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Resveratrol and Joints


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#91 geddarkstorm

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:05 PM

Another Joint question. I have been taking Res for about 6-7 weeks now and i have some back problems in my Lower back. I began to have this before Resvaratrol but it seems to be Worse now that i have been taking this drug. Not sure if this is just my back getting worse due to excercise i am doing or the Drug is making it worse ???


Could be how you are sleeping too, a bad mattress will do that and make things get progressively worst and worst depending on how you position as you sleep. Are you doing a lot of sit-ups to strengthen the lower back? Those help with back pain. I don't see how resveratrol would contribute to that, but it sounds like it's progressively getting worst as it started before your resv use.

Edited by geddarkstorm, 16 March 2009 - 11:05 PM.


#92 FedAce

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:49 PM

Another Joint question. I have been taking Res for about 6-7 weeks now and i have some back problems in my Lower back. I began to have this before Resvaratrol but it seems to be Worse now that i have been taking this drug. Not sure if this is just my back getting worse due to excercise i am doing or the Drug is making it worse ???


Could be how you are sleeping too, a bad mattress will do that and make things get progressively worst and worst depending on how you position as you sleep. Are you doing a lot of sit-ups to strengthen the lower back? Those help with back pain. I don't see how resveratrol would contribute to that, but it sounds like it's progressively getting worst as it started before your resv use.



I will try the lower back excercise. but what about the all the JOINT adverse reaction that resveratrol is causing ??? i have been reading on this thread. I think mainly the back issue is due to way i sit at work and bad chairs i sit on that puts pressure on my back. but bad NEWS, i will have to go off Resveratrol for a while and see if that helps, just in case if that is what is making it even worse. what other back excersise is there ? I think Situps are just too hard for me to do cause that in itself will cause pain in my back.

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#93 nowayout

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:47 PM

what other back excersise is there ? I think Situps are just too hard for me to do cause that in itself will cause pain in my back.


Lie on your back on the floor (on something soft) with your lower legs resting on a couch or low bed. (Your thighs should be vertical and your hips and knees bent at 90 degrees.) When you are relaxed, your lower spine will be slightly arched away from the floor. Slowly contract your abdominals while trying to push your lower spine downwards to touch the floor. Do not lift your head or upper body. Keep for a couple of seconds, relax and repeat. Do everything slowly and controlled.

#94 TianZi

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:34 AM

My theory about this goes like this:

Most of the people here who are taking significant amounts of resveratrol are above the age of 30. Many of these people also exercise. Not coincidentally, this is the age when many people first start noticing age-related joint pain.

Most of the people who read this particular board have heard these accounts of resveratrol use causing joint pain. Some of them then attribute their joint pain to their use of resveratrol.

I'm unaware of any serious discussion regarding resveratrol causing joint pain that didn't start on these forums.

It follows that some of these accounts probably are the result of a "negative placebo effect" or mistaken attribution of causation.

With that said, it will be interesting to look for any such reported negative side effects in human studies testing the efficacy of resveratrol in improving exercise performance. I believe this sort of study has only been done with rats?

Edited by TianZi, 31 March 2009 - 11:35 AM.


#95 TianZi

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:42 AM

Another Joint question. I have been taking Res for about 6-7 weeks now and i have some back problems in my Lower back. I began to have this before Resvaratrol but it seems to be Worse now that i have been taking this drug. Not sure if this is just my back getting worse due to excercise i am doing or the Drug is making it worse ???


Could be how you are sleeping too, a bad mattress will do that and make things get progressively worst and worst depending on how you position as you sleep. Are you doing a lot of sit-ups to strengthen the lower back? Those help with back pain. I don't see how resveratrol would contribute to that, but it sounds like it's progressively getting worst as it started before your resv use.



I will try the lower back excercise. but what about the all the JOINT adverse reaction that resveratrol is causing ??? i have been reading on this thread. I think mainly the back issue is due to way i sit at work and bad chairs i sit on that puts pressure on my back. but bad NEWS, i will have to go off Resveratrol for a while and see if that helps, just in case if that is what is making it even worse. what other back excersise is there ? I think Situps are just too hard for me to do cause that in itself will cause pain in my back.


Try doing crunches on a swiss ball. A full sit-up is unnecessary as you cease to place much stress on your abs in the 2nd half of the movement.

Try taking a couple weeks of yoga. See if the stretching and strengthening exercises help you.

You can also try hiking up hills, or climbing stairs, done in moderation.

All of this may cause pain in your lower back initially, but in the long run should lead to less back pain as your core muscles become stronger. A better place to discuss this is on the Exercise Forum board.

#96 nowayout

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 01:05 PM

Most of the people here who are taking significant amounts of resveratrol are above the age of 30. Many of these people also exercise. Not coincidentally, this is the age when many people first start noticing age-related joint pain.


This is a valid concern, but while there may well be some of this, I think in many of the reports the joint pain is much more than the usual age-related or workout-related aches and pains. Some people have described theirs as severe and debilitating. In various cases, the affected individual had been exercising for years and was well accustomed to the ordinary age-related or workout-related aches before using resveratol. Some people suddenly got pain in lots of joints or tendons at the same time. That is not normal for age-related or workout-related pain.

Most of the people who read this particular board have heard these accounts of resveratrol use causing joint pain. Some of them then attribute their joint pain to their use of resveratrol. I'm unaware of any serious discussion regarding resveratrol causing joint pain that didn't start on these forums.


I only discovered these forums after I had joint pain and suspected the resveratrol. It is the first search result that comes up on google with the obvious keywords. I suspect the same goes for several others.

I have seen similar reports on several other forums.

I have seen several reports where pain flareups were synchronized with resveratrol use. People would stop, report that the pain improved, start resveratrol again and the pain returned, etc. (In some cases the pain never improved or improved very slowly.)

It is still possible that the pain is caused not by resveratrol but other ingredients or impurities in the resveratrol-containing supplements. However, several individuals have also reported pain from 99% resveratrol from reputable companies. The fact that many people use it without pain does not necessarily invalidate the link between resveratrol and joint pain - it may simply reflect differences in lifestyle or biochemistry.

I am as eager as you to see this side effect confrimed (or not) in animal human studies, as I am for a more definite explanation. (Several somewhat plausible ones exist.)

Edited by andre, 31 March 2009 - 01:06 PM.


#97 2tender

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 10:21 PM

Im convinced there is a correlation for some people regarding joint pain. It seems to be a "side effect" for some people. The overall effect on stamina and energy almost make enduring that "side" an option. There should be a supplemental remedy to offset this "side" dosing with Niacinamide has been discussed, as well as the time of dosing. I have switched to a 99% micronized version and seemingly experienced less joint pain.

#98 TianZi

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:21 AM

To rephrase the question posed at the end of my post above, are there any known human studies underway testing the efficacy of resveratrol in improving athletic performance? I'd have thought the mouse studies showing improved aerobic performance would have aroused interest in seeing how well this works in humans, and we do now have multiple human trials showing no adverse effects for resveratrol in humans, at least at the doses that have been used.

I'd think that if there is any real risk of resveratrol causing pain in the joints, that this would surface in such a study, assuming a large number of participants.

#99 Shay

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:29 PM

Is it possible that the resveratrol used in studies has been different in some way from the commercially available varieties?


To rephrase the question posed at the end of my post above, are there any known human studies underway testing the efficacy of resveratrol in improving athletic performance? I'd have thought the mouse studies showing improved aerobic performance would have aroused interest in seeing how well this works in humans, and we do now have multiple human trials showing no adverse effects for resveratrol in humans, at least at the doses that have been used.

I'd think that if there is any real risk of resveratrol causing pain in the joints, that this would surface in such a study, assuming a large number of participants.



#100 rhc124

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 04:07 AM

I have been a long time user of resveratrol in many different forms ( at one point 2gms a day). I started out with 50% about 2 years ago then moved to 98% and then moved to 98% microtized. Many of you long term members may remember my previous posts. I began to have joint problems not long after taking resveratrol, about 3 months. It started in the hips. A mild problem but noticable. Then moved to my shoulders, fingers, feet, calves and forearms. over many months. During this time I made many posts., which one can research. I tried many combinations during this period such as dropping all other supplements and only using 98% resveratrol. I made sure that that I waited for atleast 1 month on any conbination before I reported the results. Despite all my results, I still had joint/tendion pain, mostly joint pain. Many people on this board at the time claimed that the joint pain was a myth. Now many of those same people have experienced what I did. After ordering over $300 worth of 98% microtized I decided that it was best to drop resveratrol. My joint problems went away in about a month but I still had flar-ups for at least 2 or 3 months. After this period I did try resveratrol a couple of times and within a couple of days of taking it, at only a 300mg dose, I would start to have joint pain. There seems to be some type of lingering effect.

During my time taking resveartrol and the joint pain I was taking Coq 10 (50mg) and a multivitamin with nician (110mg), which many have talked about in this thread. I also took resveratrol for periods where I was not taking anything else. Neither made any difference in the joint pain.

All I can tell you guys is that the joint pain problems is very very real for some people. Something is going on and I hope that we find out what it is.

Recently I have started taking the 300mg microtized once a week without problems. I'm going to take it slow. I've got to do something with all that resveratrol in the freezer.

I encourage you to review my historical posts.

#101 maxwatt

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 08:53 AM

I have been a long time user of resveratrol in many different forms ( at one point 2gms a day). I started out with 50% about 2 years ago then moved to 98% and then moved to 98% microtized. Many of you long term members may remember my previous posts. I began to have joint problems not long after taking resveratrol, about 3 months. It started in the hips. A mild problem but noticable. Then moved to my shoulders, fingers, feet, calves and forearms. over many months. During this time I made many posts., which one can research. I tried many combinations during this period such as dropping all other supplements and only using 98% resveratrol. I made sure that that I waited for atleast 1 month on any conbination before I reported the results. Despite all my results, I still had joint/tendion pain, mostly joint pain. Many people on this board at the time claimed that the joint pain was a myth. Now many of those same people have experienced what I did. After ordering over $300 worth of 98% microtized I decided that it was best to drop resveratrol. My joint problems went away in about a month but I still had flar-ups for at least 2 or 3 months. After this period I did try resveratrol a couple of times and within a couple of days of taking it, at only a 300mg dose, I would start to have joint pain. There seems to be some type of lingering effect.

During my time taking resveartrol and the joint pain I was taking Coq 10 (50mg) and a multivitamin with nician (110mg), which many have talked about in this thread. I also took resveratrol for periods where I was not taking anything else. Neither made any difference in the joint pain.

All I can tell you guys is that the joint pain problems is very very real for some people. Something is going on and I hope that we find out what it is.

Recently I have started taking the 300mg microtized once a week without problems. I'm going to take it slow. I've got to do something with all that resveratrol in the freezer.

I encourage you to review my historical posts.


At what time of day do you take, or were you taking, resveratrol? There was a paper given at a conference, where researchers found resveratrol boosted NAD levels in mice, that there was a circadian variation in NAD levels, and that altering the timing of these variations caused problems for the mice. The levels were highest in the morning.

Increasing the NAD/NADH ratio is believed to underlie CR and several putative CR mimetics.

My own self-experiments would bear out taking resveratrol in the morning would not result in joint pain, where BID or evening administration would.

#102 nowayout

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:50 AM

At what time of day do you take, or were you taking, resveratrol? There was a paper given at a conference, where researchers found resveratrol boosted NAD levels in mice, that there was a circadian variation in NAD levels, and that altering the timing of these variations caused problems for the mice. The levels were highest in the morning.

Increasing the NAD/NADH ratio is believed to underlie CR and several putative CR mimetics.

My own self-experiments would bear out taking resveratrol in the morning would not result in joint pain, where BID or evening administration would.


Aren't mice nocturnal, though? Would a human NAD circadian rhythm necessarily agree with the mice's?

#103 maxwatt

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:39 PM

At what time of day do you take, or were you taking, resveratrol? There was a paper given at a conference, where researchers found resveratrol boosted NAD levels in mice, that there was a circadian variation in NAD levels, and that altering the timing of these variations caused problems for the mice. The levels were highest in the morning.

Increasing the NAD/NADH ratio is believed to underlie CR and several putative CR mimetics.

My own self-experiments would bear out taking resveratrol in the morning would not result in joint pain, where BID or evening administration would.


Aren't mice nocturnal, though? Would a human NAD circadian rhythm necessarily agree with the mice's?


The paper is not yet available, but I believe that was taken into account. When the paper is published we can study it further.

#104 nowayout

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:14 PM

... that altering the timing of these variations caused problems for the mice. The levels were highest in the morning.


Is anything yet available on what problems the mice had?

#105 maxwatt

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:28 PM

... that altering the timing of these variations caused problems for the mice. The levels were highest in the morning.


Is anything yet available on what problems the mice had?



The paper was to be published in Science on March 19, but I've yet to get access to it. One quote from the press release in E Science News

Research out of Bass' lab a few years ago showed a clear link between disruption of the circadian clock with the development of obesity and the metabolic syndrome in mammals. The new findings help explain, in part, the molecular activity underlying those pathologies, says Bass.


It deserves its own topic. I'm going to track down the paper.


Edit: I found the abstract, it was e-publshed, not in the magazine. They did not actually use resveratrol, which is known to alter NAD levels; they used mutant NAD defective mice. the abstract is HERE

Edited by maxwatt, 08 April 2009 - 06:46 PM.


#106 nowayout

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:22 PM

Interesting, so the mechanism of tendon pain may be simply related to a disrupted sleep pattern. I guess lack of sufficient stage 4 sleep could lead over time to lack of healing of everyday small injuries, which would snowball.

My sleep has certainly been terrible over the last year or so, so that could certainly explain, at least in part, my tendinitis, independent of whether resveratrol was the initial cause or not. Further support for this in my particular case is that when my doctor put me on low-dose amitriptylene, which repairs stage 4 sleep, my tendinitis quickly improved.

The interesting question for those suffering from resveratrol-related pain would be: Have you noticed any disruption of normal sleep during or preceding the time you started noticing pain?

#107 Matt

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:08 PM

If the lot of you are having problems with your tendons with resveratrol, then make sure you avoid fluoroquinolones (cipro, levaquin, avelox etc..) lol ;) Cipro destroyed multiple tendons and problems lasted 17 months. Although maybe not the same mechanism in causing tendinitis, if you're susceptible to it then maybe...

#108 LKeene

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 12:11 AM

Hi folks, first post here.

I'm a 38 year-old male who has recently started supplementing with resv (98% micronized). I've also noticed joint pain which is very unusual for me. It is located in my left hip and started aprroximately a few weeks after starting on the resv. I take ~280mg (1 scoop) of the micronized powder early in the morning mixed in with whey protein and milk. At the same time I take 500mg DMAE.

There is a very clear correlation between the onset of joint pain and the consumption of one...or both...of these supplements, I feel. Stop them and my joint pain goes away. Start them and in a few days I feel like an old man who needs a hip replacement. Actually, it's not THAT bad, but you get the idea. I haven't tried just one or the other, though. I'll try once a week dosing, maybe 600mg once a week.

Note: I also notice a very strong gasoline/acetone flavor to the powder when mixed as above (I haven't tried just the powder itself i.e. unmixed). Is this normal?

#109 maxwatt

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:33 AM

Hi folks, first post here.

I'm a 38 year-old male who has recently started supplementing with resv (98% micronized). I've also noticed joint pain which is very unusual for me. It is located in my left hip and started aprroximately a few weeks after starting on the resv. I take ~280mg (1 scoop) of the micronized powder early in the morning mixed in with whey protein and milk. At the same time I take 500mg DMAE.

There is a very clear correlation between the onset of joint pain and the consumption of one...or both...of these supplements, I feel. Stop them and my joint pain goes away. Start them and in a few days I feel like an old man who needs a hip replacement. Actually, it's not THAT bad, but you get the idea. I haven't tried just one or the other, though. I'll try once a week dosing, maybe 600mg once a week.

Note: I also notice a very strong gasoline/acetone flavor to the powder when mixed as above (I haven't tried just the powder itself i.e. unmixed). Is this normal?


Resveratrol of that purity should have no discernible odor. By itself, does it have an odor, or only when mixed with DMAE?

Read the Wikipedia entry on DMAE.

DMAE has an ammonia-like odor, which is perhaps what you are smelling. Resveratrol is sensitive to pH; in solution, a high pH converts trans-resveratrol to cis-resveratrol. Substances such as bleach cause resveratrol to visibly decompose. I suggest you stop mixing these together, and consider if DMAE is really likely to produce the effects you want. There certainly is not very much credible
evidence that it is beneficial.

#110 zorba990

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:58 PM

As an anecdote, I take about 1000-1500mg a day in home made liposomes.
About 3 weeks ago I created a small tear in my calf muscle -- was in too much of a hurry to
get out of the gym and doing single leg calf raises with a dumbbell way way too rapidly (about 4x my normal cadence).

I heard a pop. I thought, oh great I just tore my achilles. There was pain (about a 5) and I limped out
of the gym as the muscle seized up. Because I'm me I went straight to my friend the acupuncturist and
not to the hospital. She diagnosed a sprain but was concerned due to the size of the swelling (the muscle
shape was completely blunted). She said if its not getting better in a week and still cant see/feel the muscle shape then
I need a scan. A week later it was feeling well enough to attend a conference. Unfortunately, I think the serrapeptase I was taking then
induced a bruise in my ankle (there was no bruising in the first 10 days just swelling with no detectable heat).

So long story short (and relevance here) there was no tendon damage (in as much as not having a scan you
can tell that). It's healing well now and I'll be back to running in another 3 or 4 weeks I would guess (unless I
do something stupid again LOL)

So from my personal experience creating a condition that should be ripe for a tendon tear/strain if ever there was one
AND being on high dose TRes (98% powder in home made liposomes), the TRes did not create any kind of tendon
weakening. And I'm hoping it, along with Cissus, will help heal up the muscle that much faster.

Speaking of which, though, I've been wondering if its possible that TRes downregulates Myostatin. Myostatin blockers
may produce tendon issues if they work too well, according to this:
http://www.mda.org/r..._myostatin.html
and I have noticed significant strength increases use TRes.....

just a thought...

#111 stephen_b

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 08:27 PM

I would be interested in hearing whether 1-3 mg/day supplemental boron helped those experiencing joint pain on resveratrol, or conversely whether some already supplementing boron were feeling joint pain.

StephenB

Edited by stephen_b, 09 April 2009 - 08:27 PM.


#112 LKeene

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 01:27 PM

Hi folks, first post here.

I'm a 38 year-old male who has recently started supplementing with resv (98% micronized). I've also noticed joint pain which is very unusual for me. It is located in my left hip and started aprroximately a few weeks after starting on the resv. I take ~280mg (1 scoop) of the micronized powder early in the morning mixed in with whey protein and milk. At the same time I take 500mg DMAE.

There is a very clear correlation between the onset of joint pain and the consumption of one...or both...of these supplements, I feel. Stop them and my joint pain goes away. Start them and in a few days I feel like an old man who needs a hip replacement. Actually, it's not THAT bad, but you get the idea. I haven't tried just one or the other, though. I'll try once a week dosing, maybe 600mg once a week.

Note: I also notice a very strong gasoline/acetone flavor to the powder when mixed as above (I haven't tried just the powder itself i.e. unmixed). Is this normal?


Resveratrol of that purity should have no discernible odor. By itself, does it have an odor, or only when mixed with DMAE?

Read the Wikipedia entry on DMAE.

DMAE has an ammonia-like odor, which is perhaps what you are smelling. Resveratrol is sensitive to pH; in solution, a high pH converts trans-resveratrol to cis-resveratrol. Substances such as bleach cause resveratrol to visibly decompose. I suggest you stop mixing these together, and consider if DMAE is really likely to produce the effects you want. There certainly is not very much credible
evidence that it is beneficial.



Actually, it's not an odor but a flavor...and a very strong one at that. It's not the DMAE because I take that in tablet form. I've mixed the 98% powder in a whey shake and no doubt about it it's like swallowing an acetone-tinged vanilla milkshake. I recall someone else on the forums complaining of a gasoline-like flavor to the resv powder as well. No one else can taste this? If not, something is wonky here.

#113 2tender

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 10:13 PM

Where did you get it from? The Res. I take is in licaps there is no discernable odor and I dont recall any odor, as you describe in any of the previous supps Ive taken. Personally, I wouldnt take it unless it was from my current vendor, that provides a COA.

#114 LKeene

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 05:41 PM

Where did you get it from? The Res. I take is in licaps there is no discernable odor and I dont recall any odor, as you describe in any of the previous supps Ive taken. Personally, I wouldnt take it unless it was from my current vendor, that provides a COA.


Again, it's not an odor but a strong flavor. It's RevGenetics 98% micronized raw powder. I store it in the fridge (not sure if that's important to note).

#115 2tender

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:07 AM

Thanks for clarifying. It should be good, its just a new taste for you. I would trust it. Maybe try the licap version.

#116 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 01:33 AM

LKeene,

my wife says it's bitter, while I don't think it is... and others use it buccaly without an issue as well.

It is a novel flavor, however it's nothing compared to bulk 50% resveratrol taken without a capsule... try that one, and you will likely never try the 50% powder again...

Cheers
A

#117 unglued

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:28 AM

my wife says it's bitter, while I don't think it is... and others use it buccaly without an issue as well.


Then it's probably a genetic difference. For example, there are three known gene variations that determine whether the phenylthiocarbamide in broccoli, coffee, etc. tastes bitter. See
http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Taste

In all three known SNPs (places where genes in humans vary), I'm heterozygous (i.e., I inherited a different copy of each variant from each of my parents), which is supposed to mean that I can taste that bitter chemical. And sure enough, raw broccoli tastes less a little bitter to me while I like cooked broccoli, and I can't stand coffee without cream and sugar, just like my father, while two of his friends were convinced he just had to try it to discover the wonderful flavor he was missing. I'll bet if they all got their genome tested today, they would find out there was a simple objective reason for this difference of opinion. No sense in having a bitter arguing over bitterness, as though it were an objective reality rather than a quirk in the human senses that is known to vary within our species.

98% resveratrol does not taste especially bitter to me, so maybe the taste of that compound is governed by a different, less well studied gene than the one for phenylthiocarbamide.

For that matter, maybe the benefits and side effects are too, just as it's well established now that the correct dosage of a common blood thinning medication is dependent on certain specific genetic variants:
http://www.snpedia.c...ex.php/Warfarin

#118 maxwatt

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:27 PM

my wife says it's bitter, while I don't think it is... and others use it buccaly without an issue as well.


Then it's probably a genetic difference. For example, there are three known gene variations that determine whether the phenylthiocarbamide in broccoli, coffee, etc. tastes bitter. See
http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Taste

In all three known SNPs (places where genes in humans vary), I'm heterozygous (i.e., I inherited a different copy of each variant from each of my parents), which is supposed to mean that I can taste that bitter chemical. And sure enough, raw broccoli tastes less a little bitter to me while I like cooked broccoli, and I can't stand coffee without cream and sugar, just like my father, while two of his friends were convinced he just had to try it to discover the wonderful flavor he was missing. I'll bet if they all got their genome tested today, they would find out there was a simple objective reason for this difference of opinion. No sense in having a bitter arguing over bitterness, as though it were an objective reality rather than a quirk in the human senses that is known to vary within our species.

98% resveratrol does not taste especially bitter to me, so maybe the taste of that compound is governed by a different, less well studied gene than the one for phenylthiocarbamide.

For that matter, maybe the benefits and side effects are too, just as it's well established now that the correct dosage of a common blood thinning medication is dependent on certain specific genetic variants:
http://www.snpedia.c...ex.php/Warfarin


And maybe it is the resveratrol. I've had coarse and very bitter samples of 98% tested, and they were trans-resveratrol, with very low level of impurities. Other batches were fine powder with no discernible taste. Solvent residue? Perhaps. 85% alcohol is used for extraction, and often is re-used to save money. Speculation, but perhaps a small amount of a very bitter compound builds up in re-used ethanol flavoring the resveratrol, even though not present in very large amounts?

FWIW, coffee tastes bitter to me, but I like coffee, and often drink it black. Don't like raw broccoli though it is only faintly bitter to me. I remember as a child, though, it tasted very bitter, as did many other greens. Maybe some tastebuds died? Also, there was a recent paper mentioned in Science News: salt confounds the receptors for bitterness, making things taste sweeter. This is why some people put salt on grapefruit.

Edited by maxwatt, 14 April 2009 - 12:28 PM.


#119 krillin

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 04:24 AM

My sleep has certainly been terrible over the last year or so, so that could certainly explain, at least in part, my tendinitis, independent of whether resveratrol was the initial cause or not. Further support for this in my particular case is that when my doctor put me on low-dose amitriptylene, which repairs stage 4 sleep, my tendinitis quickly improved.

Here's a paper on amitriptyline's anti-pain mechanism.

Cephalalgia. 2000 Jul;20(6):603-10.
Amitriptyline reduces myofascial tenderness in patients with chronic tension-type headache.
Bendtsen L, Jensen R.
Department of Neurology, Glostrup Hospital, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. bendtsen@dadlnet.dk

The tricyclic anti-depressant amitriptyline is widely used in the treatment of chronic tension-type headache. The aim of the present study was to investigate whether the analgesic effect is caused by a reduction of muscle pain or by a general reduction of pain sensitivity. Thirty-three non-depressed patients with chronic tension-type headache were treated with amitriptyline 75 mg/day and with the highly selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor citalopram 20 mg/day in a 32-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled, three-way crossover study. At the end of each treatment period, actual headache intensity and pericranial myofascial tenderness were recorded, pressure pain detection and tolerance thresholds were measured in the finger and in the temporal region and the electrical pain threshold was measured at the labial commissure. Amitriptyline reduced tenderness and headache intensity significantly more than placebo (P=0.01 and P=0.04, respectively). The reduction in tenderness could be ascribed solely to the group of patients who responded to amitriptyline treatment by at least 30% reduction in headache while tenderness was unchanged in non-responders. Amitriptyline did not affect pressure or electrical pain thresholds at any of the examined locations. Citalopram had no significant effect on any of the examined parameters. These findings indicate that amitriptyline elicits its analgesic effect in chronic myofascial pain by reducing the transmission of painful stimuli from myofascial tissues rather than by reducing overall pain sensitivity. We suggest that this effect is caused by a segmental reduction of central sensitization in combination with a peripheral anti-nociceptive action.

PMID: 11075846

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#120 nowayout

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 10:52 AM

Here's a paper on amitriptyline's anti-pain mechanism.


So they are basically concluding that it reduces pain because it reduces pain. What am I missing? :)




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