8 replies to this topic

[bacopa]

If we here at Imminist support super longevity and look at death as a blight, an insult to our humanity, than isn't there a contradiction of sorts where we are in danger of becoming our own religious/cult, in this case people who lean very strongly towards absolute freedom to do what we want pertaining to life extension and our right to life as a sacred thing unto itself? Couldn't a religious zealot accuse us of being ourselves religious in our own right, exclusive and intellectually headstrong mired only in our own ideological belief systems like the idea that death=oblivion. People could easily point the finger at us and say those guys are bunch of headstrong frat boys whose mascot is an hourglass while commercialy preaching ideas of conquering death as if it were an opressive political force when in reality it is a natural affect of being alive that does not discriminate at all. I'm playing devils advocate here because I'm just as adament about this cause as anyone else, but it is interesting to see how some people might view organizations such as ours as out of touch with reality and the traditions of the past ideologies. Now there are a whole range of people here from top scientists in the field to casual hangers on/writers like myself and I love this site and respect it dearly. So how can we continue to keep our head above ground so to speak without feeling we are in danger of becomine a whining bunch of generation Xers who don't want to die! What would a war hero say [lol]

[immortalitysystems.com]

I don't care what people think, i want to have the choice to not grow old and die!!!

There must be an constitutional amendmend, a la "the persuit of happiness" as an analignable right.

The right to persue youthfulnes and immortality.

That proposition should be on the next ballot in every state. Let's start collecting signatures ASAP!

Alfred

[Lazarus Long]

You might want to reference this thread Alfred.

Who knew it could be so easy?

[cyberchrist]

I don't care what people think, i want to have the choice to not grow old and die!!!

There must be an constitutional amendmend, a la "the persuit of happiness" as an analignable right.
                   
                The right to persue youthfulnes and immortality.

That proposition should be on the next ballot in every state. Let's start collecting signatures ASAP!

Alfred

Shall we call it "The Fear of Death" Amendment?

[Jace Tropic]

Good stuff, Devon. You’re always thinking philosophically—the best way to think.

There is one fundamental difference between many religions and memetics. Religions try to control you. Memes set you free, and may Truth be the ultimate arbiter.

[cyberchrist]

Religions try to control you. Memes set you free, and may Truth be the ultimate arbiter.

I have to take issue with both assumptions here.

Religions do not exert any more control on one's life than you allow it to. Buddhism for example, is widely considered a religion, but I view it more as a way of life than a rigorous orthodox cult that tries to control you. Zen Buddhism is closer to a philosophy than a religion.

Perhaps you are thinking of Western Religions? If so, you may want to qualify your statement.

Memes are tools. They can be used to set one free, or they can enslave, perhaps even more so than any religion can. A meme to me is something like a cultural icon (the American Flag, for example), fashions (miniskirts vs. burquas), popular songs that you find yourself humming (think of commercial jingles here), and so on. It may all seem harmless, but a meme is essentially a virus of the mind and of ideas. Suddenly you find yourself not minding things such as cursing around you, because you heard it so much in the movies. Or you may not mind the fact that the vending machine at work does not sell anything except soft drinks, because you have seen enough commercials that tell you that Coca-Cola is ok and that hip people drink it. Or you may look at your car in the driveway, 10 years old and sturdy, and lament the fact that you don't have a new car because the Lexus commercial says that people that truly want to show that they care for others during Christmas will find a witty way to tell their loved one that they have a brand-new Lexus in the driveway. THOSE are memes by every definition of the word.

Wanna see memes at work? Watch prime time television and see if you can record how many concepts and ideas you are being feed within a one-hour period. Then do the research and see how many of those ideas are logical and beneficial to you.

[Lazarus Long]

Wanna see memes at work? Watch prime time television and see if you can record how many concepts and ideas you are being feed within a one-hour period. Then do the research and see how many of those ideas are logical and beneficial to you.

This is a reasonable measure and a good example.

You want to see how a meme fails and can even back fire, don't buy the products and even boycott on principle all subversive uses of advertising. Oh but that is right we live in a consumerist theocracy, consumption is obligatory sacrifice and I just proposed heresy.

[Jace Tropic]

CC, perhaps we’ve mangled our definitions. Memetics as a whole is a process. Religions are rules. I’m not concerned with unhelpful memes. Ultimately they won’t help—the ones that do will have adapted; hence, “… may Truth be the ultimate arbiter.” Religions don’t adapt. Adaptation means survival. If you think ZB is philosophy, so you’ve qualified it as such; thus irrelevant.

[bacopa]

Our American consumerist culture, a meme? irritates me as well, particularly because it seems to be a dumbed down substitute for any real heady intellectual aspirations. Instead of having people partake in more interesting or thoughtful activities Americans instead consume large quantities of mostly useless junk at consumerist havens, like malls. I firmly believe that if it weren't for useless materialism and people's obsession with it than this could be a much more relaxed and happy world. Consumerism causes insurmountable stress and annoyance as one is dragged out of the privacy of one's own home and into artificial assembly line consumer institutions.
It infringes on my mental privacy having to go out to malls and buy useless items. I'd rather I live in a commune and share clothes than having to be confined to shopping in a Gap, or Old Navy for more than a few minutes. I live near Harvard Square which used to be a haven for artists and students, now it's become a strip mall, a consumerist trap that caters to an urban hip teenager. Also our society seems to move too fast and is too stressed out in general.