49 replies to this topic

[nowayout]

A positive study on wine consumption and longevity in men. Interestingly, the most beneficial effect with respect to life expectancy was obtained at half a glass per day. Above that, the benefits started diminishing again. Those drinking only wine, and less than half a glass a day, lived some 2.5 years longer than those who drank beer and spirits, and almost five years longer than non-drinkers, said the study.

From http://jech.bmj.com/...h.2008.082198v1

Long-term wine consumption is related to cardiovascular mortality and life expectancy independently of moderate alcohol intake: the Zutphen Study
M T Streppel¹, M C Ocké², H C Boshuizen³, F J Kok¹ and D Kromhout<sup>1

1</sup> Division of Human Nutrition, Wageningen University, Netherlands;
² National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands;
³ National Institute for Public Healht and the Environment, Netherlands

Correspondence to:
E-mail: martinette.streppel@wur.nl

ABSTRACT

Background: Light to moderate alcohol intake lowers therisk of cardiovascular mortality, but whether thisprotective effect can be attributed to a specific type ofbeverage remains unclear. Moreover, little is known aboutthe effects of long-term alcohol intake on life expectancy.

Methods: The impact of long-term alcohol intake and types of alcoholic beverages consumed on cardiovascular mortality and life expectancy at age 50 was investigated in the Zutphen Study, a cohort of 1373 men born between 1900and 1920 and examined repeatedly between 1960 and2000. Hazard ratios (HRs) for total alcohol intake and alcohol from wine, beer and spirits were obtained from time dependent Cox regression models. Life expectancy at age 50was calculated from areas under survival curves.

Results: Long-term light alcohol intake, that is (20 g per day, compared with no alcohol, was strongly and inversely associated with cerebrovascular (HR 0.43, 95%CI 0.26 to 0.70), total cardiovascular (HR 0.70, 95% CI0.55 to 0.89) and all-cause mortality (HR 0.75, 95% CI0.63 to 0.91). Independent of total alcohol intake, long term wine consumption of, on average, less than half a glass per day was strongly and inversely associated with coronary heart disease (HR 0.61, 95% CI 0.41 to 0.89),total cardiovascular (HR 0.68, 95% CI 0.53 to 0.86) and all-cause mortality (HR 0.73, 95% CI 0.62 to 0.87). These results could not be explained by differences in socioeconomic status. Life expectancy was about 5 years longer in men who consumed wine compared with those who did not use alcoholic beverages.

Conclusion: Long-term light alcohol intake lowered cardiovascular and all-cause mortality risk and increased life expectancy. Light wine consumption was associated with 5 years longer life expectancy; however, more studies are needed to verify this result.

More details from http://health.yahoo....0430122614.html

The impact also depends on the exact amount drunk -- more than half a glass starts bringing life expectancy down again, according to researchers from Wageningen University in the Netherlands.

"Drinking wine was strongly associated with a lower risk of dying from coronary heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and death from all causes," said the study.

Effects varied, however: men who drink up to 20 grammes of any type of alcohol per day live for about two years longer than non-drinkers, while the length of time is slightly lesser for those drinking more than 20 grammes.

Those drinking only wine, and less than half a glass a day, lived some 2.5 years longer than those who drank beer and spirits, and almost five years longer than non-drinkers, said the study.


The study, published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, was based on research on some 1,373 men between 1960 and 2000. It did not draw conclusions for women.

The researchers studied how much alcohol they drank and what type, in an attempt to assess the impact of their drinking habits on cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, and from all causes.

They also tracked weight and diet and whether the men smoked.

The results held true regardless of socio-economic status, diet or lifestyle, it found.

[kismet]

What's the mechanism of action? Which substance in wine is responsible for the benefit?

[nowayout]

What's the mechanism of action? Which substance in wine is responsible for the benefit?

Very good question. This is the first study that I have seen that shows more benefit from wine than other sources of alcohol. Assuming the result proves repeatable, it seems probable that it is something in the wine apart from the alcohol that provides the benefit. Whatever this substance is, it is powerful stuff (an extra 5 years is not to be sneezed at) and the fact that less than half a glass per day was more beneficial than larger amounts should perhaps give pause to those who megadose on supplements like resveratrol.

[FunkOdyssey]

I personally doubt it has anything to do with resveratrol.

[nowayout]

Weird how someone merged the subjects. I don't agree with it. An entire recent thread was dedicated to a study of alcohol and women, and not merged with this thread. Why shouldn't the cited study on alcohol and men have its own thread as I originally posted it? I usually search on thread titles only, so I for one appreciate more specific titles.

Edited by andre, 07 May 2009 - 09:10 PM.

[VictorBjoerk]

The resveratrol amount is negligible in red wine compared to the real doses benefitting animals as has been written before. Since a generally good diet already prevents atherosclerosis, what is then the reason to drink red wine? The benefits that has been shown is in older people. Is that really more informative than for example the fact that fat old people tend to live longer than thin old people?

There is no reason from a medical point of view to drink alcohol when you are young and healthy to prevent future heart problems.

Also alcohol causes glycation and is bad from a cosmetic perspective, causing dilated blood vessels, dull skin etc...

regarding the POTENTIAL benefits, it is actually the ethanol itself that causes them, you could as well have a little shot of whiskey a day.

ds: A glass of wine a day isn't that bad, but I don't see at all why it should be considered "medicine"

Edited by VictorBjoerk, 08 May 2009 - 09:49 PM.

[kismet]

Victor, wine helped independently of alcohol content and decreased all-cause mortality (so maybe the articles shouldn't have been merged as I suppose Andre was more interested in the benefits unrelated to alcohol). Someone get the full paper and find out what they propose as a mechanism of action (I don't have access).

Edited by kismet, 08 May 2009 - 11:05 PM.

[pobuoy]

Take a look at an alcoholic's face and you can definitely see signs of aging. Other than abstaining you can limit your consumption or you can consume beverages with a lower alcohol content. Having your one or two beers with a meal could probably slow the ethyl alcohol's release into the bloodstream.

[nowayout]

The resveratrol amount is negligible in red wine compared to the real doses benefitting animals as has been written before. Since a generally good diet already prevents atherosclerosis, what is then the reason to drink red wine?

It lowers all-cause mortality, including from cancer and such. And no, a good diet is not enough to prevent cardiovascular aging and disease.

Also alcohol causes glycation and is bad from a cosmetic perspective, causing dilated blood vessels, dull skin etc...

One should not confuse moderate wine consumers with alcoholics. People can get obese by overeating oranges or consuming too much olive oil - that does not mean oranges or olive oil are bad from a cosmetic perspective.

regarding the POTENTIAL benefits, it is actually the ethanol itself that causes them, you could as well have a little shot of whiskey a day.

The point of the above study was that it contradicts this. It is something else, not (just) the ethanol. For this reason, I had posted the study under a different heading but some administrator erroneously (IMO) merged it with this thread.

A glass of wine a day isn't that bad, but I don't see at all why it should be considered "medicine"

Well, I guess it depends on whether you consider premature all-cause mortality to be a disease...

Edited by andre, 09 May 2009 - 07:03 PM.

[Matt]

I'm gonna have to look into the archives on the CRS email lists, but there was a study that was done where they looked at alcohol consumption in the context of a healthy diet and there was no protective effect found for cardiovascular disease. In the context of my own Calorie Restriction lifestyle I don't personally think there would be any benefit to consuming alcohol or red wine. Though some people think so, including Michael Rae who himself drinks red wine every day in addition to his CR.

http://www.caloriere...9228#msg-189228

Britton A, Marmot MG, Shipley M.
Who benefits most from the cardioprotective properties of alcohol
consumption--health freaks or couch potatoes?
J Epidemiol Community Health. 2008 Oct;62(10):905-8.
PMID: 18791048

ABSTRACT

Background: The cardioprotective properties of moderate alcohol consumption,
compared with abstinence or heavy drinking, are widely reported, but whether
the benefits are experienced equally by all moderate drinkers is less well
known.

Aims: To examine the association between average alcohol intake per week and
the incidence of fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction during 17 years
of follow-up for 9655 men and women without prevalent disease in the general
population; and to test whether the level of cardioprotection differs
according to subjects' other health behaviours (healthy, moderately healthy,
unhealthy) at entry to the study.

Method: A longitudinal, British civil service-based cohort study, baseline
in 1985-8.

Results: A significant benefit of moderate drinking compared with abstinence
or heavy drinking was found among those with poor health behaviours (little
exercise, poor diet and smokers). No additional benefit from alcohol was
found among those with the healthiest behaviour profile (3 hours of vigorous
exercise per week, daily fruit or vegetable consumption and non-smokers).

Conclusion: The cardioprotective benefit from moderate drinking does not
apply equally to all drinkers, and this variability should be emphasised in
public health messages.

Edited by Matt, 09 May 2009 - 07:11 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

The CR people I know that take red wine do so mainly for its fun--and find it more on the benign side rather than beneficial.

[frederickson]

It lowers all-cause mortality, including from cancer and such. And no, a good diet is not enough to prevent cardiovascular aging and disease.

i'm afraid this is an incredibly simplistic - and frankly incorrect - statement.

countless studies have shown that a diet high in vegetables/fruits and traditional whole foods in general have incredibly strong protective effects against cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc. further, newer studies have shown that markers of aging and disease (inflammatory cytokines, glucose sensitivity, etc.) are greatly improved by certain kinds of diets.

any benefits of very low red wine consumption (likely due to antioxidant activity) pale in comparison to a healthy overall diet. perhaps limited amounts of red wine can be a component of a healthy diet, but i agree with victor, drinking wine or any alcohol and expecting great health benefits is a mistake.

[nowayout]

And no, a good diet is not enough to prevent cardiovascular aging and disease.

i'm afraid this is an incredibly simplistic - and frankly incorrect - statement.

countless studies have shown that a diet high in vegetables/fruits and traditional whole foods in general have incredibly strong protective effects against cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.

Yeah right, sell that to my grandmother who suffered from high blood pressure and died of a heart attack despite a lifelong extremely healthy diet.

As you get older, you will find the hard way that no amount of virtue will stem the tide. Inevitably, no matter how good you try to be, things will happen to your health and you will not understand why. Welcome to the human condition.

Edited by andre, 11 May 2009 - 11:43 PM.

[frederickson]

And no, a good diet is not enough to prevent cardiovascular aging and disease.

i'm afraid this is an incredibly simplistic - and frankly incorrect - statement.

countless studies have shown that a diet high in vegetables/fruits and traditional whole foods in general have incredibly strong protective effects against cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.

Yeah right, sell that to my grandmother who suffered from high blood pressure and died of a heart attack despite a lifelong extremely healthy diet.

As you get older, you will find the hard way that no amount of virtue will stem the tide. Inevitably, no matter how good you try to be, things will happen to your health and you will not understand why. Welcome to the human condition.

a convincing argument cannot be made on the basis of individual, anecdotal evidence. is a healthy diet enough to prevent disease in everyone? of course not. no single lifestyle factor is neither completely necessary nor sufficient for preventing disease. there is no silver bullet, and if there was, it certainly would not be wine. i'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, but there were probably a number of factors involved beyond diet such as environmental exposures, genetic susceptibility, etc.

my point was that in general, a varied and healthy diet is a much better way to prevent chronic disease than wine.

[Michael]

my point was that in general, a varied and healthy diet is a much better way to prevent chronic disease than wine.

False dichotomy. A varied and healthy diet, based on the evidence, is one that includes a glass of red wine taken with a meal daily, along with fruits, vegetables, lean protein, low saturated fat, omega-3 fatty acids, etc. If I can fit this into my nutbar CR diet, it's a cinch to fit it into a general 'healthy lifestyle.'

Edited by Michael, 12 May 2009 - 02:38 PM.

[frederickson]

my point was that in general, a varied and healthy diet is a much better way to prevent chronic disease than wine.

False dichotomy. A varied and healthy diet, based on the evidence, is one that includes a glass of red wine taken with a meal daily, along with fruits, vegetables, lean protein, low saturated fat, omega-3 fatty acids, etc. If I can fit this into my nutbar CR diet, it's a cinch to fit it into a general 'healthy lifestyle.'

fair enough. but until there is evidence suggesting that wine offers benefits above and beyond those of other antioxidant/nutrient-dense foods - and there isn't - i remain unconvinced that there is any additional benefit to any form of alcohol that cannot be obtained from a diet without it.

Edited by frederickson, 13 May 2009 - 03:26 AM.

[nowayout]

I'm gonna have to look into the archives on the CRS email lists, but there was a study that was done where they looked at alcohol consumption in the context of a healthy diet and there was no protective effect found for cardiovascular disease.

I read the British study you cited. A possible limitation is that it only lasted for a window of 17 years, and therefore may have missed effects both on early mortality and late mortality. The Dutch study, on the other hand, had a much larger window (since 1960) and may therefore be more reliable. What is also suspicious is that the British study reports that the group with healthier behaviour was younger to start with, which would have made the shortness of the 17-year window even more problematic. In addition, the British study was not just on males like the Dutch study was. Also suspicious is that the British study does not find any difference between wine and other liquors, while the Dutch study finds a significant difference. So either they are not measuring the same parameter or one of them is wrong.

In any case, why would you recommend fruits and vegetables, when the evidence indicates that you can already get the same benefits from a diet that includes wine?

Edited by andre, 13 May 2009 - 12:43 PM.

[kismet]

fair enough. but until there is evidence suggesting that wine offers benefits above and beyond those of other antioxidant/nutrient-dense foods - and there isn't - i remain unconvinced that there is any additional benefit to any form of alcohol that cannot be obtained from a diet without it.

"Independent of total alcohol intake, long term wine consumption...." If true that makes your objection void. But maybe their conclusion is wrong (I don't know how they could separate those two), though.

[nowayout]

"Independent of total alcohol intake, long term wine consumption...."

(I don't know how they could separate those two), though.

Probably by keeping track of the quantities of different alcoholic beverages consumed. That would separate the two in cases where people consume more than one type.

[mbdrinker]

I agree that alcohol like smoking is evil and for that reason is sold everywhere but nontoxic ghb is prohibited. Elite does not want you to be smart or longliver. I have found no health benefits from daily consumpting 70 gr of cognac for 1 year, on the contrary - libido and mental clarity have decreased. Better take nootropics, niacin, psychotropics, ghb, forskolin than toxic alcohol