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Removing calculus


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#1 caston

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:28 PM


Hello,

Not that i'm trying to get out of going to the dentist but there is often a wait to see them and there is not always one available.

You could use something like the Vitapick (http://www.albrite.com/) no affiliation to disclose but i've ordered one and hope it arrives soon and am going to try it out.
I envisage that although it will help kill bacteria in the pockets that it won't be able to remove subgingival calculus. Only a dentist or perhaps only a periodontist could do this.

The problem I have at the moment is that when flossing between a tooth at one of the very back corners of my mouth on the bottom left hand side the floss smell incredibly bad. No amount of flossing or brushing seems to relieve the problem and doing so brings intense bleeding.

I have ordered some revgenetics micronized resveratrol as I have read hearsey and googled a few studies suggesting the resveratrol can help reduce levels of peridontal bacteria.

At the moment I do have an appointment to see a periodontist but they couldn't fit me in until April. Also I'd really like to avoid the expense and unconvenience of gum surgery if possible. I'm thinking of going to get another scale and clean from my dentist soon. But in regards to removing calculus I found the following in wikipedia which makes me wonder if there is no an intelligent way we can do this using science and oppositely charged particles or break the ionic attraction ... or something.. I failed chem ):...

http://en.wikipedia....i/Periodontitis


"Because the root cause of subgingival calculus development is ionic attraction, it was hypothesized that the introduction of oppositely charged particles around the formations may chelate calcium phosphate salt components away from the matrix, thus actually reducing the size of subgingival calculus formations.

To accomplish this, a sequestering agent solution comprised partly of Sodium Tripolyphosphate (STPP) and Sodium Fluoride (charge -1) was tested on a patient with burnished and new subgingival calculus at a depth of 6mm. The patient delivered the solution using an oral irrigator, once a day, for sixty days. The results of this test were the successful elimination of all calculus formations studied.[10] This test was conducted using a subgingival endoscopic camera (Perioscope) by an independent periodontist.

The promise of this new, alternative treatment is to keep subgingival calculus at bay, in concert with traditional periodontal treatments. In this way, periodontitis may be controlled by the patient, with complete restoration of dental health being a collaborative effort between the patient and the dental professional."

#2 nowayout

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:19 PM

Hello,

Not that i'm trying to get out of going to the dentist but there is often a wait to see them and there is not always one available.

You could use something like the Vitapick (http://www.albrite.com/) no affiliation to disclose but i've ordered one and hope it arrives soon and am going to try it out.
I envisage that although it will help kill bacteria in the pockets that it won't be able to remove subgingival calculus. Only a dentist or perhaps only a periodontist could do this.

The problem I have at the moment is that when flossing between a tooth at one of the very back corners of my mouth on the bottom left hand side the floss smell incredibly bad. No amount of flossing or brushing seems to relieve the problem and doing so brings intense bleeding.

I have ordered some revgenetics micronized resveratrol as I have read hearsey and googled a few studies suggesting the resveratrol can help reduce levels of peridontal bacteria.

At the moment I do have an appointment to see a periodontist but they couldn't fit me in until April. Also I'd really like to avoid the expense and unconvenience of gum surgery if possible. I'm thinking of going to get another scale and clean from my dentist soon. But in regards to removing calculus I found the following in wikipedia which makes me wonder if there is no an intelligent way we can do this using science and oppositely charged particles or break the ionic attraction ... or something.. I failed chem ):...

http://en.wikipedia....i/Periodontitis


"Because the root cause of subgingival calculus development is ionic attraction, it was hypothesized that the introduction of oppositely charged particles around the formations may chelate calcium phosphate salt components away from the matrix, thus actually reducing the size of subgingival calculus formations.

To accomplish this, a sequestering agent solution comprised partly of Sodium Tripolyphosphate (STPP) and Sodium Fluoride (charge -1) was tested on a patient with burnished and new subgingival calculus at a depth of 6mm. The patient delivered the solution using an oral irrigator, once a day, for sixty days. The results of this test were the successful elimination of all calculus formations studied.[10] This test was conducted using a subgingival endoscopic camera (Perioscope) by an independent periodontist.

The promise of this new, alternative treatment is to keep subgingival calculus at bay, in concert with traditional periodontal treatments. In this way, periodontitis may be controlled by the patient, with complete restoration of dental health being a collaborative effort between the patient and the dental professional."


Don't know if relevant to your problem but a dental hygienist friend of mine recommended an ionizing water pick as better floss. Not just any water pick, though - it has to be ionizing.

#3 zorba990

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 07:18 PM

Don't know if relevant to your problem but a dental hygienist friend of mine recommended an ionizing water pick as better floss. Not just any water pick, though - it has to be ionizing.


I used one of these ages ago: http://www.ionictoothbrush.net/
The problem was that the ions took off the mercury from my fillings and ended up causing me quite
a problem with mercury toxicity -- took me over a year to get over it. I still like the concept,
but I think they should warn people with mercury fillings not to use it.

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#4 caston

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 01:11 AM

Damn Zobra, I don't see any warnings on their site about mercury fillings. Did you e-mail them about it? I guess you could have sued them...

I don't have any filling myself so it looks like a good idea. I wonder if it helps the teeth repel subgingival calculus.

Edited by caston, 31 January 2009 - 01:13 AM.


#5 nowayout

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 01:44 AM

Damn Zobra, I don't see any warnings on their site about mercury fillings. Did you e-mail them about it? I guess you could have sued them...

I don't have any filling myself so it looks like a good idea. I wonder if it helps the teeth repel subgingival calculus.


Would probably be a waste of money for that - I think you need an ionizing water pick to do that well.

#6 caston

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:20 AM

andre: can you recommend a good ionizing water pick. I only ordered the Vitarick... this one is not ionising?

Have you seen periowave before? it's a good solution for dentists and dental hygienists to offer but at the moment no dentist in my city has this facility.

http://www.periowave...n/Homepage.aspx

I also had a spare $50 visa gift card lying around so I used that to order the ionic toothbrush that zorba linked to.

After ordering it though I did a bit more googling and found the toothbrush that appears to be popular in Japan. According to the sales pitch it can use any light source instead of an inbuilt battery.

"When exposed to any light source (a fluorescent bathroom light, a plain light bulb, or sunlight), the photo-
sensitive titanium rod inside Soladey-2 converts light into negatively charged electrons (ions). The rod
releases the ions, which blend with saliva to attract positive (hydrogen) ions from the acid in the dental plaque.
The acid is then neutralized and plaque is disintegrated - a scientific approach to a cleaner and healthier mouth! Toothpaste is not required as water (saliva) is the active ingredient - oral hygiene now becomes not only natural, but also economical!

"
NIFTY!

Anyone used a Soladey before?.. did you think it was better or worse than the other ionic toothbrush?

http://www.soladey.com/

http://www.innerglow....au/z_ig_tb.php

Edited by caston, 31 January 2009 - 08:53 AM.


#7 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:58 AM

If you keep the plaque from getting a foothold calculus shouldn't become a problem most places. Exceptions could include the inner surface of lower front teeth - where minerals from the saliva tend to build up - and on the outer surface of upper molars opposite the parotid papillae.

However do you know what your pocket probing depths are? Depths greater than 3 mm are impossible to keep clean with home care alone (brushing 2x and flossing 1x per day) and will require professional intervention on a regular basis or gum surgery to reduce their depth.

You may want to do some reading about chlorhexadine. In the United States it is available by Rx only but that may be a bit different down under. It has some possible side effects including the chance of altering the sense of taste but it might be beneficial for you to place some topically in the area that the odor is coming from. If it is a third molar (wisdom tooth) you especially may need to consider having it removed to prevent it from becoming a nidus of periodontal infection. A dentist with some diagnostic x-rays and periodontal data will be able to provide you with a much better informed professional opinion.

One last thought: even though dentists tend to be more do-it-yourself type people than average I have never heard of one performing a complete prophylactic cleaning or scaling & root planing session on him or her self. I do know a dentist who performed his own root canal in the mirror but most would find that to be pretty hardcore :~

Edited by lunarsolarpower, 31 January 2009 - 10:59 AM.


#8 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 03:35 PM

Hello,

Not that i'm trying to get out of going to the dentist but there is often a wait to see them and there is not always one available.

I envisage that although it will help kill bacteria in the pockets that it won't be able to remove subgingival calculus. Only a dentist or perhaps only a periodontist could do this.

The problem I have at the moment is that when flossing between a tooth at one of the very back corners of my mouth on the bottom left hand side the floss smell incredibly bad. No amount of flossing or brushing seems to relieve the problem and doing so brings intense bleeding.


I've never had a cavity in my life, I do my own dental work and you can too. Like everyone else here I advise you to get a water pic. I don't have an ionizing one I have an old water pic, very old. If your buying new, I guess that is the way to go. If you are flossing and still get odor you have deep pockets and food particles are down where floss can't reach. The water pic will flush that out. Oh your going to hate it at first because it's going to most likely hurt, so use the gentle setting for awhile. I assume your sensitive to hot and cold liquids?

The wonderful thing about a water pic is that you never have to floss again once you you can work up to the higher setting.

Next thing is your tothbrush. I'll brb.

#9 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 03:57 PM

Hello,
Our Price: $109.99
Not that i'm trying to get out of going to the dentist but there is often a wait to see them and there is not always one available.

You could use something like the Vitapick (http://www.albrite.com/) no affiliation to disclose but i've ordered one and hope it arrives soon and am going to try it out.


Just went in to read that site. It looks interesting enough, and you probably have pockets much deeper than 4. I'm thinking you have 10-11 pockets, but not to worry, you can get it back.

I would highly advise you buy a sonicare. I bought one when they first came out, it is amazing. The first time I used it I my teeth had that just been polished feel. I just checked ther website out, they have all kinds of selection these days. I have a model that they have listed as the bottom of the line, in fact it is now a discontined item. I better get a few brush heads before they get discotinued. At any rate, this brush is years old but it works like the day I got it for the most part. The battery doesn't hold a charge as well as it did, It used to go 2 weeks on a charge and now it goes about a week, but I charge it every 3 days or so for a peak charge.

The old model had one speed, one brush head option and if I recall it was about 75 or 80 dollars. I winced at the price tag at the time, but it is a deal.

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#10 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 04:17 PM

Today for 110 you can go top of the line, that’s what I would do if mine died today. The newer models have varying speed and different brush head options. It shows detailed battery charge, that is worth throwing extra at because it sucks not knowing when you battery is going to die. A 30-second interval timer, I can’t tell you how many times I wish I could have had that option. The old model has the 2 minute timer. I’m not sure I consider it good that it has an Extra gentle bristle design. I like a more aggressive brush and if you have deep pockets you want to stay on the more aggressive side of brushing. In fact, I would buy the cheaper model to get a more aggressive brush head.

At any rate, they are great at removing dental plaque. But that doesn’t get us to solving your problem yet. You want to remove calculus and as great as a sonicare is, it isn’t going to rip all the calculus from your pockets. It will eventually take all the calculus from just below your gumline off, but it just isn’t going to get into a ten pocket.

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 31 January 2009 - 04:18 PM.


#11 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:14 PM

You cannot easily brush calculus off your teeth with a toothbrush, and oral Irrigators are great for cleaning between teeth and gums, but they won’t really take calculus off either. You need dental instruments, plain and simple. You need Sharp picks. You can get buy with a cheap set, like the ones you can get at any drug store or wall mart. They are usually made from soft steel.

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#12 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:23 PM

This might surprise you Caston, but you can also get the same quality dental instruments that your dentist uses for cheap. The pics that your dentist uses can be bought for 3 dollars per pick and those picks are made from grade 410 stainless steel for hardness and autoclavability. Think about it for a moment, if you want to remove your calculus, what is going to be more effective than simply scraping it off? Don’t make this any harder than it needs to be, because it isn’t difficult to do this.

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 31 January 2009 - 05:23 PM.


#13 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:33 PM

One more post and then I gotta get back to my Fighting Cancer Thread. The first week after I got out of jail this past spring I bought a dentek sonic dental pick for 11 bucks. That works well, but I still advise you to get the professional stainless steel picks.

I do have more to post if you are interested Caston, just let me know.

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#14 rwac

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 06:23 AM

I would highly advise you buy a sonicare. I bought one when they first came out, it is amazing. The first time I used it I my teeth had that just been polished feel. I just checked ther website out, they have all kinds of selection these days. I have a model that they have listed as the bottom of the line, in fact it is now a discontined item. I better get a few brush heads before they get discotinued. At any rate, this brush is years old but it works like the day I got it for the most part. The battery doesn't hold a charge as well as it did, It used to go 2 weeks on a charge and now it goes about a week, but I charge it every 3 days or so for a peak charge.


Hmmm. I have both the sonicare and the Oral B and I have to say the Oral B beats the pants off the sonicare.

#15 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 08:13 AM

Just went in to read that site. It looks interesting enough, and you probably have pockets much deeper than 4. I'm thinking you have 10-11 pockets, but not to worry, you can get it back.


You can't "get it back" when you have 10+ mm pockets. The only way to have pockets that deep is for there to be significant bone loss (or alternately gingival hyperplasia so extreme you can't see the teeth anymore). With adequate periodontal therapy you may have some reattachment but I've never heard of an 11 mm pocket becoming a 3 without surgery.

I assume those "picks" you are talking about are what we call explorers. They can poke around for tasks like checking crown margins or for "sticks" in deep grooves but they aren't for removing calculus. Calculus is removed with instruments called curettes. There are specific curettes for specific regions such as the 13/14 for very posterior work, the 11/12 for work a bit farther forward and the 5/6 for anterior work. There is also a "universal curette" which is quite useful particularly between lower incisors.

As I said before though, I don't see anyone trying to use these things on themselves. From what Caston has said here he may have a serious progressive condition that could cause long-term damage to teeth he needs if he doesn't get it checked out. It doesn't sound like he just has a couple "clicks" of calculus here and some mild gingivitis there.

#16 senseix

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:28 AM

I would highly advise you buy a sonicare. I bought one when they first came out, it is amazing. The first time I used it I my teeth had that just been polished feel. I just checked ther website out, they have all kinds of selection these days. I have a model that they have listed as the bottom of the line, in fact it is now a discontined item. I better get a few brush heads before they get discotinued. At any rate, this brush is years old but it works like the day I got it for the most part. The battery doesn't hold a charge as well as it did, It used to go 2 weeks on a charge and now it goes about a week, but I charge it every 3 days or so for a peak charge.


Hmmm. I have both the sonicare and the Oral B and I have to say the Oral B beats the pants off the sonicare.



I have to agree, i LOVE my Oral B Triumph, i have the smart guide, kinda fun thing, but even without i'd still love this toothbrush.

#17 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 05:46 PM

Hmmm. I have both the sonicare and the Oral B and I have to say the Oral B beats the pants off the sonicare.


Really, because I've been very happy with the ole sonicare and it's old tech, so outdated it's now a discontinued item. I've never tried the Oral B, but if you got both your in a better position to report that than I. If nothing else the battery on this is going to give out at some time here. I'm amazed that the battery has gone this many years. When that happens I'll be looking to upgrade, so tell me all the ways that you find the Oral B to be better. I was all about upgrading to the next generation of sonicare, but I'm not opposed to switching to a better brand if it out performs what I have.

#18 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 06:16 PM

Just went in to read that site. It looks interesting enough, and you probably have pockets much deeper than 4. I'm thinking you have 10-11 pockets, but not to worry, you can get it back.


You can't "get it back" when you have 10+ mm pockets.


Yes you can, I have personally done it myself.

#19 rwac

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 07:02 PM

Hmmm. I have both the sonicare and the Oral B and I have to say the Oral B beats the pants off the sonicare.


Really, because I've been very happy with the ole sonicare and it's old tech, so outdated it's now a discontinued item. I've never tried the Oral B, but if you got both your in a better position to report that than I. If nothing else the battery on this is going to give out at some time here. I'm amazed that the battery has gone this many years. When that happens I'll be looking to upgrade, so tell me all the ways that you find the Oral B to be better. I was all about upgrading to the next generation of sonicare, but I'm not opposed to switching to a better brand if it out performs what I have.


I like the rotary action on the Oral B. It has a very good scrubbing action that leaves my teeth feeling much cleaner than the Sonicare.

But then its possible that I don't use it as often as I should, and so plaque builds up and needs to be removed.

#20 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:08 PM

I like the rotary action on the Oral B. It has a very good scrubbing action that leaves my teeth feeling much cleaner than the Sonicare.


My teeth feel smooth as glass when I'm done

#21 caston

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 02:46 AM

Thanks Lunar and the first immortal... I was avoiding getting my wisdom teeth out... the dentist wanted me to get an xray and I've been dragging my feet about doing.. i'll get it done now... then i'll call them up and book another scale and clean and they should have the xray results by then...

if the wisdom teeth are hiding to much plaque and calculus that is difficult to get out it may be to get them out.

Maybe I'll get them banked :~

http://news.national...h-stemcell.html

#22 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 05:52 AM

Thanks Lunar and the first immortal...


Your Welcome,
I can give you a more detailed account of the whole teeth cleaning issue, tell you my story if you want to hear it. It would take me a bit to detail it out but I would be more than happy to do that.

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#23 caston

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:16 AM

Will: i'm going to try the ionic toothbrush first as i've already ordered it and waiting for it to arrive.
I just had an xray done and i'm sort of kicking myself for not asking for a 2nd copy for myself... the xray they took is being sent to my dentist anyway.

Also check out this page from a company called Periopeak:

http://www.periopeak...o/case-studies/

They use something called " Regenerative Periodontal Endoscopy - RPE"

"RPE is a unique, non-surgical periodontal treatment approach. By combining several advanced technologies we are able to achieve remarkable clinical results without surgery. RPE is not merely an endoscopic procedure, it is a unique synergistic protocol specifically designed to arrest periodontal disease long term and promote regeneration."



"The RPE Protocol:

When an anti-inflammatory medication is combined with the efficient microscopic removal of tarter or calculus (perioscopy), followed by coating the roots with regenerative proteins (emdogain), results are extraordinary. Periodontal health is restored and regeneration occurs. "

They then show a crap load of case studies with lots of juicy periodontal chaos before and after they restore order and slow the entropy.

So yeah the bit about regenerating the roots by coating with regenerative proteins is really interesting and probably what a lot of people need.

Edited by caston, 02 February 2009 - 06:30 AM.


#24 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:23 AM

I haven't had the time to read all the way through this paper regarding third molar extractions but skimming the first few conclusions was interesting.

#25 caston

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:44 AM

I haven't had the time to read all the way through this paper regarding third molar extractions but skimming the first few conclusions was interesting.


Thanks lunar:

Have you heard of emdogain before?
it's looks quite interesting!

http://www.straumann...au_emdogain.htm
http://www.straumann...egeneration.htm

#26 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 07:30 AM

Will: i'm going to try the ionic toothbrush first as i've already ordered it and waiting for it to arrive.
I just had an xray done and i'm sort of kicking myself for not asking for a 2nd copy for myself... the xray they took is being sent to my dentist anyway.

Also check out this page from a company called Periopeak:

http://www.periopeak...o/case-studies/

They use something called " Regenerative Periodontal Endoscopy - RPE"

"RPE is a unique, non-surgical periodontal treatment approach. By combining several advanced technologies we are able to achieve remarkable clinical results without surgery. RPE is not merely an endoscopic procedure, it is a unique synergistic protocol specifically designed to arrest periodontal disease long term and promote regeneration."



"The RPE Protocol:

When an anti-inflammatory medication is combined with the efficient microscopic removal of tarter or calculus (perioscopy), followed by coating the roots with regenerative proteins (emdogain), results are extraordinary. Periodontal health is restored and regeneration occurs. "

They then show a crap load of case studies with lots of juicy periodontal chaos before and after they restore order and slow the entropy.

So yeah the bit about regenerating the roots by coating with regenerative proteins is really interesting and probably what a lot of people need.

I'm getting ready to crash, but I would be glad to check that out later today.

#27 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 04:04 PM

This might surprise you Caston, but you can also get the same quality dental instruments that your dentist uses for cheap. The pics that your dentist uses can be bought for 3 dollars per pick and those picks are made from grade 410 stainless steel for hardness and autoclavability. Think about it for a moment, if you want to remove your calculus, what is going to be more effective than simply scraping it off? Don’t make this any harder than it needs to be, because it isn’t difficult to do this.


Yes, yes, this reminds me of the time I repaired my inguinal hernia at home with a mirror, scalpel, sewing needle, and dental floss. The scalpel was only $1.99 on eBay, so why pay those expensive hospital fees? :)

#28 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 12:31 AM

I just had an xray done and i'm sort of kicking myself for not asking for a 2nd copy for myself... the xray they took is being sent to my dentist anyway.


Just call them up and ask for a copy, they will put it on a disc and send it to you. You might not be able to take the image out and upload it. I couldn't get at my X-Rays and CT images. I could view tham but I could not copy or cut and past them.

#29 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 02:58 AM

Also check out this page from a company called Periopeak:

http://www.periopeak...o/case-studies/

They use something called " Regenerative Periodontal Endoscopy - RPE"

"RPE is a unique, non-surgical periodontal treatment approach. By combining several advanced technologies we are able to achieve remarkable clinical results without surgery. RPE is not merely an endoscopic procedure, it is a unique synergistic protocol specifically designed to arrest periodontal disease long term and promote regeneration."


I'll be honest with you Caston, I'm impressed with this. I would hop on this before I did gum surgery or root planing.

#30 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 03:08 AM

Will: i'm going to try the ionic toothbrush first as i've already ordered it and waiting for it to arrive.


I just read up on it, it looks better than a regular toothbrush.




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