• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Sunday Evening Update March 22nd, 6pm eastern, 2200 GMT


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:48 PM


Caloric restriction is often said to be the surest way to maintain health and the best lifestyle to potentially extend human lifespan. How does it work? Why isn't everyone doing it? Are any CR mimetics on the way? These and many other questions will be asked and answered by this week's guest on the Sunday Evening Update - Dr. Luigi Fontana of the Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis.

Attached Files



#2 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:04 PM

Questions for Dr. Fontana:

Do you practice CR? If so, do you have any tips on getting started?

What are your thoughts on alternate-day fasting (aka intermittent fasting) and variations thereof?

#3 Johan

  • Guest, F@H
  • 472 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:04 PM

I have an inorganic chemistry exam the following morning, so I may not be able to attend the whole interview. I'll try to ask my questions early.

#4 brokenportal

  • Life Member, Moderator
  • 7,046 posts
  • 589
  • Location:Stevens Point, WI

Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:27 AM

Interesting, I guess I might ask him if he uses CR to try to live long enough for therapies that will create indefinite lifespans to get here.

Ill try to promote the show again, if anybody wants to help me then let me know. Ive developed a few effective strategies and we could always use more strategy ideas. We'll go into some CR forums and try some things.

#5 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:03 AM

Four Questions for Fontana:

- (#1) We have read the recent news by your colleagues Takashi and Imai at Washington University regarding circadian rhythm, NAD levels, and SIRT1. In your opinion, what is the optimal daily routine in food/exercise and any supportive supplements (resveratrol, niacinamide, etc.) to maximum overall health and longevity? I guess just outline for us what would be your ideal 24 or 48/72 hr routine based on w/e variation you think is necessary.

NAD/NADH Ratio, Nampt, SIRT1 - regulate the body's internal clock
http://www.scienceda...90319142401.htm

- (#2) Based on this study, how should a person re-regulate their internal clock or deal with problems like insomnia or jet lag?

- (#3 extension of prior question asked above) What is your opinion of CR, IF and protein on/off days (intermittent protein use to increase intracellular autophagy) as the best approach to diet? What should the total diet composition be in terms of fats/carbs/protein?

- (#4) What's your take on HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)? Is sustained endurance runs better for overall health? What is the best exercise/workout routine?

Edited by prophets, 20 March 2009 - 05:37 AM.


#6 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:29 AM

- Calorie Restriction has very good protective effects against diabetes, stroke, heart disease, cancer etc.. Do you see any potential risks from calorie restriction such as infectious disease. And are you looking into studying CR's effects on the immune system in humans

#7 Johan

  • Guest, F@H
  • 472 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:50 AM

I've posted about the upcoming interview on my blog, so that might get a few more people to watch.

In case I have to leave before the interview is over, I have a question for Dr. Fontana:
- In your papers on the role of protein intake and IGF-1 in CR, you suggest that the effects of CR might only be experienced if one takes care to keep one's protein intake low. What is your current position on that? Has there been any new research to change your opinon?

#8 JLL

  • Guest
  • 2,192 posts
  • 161

Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:49 AM

What are your thoughts on alternate-day fasting (aka intermittent fasting) and variations thereof?


I would like this answered too. Specifically, what does he think about the claim that in many IF studies the animals are also CR'd because they simply eat less when food availability is restricted? What are the benefits of IF without any CR?

#9 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:08 PM

- Do you think coffee is healthy? It is the most widely consumed beverage in US, it contains acrylamide, etc.

#10 David Dryden

  • Guest
  • 1 posts
  • 0

Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:38 PM

Question for Dr. Fontana:

I have been practicing calorie restriction, following guidelines of the CR Society and the book The CR Way, for about 22 months now. My primary care physician and now a hematologist are concerned about my low white blood cell count, which gets into the range of 2.17 when I am diligently restricting calories (BMI around 18.5) , and rises into the low 3.x range when I am unable to comply with the CR regimen (BMI around 20). Low end of normal for WBC is considered around 4.0. Prior to CR, my WBC hovered around 4.0, possibly due to my Sjogren's Syndrome.

I know that anecdotally CR practicioners report low WBC and other blood parameter changes. I have explained to my hematologist that low WBC is expected in CR (and is even seen by some as a biomarker of CR), and have pointed her to some of your papers. What appears to be lacking in the literature is a concise peer-reviewed paper that draws on the work with long-term CRed patients to advise physicians of roughly what to expect in a CRed patient. With growing numbers of CR practitioners, the social utility of such a paper is rising. In the absence of such a paper, I may wind up joining the ranks of CRers who've had bone marrow biopsies because their docs are worried about low WBC of unknown origin.

Have I missed a paper of yours that could serve this physician education purpose?

#11 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:50 PM

addendum to my other 4 questions:


- How do you suggest a person balance the in-take of antioxidants, vitamins, etc. with exercise/food so that you do not overstimulate/overload (harm) the body?


- which small molecules (OTC/prescription medication) do you recommend (if any) to increase endogenous chaperone mediated autophagy and increase the LAMP-2a receptor activation (an issue noted by Ana-Marie Cuervo, etc.)?

Edited by prophets, 20 March 2009 - 05:52 PM.


#12 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:57 PM

I plan on attending, awesome guest for ImmInst Mind, we have many CR members here--as it is still the only thing known to extend life :) !

#13 kenj

  • Guest
  • 747 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Copenhagen.

Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:20 PM

Yes, I'm looking forward to this one, too. Super cool questions to a super cool researcher. :-)

#14 s123

  • Director
  • 1,347 posts
  • 1,053
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 22 March 2009 - 01:42 PM

Do you want to become a peer-reviewer for HJB? We will only send you at most two papers a year.

#15 VictorBjoerk

  • Member, Life Member
  • 1,763 posts
  • 91
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 22 March 2009 - 03:20 PM

Questions for Fontana:

1.What about the immune system when doing calorie restriction, how does it affect wound healing etc?

2. What are your opinions about intermittent fasting(eg eating every other day)?

3. What about CR and autoimmune diseases,allergies etc?

#16 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 22 March 2009 - 09:17 PM

Pulled from this ImmInst thread, and from the Calorie Restriction Society digest listserve:


- (#1) We have read the recent news by your colleagues Takashi and Imai at Washington University regarding circadian rhythm, NAD levels, and SIRT1. In your opinion, what is the optimal daily routine in food/exercise and any supportive supplements (resveratrol, niacinamide, etc.) to maximum overall health and longevity? I guess just outline for us what would be your ideal 24 or 48/72 hr routine based on w/e variation you think is necessary.

NAD/NADH Ratio, Nampt, SIRT1 - regulate the body's internal clock
http://www.scienceda...90319142401.htm

- (#2) Based on this study, how should a person re-regulate their internal clock or deal with problems like insomnia or jet lag?

- (#3 extension of prior question asked above) What is your opinion of CR, IF and protein on/off days (intermittent protein use to increase intracellular autophagy) as the best approach to diet? What should the total diet composition be in terms of fats/carbs/protein?

- (#4) What's your take on HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)? Is sustained endurance runs better for overall health? What is the best exercise/workout routine?

- (#5) Calorie Restriction has very good protective effects against diabetes, stroke, heart disease, cancer etc.. Do you see any potential risks from calorie restriction such asinfectious disease. And are you looking into studying CR's effects on the immune system in humans?

- (#6) In your papers on the role of protein intake and IGF-1 in CR, you suggest that the effects of CR might only be experienced if one takes care to keep one's protein intake low. What is your current position on that? Has there been any new research to change your opinon?

- (#7) What do you think about the claim that in many IF studies the animals are also CR'd because they simply eat less when food availability is restricted? What are the benefits of IF without any CR?

- (#8) Do you think coffee is healthy? It is the most widely consumed beverage in US, it contains acrylamide, etc.

- (#9) I have been practicing calorie restriction, following guidelines of the CR Society and the book The CR Way, for about 22 months now. My primary care physician and now a hematologist are concerned about my low white blood cell count, which gets into the range of 2.17 when I am diligently restricting calories (BMI around 18.5) , and rises into the low 3.x range when I am unable to comply with the CR regimen (BMI around 20). Low end of normal for WBC is considered around 4.0. Prior to CR, my WBC hovered around 4.0, possibly due to my Sjogren's Syndrome.

I know that anecdotally CR practitioners report low WBC and other blood parameter changes. I have explained to my hematologist that low WBC is expected in CR (and is even seen by some as a biomarker of CR), and have pointed her to some of your papers. What appears to be lacking in the literature is a concise peer-reviewed paper that draws on the work with long-term CRed patients to advise physicians of roughly what to expect in a CRed patient. With growing numbers of CR practitioners, the social utility of such a paper is rising. In the absence of such a paper, I may wind up joining the ranks of CRers who've had bone marrow biopsies because their docs are worried about low WBC of unknown origin.

Have I missed a paper of yours that could serve this physician education purpose?

- (#10) How do you suggest a person balance the in-take of antioxidants, vitamins, etc. with exercise/food so that you do not overstimulate/overload (harm) the body?


- (# 11) Which small molecules (OTC/prescription medication) do you recommend (if any) to increase endogenous chaperone mediated autophagy and increase the LAMP-2a receptor activation (an issue noted by Ana-Marie Cuervo, etc.)?



- (#12) I and a colleague here in Rochester, NY, who is also in Dr. Fontana's
study, were tested at WUSTL by Dr. Fontana in 2004. If possible, we'd
like to know when we'll be
retested, approximately. Also, another Rochesterian, Curt Fey, was
added to the study more recently; will he be invited at the same time?
That would be very pleasant.

We all regret that there will be no CR Society meeting this summer,
and hope for better things to come.

Yours sincerely,

-- Saul

- (#13) What about the immune system when doing calorie restriction, how does it affect wound healing etc?


-(#14) What are your opinions about intermittent fasting(eg eating every other day)?


- (#15 ) What about CR and autoimmune diseases, allergies etc?

- (#16) Do you practice CR? If so, do you have any tips on getting started?

-(#17) What are your thoughts on alternate-day fasting (aka intermittent fasting) and variations thereof?

-(18) Do you use CR to try to live long enough for therapies that will create indefinite lifespans?

#17 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 22 March 2009 - 09:19 PM

The above post I created to compile all the questions I've so far seen for Dr. Fontana, any more that appear within this thread I'll edit into the above post in their proper order. Other than these questions people can also attempt to ask questions live-time in the ustream chat box ;)

#18 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 22 March 2009 - 10:15 PM

The show is live right now if you want to come listen, its very good. If you missed it, check it out later ;)

#19 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 22 March 2009 - 11:15 PM

good discussion. thank you Fontana & Mind.

#20 Mind

  • Topic Starter
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:07 PM

Link to the video here.

He does not practice CR, although he hinted at the fact that his caloric intake is lower than average. He also eats a "healthy balanced diet".

The most interesting part of the interview I thought, was Dr. Fontana's insistence that we just don't have enough hard data to say how good CR is for human health or longevity. He said it is obvious that going from obese to "thin" is good for health. He said the data for the next step (from healthy/thin/good-diet/in-good-physical-shape person to CR person) is basically non-existent. He could not say if CR would benefit someone who is already slim and in "good shape".

He cautioned the audience several times about comparing mice CR data to humans (good thing we have primate studies as well).

He said that most of the CR gains in mice were from lower IGF1, but this is not the mechanism in humans. He said limiting protein (and simple/refined carbs) was a way to lower IGF1 in humans.

#21 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:45 PM

He said that most of the CR gains in mice were from lower IGF1, but this is not the mechanism in humans. He said limiting protein (and simple/refined carbs) was a way to lower IGF1 in humans.



this was by far the most important take away from the discussion for me. this issue needs to be looked into very carefully. we need to know how the CR diets of monkeys that have experienced positive lifespan/function gains compare in the areas of IGF-1 / protein and total calorie consumption.


I think the arguments on this forum across multiple threads that suggest "excess protein = bad" and "excess protein in take = reduced autophagy" (or increased AD/PD/Huntington's) may have a lot of credence to it.

rgds,

-pro

#22 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 23 March 2009 - 11:53 PM

I missed it, but I'll definitely be watching/listening to the recording of it sometime this week. Thanks for doing the interview, Mind.

#23 kenj

  • Guest
  • 747 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Copenhagen.

Posted 23 March 2009 - 11:56 PM

He said that most of the CR gains in mice were from lower IGF1, but this is not the mechanism in humans. He said limiting protein (and simple/refined carbs) was a way to lower IGF1 in humans.



this was by far the most important take away from the discussion for me.


Well, how much protein is TOO much for a human? Luigi recommends to get the RDA of protein (0.82g per kilogram body weight, which translates to ~57g for a 70kg male), - that I'm fine with (*throwing out the 5LBS whey protein container*). No long lived populations ever gorged on protein, so surely ISTM protein in moderation does play a role in avoiding 'early decline' etc.. But maybe it's not a significant player for CRONies' longevity? Hm.
Yea, enjoyed the interview also. Thanks again to Mind for hosting and Fontana for participating.

#24 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:09 AM

These are survival stats for lower and higher protein levels.

SURVIVAL AD-LIB % PROTEIN CR % PROTEIN
(DAYS) 10% 22% 51% - - - 10% 22% 51%
---------------------------------------------------------
900; 8, 2, 6 - 145, 116, 149
1000; 0, 0, 1 - 93, 85, 122
1200; 0, 0, 0 - 48, 61, 91
1300; 0, 0, 0 - 5, 31, 59
1400; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 1, 24
1500; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 1, 10
1600; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 0, 3

More protein, more surviving to extreme ages. Table 2 here http://jn.nutrition....print/103/7/944

#25 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 24 March 2009 - 01:31 AM

These are survival stats for lower and higher protein levels.

SURVIVAL AD-LIB % PROTEIN CR % PROTEIN
(DAYS) 10% 22% 51% - - - 10% 22% 51%
---------------------------------------------------------
900; 8, 2, 6 - 145, 116, 149
1000; 0, 0, 1 - 93, 85, 122
1200; 0, 0, 0 - 48, 61, 91
1300; 0, 0, 0 - 5, 31, 59
1400; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 1, 24
1500; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 1, 10
1600; 0, 0, 0 - 0, 0, 3

More protein, more surviving to extreme ages. Table 2 here http://jn.nutrition....print/103/7/944


you are making the same mistake that dr. fontana was pointing out that many CR practitioners may be doing -- you are taking rodent data and extrapolating it to humans. this may be incorrect.


because:

1. mice and humans have different metabolic conditions, die of different causes (mice = cancer, humans = heart disease). don't forget that mice have telomerase all over their bodies, feeding them tons of protein may be ideal. humans need to live a long-time and it's not as important to grow in your later years, only to replace existing damaged tissue. overeating protein seems to me to be a legitimate potential negative for humans.
2. calorie restriction may be more important to mice and a higher percentage of protein may be more beneficial, this results in LOWER IGF-1 for the rodents.
3. the same type of diet DOES NOT result in lower IGF-1 for humans.

so the $64,000 question is, what does it mean for CR and what should the total protein in-take be for humans to optimize the outcome?

that is why I wondered about the monkey studies (at university of Wisconsin). I actually emailed Dr. Fontana on this issue this AM after I thought about it last nite, but he has not replied yet. I will post if he does.

I think we have to look for studies and more data related to this issue, but my best guess based on everything I've read on this forum, medical studies, and what Dr. Fontana was pointing out is that you want a lower calorie diet. you obviously do not want to overeat vs. what you are burning/consuming metabolically in a day. But also very important is to restrict your protein in-take at certain points so that you are getting the proper amount in total, but not preventing metabolic processes like autophagy (self-digestion of misfolded proteins from occurring by themselves). Intermittent protein usage may be the key to optimizing a CR-like diet.

I've started to restrict all major protein until dinner; gonna see how that works out for a bit.

#26 tunt01

  • Guest
  • 2,308 posts
  • 414
  • Location:NW

Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:57 PM

All:

I traded emails w/ Dr. Fontana after the Imminst hosted chat on Sunday 3/22.

I asked him to qualify his opinion on protein in-take, difference between rodents/humans, IGF-1, and CR. (see post directly above and others in this thread)

His response is that he views protein as an important determinant of health and that higher protein in-take is simply not safe. In general, the scientific community needs more research on calories vs. protein % vs. fat %.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users