference in my 1-Health Markers and 2-Physique on the paleo diet. I already was quite lean on my previous diet, with some muscle, so my goal for experimenting with the 'Paleo diet' is to see if it improves my muscle mass. I fully comprehend I need to give this diet a trial of at least a couple of months to notice any would be benefits. But thus far I find myself experiencing recurring hunger. Maybe I am not doing it right, so what I will do is give an example of what I will eat throughout a day and then request that those who are more familiar and who have more experience with this diet tell me what I am missing.

Day one:
Breakfast:
Approximately 2 servings of egg whites. Two slices of low carb bread with creamed cheese. Two or Three very generous handfuls of mixed nuts. Glass of low sodium V8

Lunch:
A medium sized bowl of Cottage cheese, with spirulina powder mixed in, topped with about 9 pieces of jumbo shrimp. Low carb tortilla with hummus and spinach inside.

Between meal snack:
About half a cup of almonds with a handful of dark chocolate chips.

Dinner:
2-3 Servings of low carb dream fields pasta drenched in olive oil, and I seriously mean 'drenched' as in 3-4 tablespoons of the stuff! Side of carrots, and a Fairly large tuna steak.



Day two:
Breakfast:
3 organic 'Omega 3' eggs topped with two table spoons of sour cream (gross I know, but hey, it's high fat, low carb!). Two slices of low carb bread with Almond butter on it. Glass of V8 Again.

Lunch:
Grilled cheese on low carb bread. I use a lot of cheddar for this. Almost 3 servings! Side of shrimp.

Between meal snack. Same as previous day.

Dinner:
Sorry, dream fields again (really running out of options I guess?)! And again drenched in olive oil, Maybe even with some mazzarella cheese sprinkled on top for added fat. Baked salmon fillet.

This is thus far what I have. I basically refuse to eat higher animals like cows, pigs and chickens (I don't consider fish as sentient as the other's. and I mostly eat shrimp anyway, but this is another discussion entirely), so bear this in mind when making your suggestions. And besides the growth hormone problem is out of hand in factory farmed meat. I also find this diet to be, somewhat expensive thus far. Can anyone make suggestions as to make it easier on the wallet? I somehow doubt it. I wanted to try this diet out before badgering people like Duke about how wrong it may be for every individual. But I want to make sure I do it correctly before Reporting any results. So please chime in on my newest dietary experiment. Tell me what I am missing. And if possible, tell me how I can avoid spending more than 200$ a month on a single diet for a single person! Because otherwise it is ridiculously expensive too. How do we expect people of medium incomes to afford such a diet (I already spend approximately 200$ monthly on my supplement regimen)? etc

You also want to avoid gluten if you're going to go paleo.
Make sure your low carb bread/pasta don't have gluten.

The theory is that gluten is bad for you even if you aren't gluten intolerant.

Damn the low carb Pasta has wheat Gluten in it. I might cycle it, in place of another brand of low carb pasta, if i can find one. Or else just not eating it every day.

[TheFountain]

Brother, your hungry because your starving your body of what it needs, eat some fruit!
We can sometimes fool our bodies to expend enormous amounts of energy converting protein and fat to the sugars we need, but our body thanks us for it and it is self-evident when we consume fresh ripe fruit in abundance, and some greens too for mineralization. Check out the other post called "the healthiest diet" in this forum. read some of the links..

read this on the paleo diet http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm

Suggest some low carb green vegetables please. I Also tend to cycle Royal Jelly extract. About two weeks on, two weeks off. I happened to start this low carb diet on my two week off period.

[TheFountain]

Try this: 10 minutes before your meal have 60g of whey protein isolate mixed with water. You should no longer feel hungry. Then you can 'titrate' down the whey protein dose to accommodate the additional food you want to eat.

I will try this as soon as I get my paycheck tomorrow. What about a low carb weight gain powder? Those are suppose to have anywhere from 300 to 500 calories per shot.

Just get pure whey protein isolate without all the added flavors and other crap. And dont listen to shepard, if you get a big dose of protein into you - particularly in the form of high bioavailability wpi - you will feel full, even if you're a sugar addict. Just remember to drink water when you're thirsty. And you can take the wpi as often (as a meal preload) as you like.

I think part of the problem is the fat calories aren't sticking as well as the calories from carbs I was getting before. I notice my rib cage is becoming increasingly visible, my face slightly sunken, and I am starting to experience a tightening sensation on the occipital region of my cranium. Explanation?

As an aside, I have only been exercising 2-3 times a week, and yet I seem to be losing mass despite all the fatty acids I am consuming.

[TheFountain]

I am quickly beginning to realize that I cannot do the 40- carb per day thing. So what I am seeing is a diet fairly low in carbs, at around 100-125 carbs a day at the most, high in fatty acids, and soon to be high in protein. I might have to add my namesake to this diet if it works, which I am not quite sure it will. Comments?

As it stands I have been eating way too many nuts, primarily for caloric intake, and it is making me nauseous. Hopefully once I make some more additions and even some things out I can report good results. Perhaps it was wrong of me to label this a Paleo Diet. It is obviously a variation of a low carb/ketogenic diet.

Edited by TheFountain, 29 January 2009 - 02:54 PM.

[Shepard]

Explanation?

Just a crazy thought, but you might be hungry because you're not eating enough. I hear that happens to people sometimes when they lose weight.

[TheFountain]

Explanation?

Just a crazy thought, but you might be hungry because you're not eating enough. I hear that happens to people sometimes when they lose weight.

I eat a lot of food daily, the problem is calories, I am just not getting them on this diet so far. I am going to see what happens when I make additions to it, and if I notice no steadying out of body mass, I am going back to my asiatic vegetarian/fish diet which did not restrict 'good carb' consumption, such as rice, which is replete in calories also.

[Shepard]

Pour olive oil on everything. That should help.

[TheFountain]

Pour olive oil on everything. That should help.

Believe me buddy, I am. At least 2 table spoons on everything I eat, incuding my 4% cottage cheese, mixing the olive oil in with it. This leads to the question I asked in another thread, how much fat is too much, especially when the calories are not noticeably sticking?

[DukeNukem]

A paleo diet without animal protein is impossible. A paleo diet without meat is possible, but difficult. You could take the Eskimo route and eat lots of fish, but then there's the toxins to worry about.

This is an important point. Animal meats are nutrient rich, while processed foods like low-carb bread and pasta are not. Plus, animal meats digest more slowly than processed foods like low-carb bread. These facts are key to satiation.