39 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

The best thing I've found for anxiety is intense squats a couple times a week (or trap bar deadlifts). They are extremely unpleasant to do,but takes the nervous energy right out of me.

Just a sample of what I had: I would get anxiety if I ate with other people, especially at a restaurant. I was concerned I would throw up (and often would). Anxiety is almost completely gone now. It's been 10 years

[Lufega]

I'm seriously going to try the banana peel tea as an antidepressant...I'll let ya'll know my results. In more interested in the causes of anxiety. So far, it seems that low norepinephrine leads to epinephrine dominance and this leads to the anxiety we know. While NE also activates the fight or flight, it doesn't act on B2 receptors. B2 are what propranolol block so I think Epi. is really the bad guy here not NE. It's all very confusing.

This is what I think happens, at least in my case. Low NE leads to E dominance and also to low BP. Low BP activates epineprhine further, which explains the "attacks" you feel throughout the day. Today , I was taking butcher's broom all day. I have low BP which leads to low cerebral perfusion and possible adrenergic activation. BB causes constriction of arteries raising BP. While on BB, I was more alert, sharper, processed info. better and had less anxiety. Could be placebo as it is the first day. We'll see if these results repeat. I noticed that after 4-5 hours, the effect of BB decreased, my BP dropped and I again felt brain dead and anxious. 20-30 minutes after another dose, anxiety went away and I felt fine.

You might have low NE, but it might be a separate issue that causes your anxiety. Do you have trouble with concentration? Do you sweat very little? Dialated pupils? Maybe you do have low NE if so.

If what you want is to raise NE, then eating banana peels is kind of ridiculous to be honest. Do you even know how well absorbed NE is or what its halflife is? A big spike of NE is the last thing in the universe someone with anxiety problems wants.

I think that anxiety is more often likely due to broken glutamate system, perhaps problems with synthesyzing glutamine or else overactive glutamate system kind of driving your brain in overdrive in some areas. Of course, that's just sort of speculation, and like I said I am guessing there's a hundred potential causes. That, or not enough phenylethylamine or some other trace amine. I can't tell you how completely calm and impervious I feel on PEA and deprenyl. Only problem is it seems impossible to dose it just right so that you get the good effects without risking killing yourself.

If you do want to raise NE, the best thing to take is EGCG (sp?), a COMT inhibitor, or better yet wellbutrin. I can feel the NE pulsing and I get very irritable when I take EGCG but that's in addition to wellbutrin which I already take. The vast majority of the action of wellbutrin comes because it ups NE dramatically. It helps me with concentration but I find it makes me extremely anxious if I take too much, and my guess is that you will go through the roof. No one takes wellbutrin for anxiety relief, that's for sure.

I agree that there are a million causes of anxiety but the mechanism for producing the anxiety physiologically, is the same. If we can figure it out, we can also find points where we can intervene with supplementation. Oh, and by the way, the banana peel tea worked very well for depression. If did reduce the anxiety quite a bit but I am in a calm, but happy mood. I'll keep taking it to rule out a placebo effect.

[bgwithadd]

Well, maybe you are onto something, though I still don't see why that would work (unless you have ADD maybe). Anyway, good luck and keep us posted.

[desperate788]

I'm seriously going to try the banana peel tea as an antidepressant...I'll let ya'll know my results. In more interested in the causes of anxiety. So far, it seems that low norepinephrine leads to epinephrine dominance and this leads to the anxiety we know. While NE also activates the fight or flight, it doesn't act on B2 receptors. B2 are what propranolol block so I think Epi. is really the bad guy here not NE. It's all very confusing.

This is what I think happens, at least in my case. Low NE leads to E dominance and also to low BP. Low BP activates epineprhine further, which explains the "attacks" you feel throughout the day. Today , I was taking butcher's broom all day. I have low BP which leads to low cerebral perfusion and possible adrenergic activation. BB causes constriction of arteries raising BP. While on BB, I was more alert, sharper, processed info. better and had less anxiety. Could be placebo as it is the first day. We'll see if these results repeat. I noticed that after 4-5 hours, the effect of BB decreased, my BP dropped and I again felt brain dead and anxious. 20-30 minutes after another dose, anxiety went away and I felt fine.

You might have low NE, but it might be a separate issue that causes your anxiety. Do you have trouble with concentration? Do you sweat very little? Dialated pupils? Maybe you do have low NE if so.

If what you want is to raise NE, then eating banana peels is kind of ridiculous to be honest. Do you even know how well absorbed NE is or what its halflife is? A big spike of NE is the last thing in the universe someone with anxiety problems wants.

I think that anxiety is more often likely due to broken glutamate system, perhaps problems with synthesyzing glutamine or else overactive glutamate system kind of driving your brain in overdrive in some areas. Of course, that's just sort of speculation, and like I said I am guessing there's a hundred potential causes. That, or not enough phenylethylamine or some other trace amine. I can't tell you how completely calm and impervious I feel on PEA and deprenyl. Only problem is it seems impossible to dose it just right so that you get the good effects without risking killing yourself.

If you do want to raise NE, the best thing to take is EGCG (sp?), a COMT inhibitor, or better yet wellbutrin. I can feel the NE pulsing and I get very irritable when I take EGCG but that's in addition to wellbutrin which I already take. The vast majority of the action of wellbutrin comes because it ups NE dramatically. It helps me with concentration but I find it makes me extremely anxious if I take too much, and my guess is that you will go through the roof. No one takes wellbutrin for anxiety relief, that's for sure.

You say anxiety may be caused by glutamate system. So what to do to fix glutamate system? Taking glutamic acid supplement if there is any, or eating foods high in glutamic acid?

[bgwithadd]

No, that will cause brain damage. You want an antagonist for glutamate system like magnesium or memantine, not agonist, if anything. It's not easy to get good results from tinkering ith it directly, though.

[bigsend]

I have bad anxiety too (just today bordered on a panic attack) and I've tried all of the recommended supplements here, and for the most part they do not make a difference. I see you take bacopa, I would say that is one of the most effective anti-anxiety supplements I have ever used, and it begins working at the first or second day of use. It is really remarkable. Other herbs that helped me are cissus and ashwagandha. I think they all inhibit cortisol.

Another supplement that works but is expensive is phosphatidyl serine (400-800mg/day).

Green tea can give me pretty bad anxiety, do you drink it often? There was a discussion on the topic recently.

The best method I have to kill anxiety (besides alcohol) is to have a sauna session. I come out feeling much more centered and peaceful.

[delmet]

I am very much in the same boat as you are. I have anxiety running in my family (grandfather, uncle, and 3 cousins from my mother's side all have/had it).

First of all, you CAN get rid of it. That is not to say it won't come back, but you can be completely anxiety free, so don't lose hope. I know it is hard to believe that when you are feeling as you are, but it will get better.

My anxiety was much like yours, very physical. The first time it was triggered by a panic attack, when I was 24, I thought I was food poisoned, and completely floored. After that I was dizzy for months, I had no idea what the hell was wrong with me. I had difficulty concentrating, etc. I went for and MRI even. Of course they found nothing. At that time I had just graduated from college, and there were some changes in my life, so perhaps that is what triggered it. I lived like that for about a year, but meanwhile I found a job, moved to sunny California, and that all helped. My anxiety went away... Until I moved to Holland, and one winter, around the age of 30, when I had my first kid, it came back, and for a much longer time. I dealt with it for 3-4 years, until I moved back to sunnier California. Obviously the short days of winter were not helping. Unfortunately when your brain goes in a cycle of anxiety, it is not so easy to snap out of it. In my case, exercise helped a lot. It is good to do some competitive exercise where you can put your energies to get better. It takes your focus from the anxiety (which feeds on itself), and puts it into something more constructive. It is good to have something that will occupy your time and energies other than the anxiety. I think this is essential.

That being said, I still had some level of anxiety until recently. It would come and go, and it wasn't nearly as bad as what I had in Holland (some days I could hardly get out of the house then). But recently I started the following regiment, for general health, but it also not only completely killed my anxiety, it also drove up my sex drive considerably. All of these things are safe and most probably good for you (some provably so).

1. 3mg of melatonin an hour before bed
2. Lots of high quality unprocessed cacao throughout the day (powder or nibs). This has small amount of caffeine in it, but that doesn't effect me (coffee does).
3. Pycnogenol
4. Magnesium
5. Niacin
6. Vitamin C
7. Omega 3 (fish oil etc.)
8. Multivitamin
9. CoQ10
10. Whey protein

If you want to try a subset of these things, I would go with the top 4, as those are the most likely candidates. In my case I think cacao and melatonin are the two things that work. I haven't tested this theory though. But think about this, if you physically feel well, you eat well, sleep well, and are in good shape, then what is there to feel anxious about? You are feeling anxious because you are feeling anxious. You just need to break the cycle for a while, and you will be just fine. And again, I cannot overemphasize the importance of exercising. Something physical that you can pour your energies into.

If you are going to supplement, buy it from a good source. I get things from iherb.com but there are other good sources out there. If you ingest crappy supplements, it is going to do you more harm than good.


And by the way, your breathlessness is most probably because you are hyperventilating, which happens without you realizing it. It used to happen to me a lot for a while. Don't worry about it, it can't hurt you.

[Elana]

Thanks for the subsequent replies everyone. I haven't been getting email updates anymore about replies, hence why it's been a while since I've checked the thread.

I too have gotten my supplements from iherb.com, seems like a good place

I will look into your suggestions, thanks. And I agree the sunshine helps big time. I live in Chicago and our winters are pretty long and dreary. I always tend to do better on sunny summer days. (Don't get me started on the light therapy and stuff I have tried).

[.fonclea.]

Nothing is better than natural things.


Sauna, yoga, sport, swimming, may be addapt your diet, relaxation, reflexology, i did !

Supplements are just too chimical for me, once you got some, you are addicted, not physiologicaly but psycologically.

[malbecman]

Personally, I find cocoa powder not good in large amounts for my anxiety, most likely due to the theobromine. It definitely affects me differently than caffeine. Unprocessed cacoa, I have not tried.

I also find Vitamin D helpful in the winter, esp. to make up for the lack of sunshine.

Finally, deep belly breaths, practicing mindfullness throughout the day and meditation has been the most effective of all of these for me.

I am very much in the same boat as you are. I have anxiety running in my family (grandfather, uncle, and 3 cousins from my mother's side all have/had it).

First of all, you CAN get rid of it. That is not to say it won't come back, but you can be completely anxiety free, so don't lose hope. I know it is hard to believe that when you are feeling as you are, but it will get better.

My anxiety was much like yours, very physical. The first time it was triggered by a panic attack, when I was 24, I thought I was food poisoned, and completely floored. After that I was dizzy for months, I had no idea what the hell was wrong with me. I had difficulty concentrating, etc. I went for and MRI even. Of course they found nothing. At that time I had just graduated from college, and there were some changes in my life, so perhaps that is what triggered it. I lived like that for about a year, but meanwhile I found a job, moved to sunny California, and that all helped. My anxiety went away... Until I moved to Holland, and one winter, around the age of 30, when I had my first kid, it came back, and for a much longer time. I dealt with it for 3-4 years, until I moved back to sunnier California. Obviously the short days of winter were not helping. Unfortunately when your brain goes in a cycle of anxiety, it is not so easy to snap out of it. In my case, exercise helped a lot. It is good to do some competitive exercise where you can put your energies to get better. It takes your focus from the anxiety (which feeds on itself), and puts it into something more constructive. It is good to have something that will occupy your time and energies other than the anxiety. I think this is essential.

That being said, I still had some level of anxiety until recently. It would come and go, and it wasn't nearly as bad as what I had in Holland (some days I could hardly get out of the house then). But recently I started the following regiment, for general health, but it also not only completely killed my anxiety, it also drove up my sex drive considerably. All of these things are safe and most probably good for you (some provably so).

1. 3mg of melatonin an hour before bed
2. Lots of high quality unprocessed cacao throughout the day (powder or nibs). This has small amount of caffeine in it, but that doesn't effect me (coffee does).
3. Pycnogenol
4. Magnesium
5. Niacin
6. Vitamin C
7. Omega 3 (fish oil etc.)
8. Multivitamin
9. CoQ10
10. Whey protein

If you want to try a subset of these things, I would go with the top 4, as those are the most likely candidates. In my case I think cacao and melatonin are the two things that work. I haven't tested this theory though. But think about this, if you physically feel well, you eat well, sleep well, and are in good shape, then what is there to feel anxious about? You are feeling anxious because you are feeling anxious. You just need to break the cycle for a while, and you will be just fine. And again, I cannot overemphasize the importance of exercising. Something physical that you can pour your energies into.

If you are going to supplement, buy it from a good source. I get things from iherb.com but there are other good sources out there. If you ingest crappy supplements, it is going to do you more harm than good.


And by the way, your breathlessness is most probably because you are hyperventilating, which happens without you realizing it. It used to happen to me a lot for a while. Don't worry about it, it can't hurt you.