22 replies to this topic

[lucidver]

Hi, I was wondering if there were any supplements that decreased ones need for sleep? I am currently sleeping in excess of 12 hours a day, so I am simply looking to get that down to a more natural amount (6-8 hours would be fine).

Thanks.

Edited by lucidver, 25 March 2009 - 09:16 AM.

[bgwithadd]

There's nothing that makes you need less sleep. But, you are clearly getting too much. You must have some issue. If you are not showing signs of depression or something else that can be remedied otherwise then I'd try upping dopamine, NE, and PEA. You will be sure to sleep much less. Wellbutrin, deprenyl, memantine, mucuna pruriens, tyrosine, PEA, ECGC. Not all at once obviously or you will very likely not sleep for a week and likely drop dead (I came fairly close just by adding memantine in to the mix, not realizing it had such strong effect). Try adding them in and see what you can get. For a while when I added some of these in I really thought I might never sleep again. The wellbutrin alone should be enough to keep you awake for all but the most serious narcolepsy or fatigue, if you can get your hands on it, but some people don't react too well. Usually the bad side effects lessen a lot after a few weeks, though.

Only after trying all those together and not getting enough results would I try using stuff like modafinil or adderall or ritalin to stay awake (or high dose caffeine). Actually, I'd never use adderall for that. At the doses needed to stay awake, you will be burning your brain out with amazing speed (and making yourself even harder to rouse).

[JLL]

Eating a lowish-carb diet and doing intermittent fasting has at least seemingly reduced my need of sleep to 7 hours per night. However, this only seems to work when my sleep schedule is fixed. From 11 PM to 6 AM is no good, for example, but 2 AM to 9 AM is. I

Edited by JLL, 25 March 2009 - 11:12 AM.

[lucidver]

There's nothing that makes you need less sleep. But, you are clearly getting too much. You must have some issue. If you are not showing signs of depression or something else that can be remedied otherwise then I'd try upping dopamine, NE, and PEA. You will be sure to sleep much less. Wellbutrin, deprenyl, memantine, mucuna pruriens, tyrosine, PEA, ECGC. Not all at once obviously or you will very likely not sleep for a week and likely drop dead (I came fairly close just by adding memantine in to the mix, not realizing it had such strong effect). Try adding them in and see what you can get. For a while when I added some of these in I really thought I might never sleep again. The wellbutrin alone should be enough to keep you awake for all but the most serious narcolepsy or fatigue, if you can get your hands on it, but some people don't react too well. Usually the bad side effects lessen a lot after a few weeks, though.

Only after trying all those together and not getting enough results would I try using stuff like modafinil or adderall or ritalin to stay awake (or high dose caffeine). Actually, I'd never use adderall for that. At the doses needed to stay awake, you will be burning your brain out with amazing speed (and making yourself even harder to rouse).

>
Are any of the things you mentioned available over the counter?

I can ask my doc about switching to Wellbutrin tomorrow...

[bgwithadd]

memantine and deprenyl you need to order on internet or get from doctor. The rest can all be picked up from most supplement stores except PEA, which is not common in stores and usuallt has to be ordered online.

[Heliotrope]

sleeping in excess of 12 hours a day is definitely too much.

90% of people sleep 7-8 hours per night. 5% of people sleep more than that, 5% sleep less. I find I'm toward the unfortunate 5% now. I haven't needed to sleep 10-12 hr since in the 1st or 2nd grade if I recall.

I also thought the older a person gets, the less sleep he/she may need. A man claimed to have lived over the age of 200 in China said his secret to living a long life is to "sleep like a dog" "move slowly like a turtle", but most important "sleep a lot, half of a day (12 hrs ) " etc.

Too much sleep seems to be a marker for some disease. People who naturally sleep a lot more than otherwise happy and healthy people who only need 5-6 hours tend to not be all that healthy.


What does anyone think about an analogous form of CR to sleep? let's call it SR (sleep restrict.). CR does lead to less sleep I think? I don't have 1st-hand experience since not meditating on doing CR longterm


If supplement caffiene and piracetam , I find they act better in your system if you don't eat 100% full meals every single meal, the downside would be more vomit-inducing instincts, bad vibes and feelings

Edited by HYP86, 25 March 2009 - 10:42 PM.

[GoodFellas]

There's nothing that makes you need less sleep. But, you are clearly getting too much. You must have some issue. If you are not showing signs of depression or something else that can be remedied otherwise then I'd try upping dopamine, NE, and PEA. You will be sure to sleep much less. Wellbutrin, deprenyl, memantine, mucuna pruriens, tyrosine, PEA, ECGC.

Tyrosine is a SLEEP AID so it would just make you sleep more. Btw, I'm using PEA now, would it affect my sleep?

[4eva]

You might consider improving the quality of your sleep. Improved sleep quality might leave you feeling rested from less than 12 hours of sleep per day.

If you're taking an anti-depressant you might try more B6. B6 supplements, if you're deficient, can improve sleep quality. B6 is critical for neurotransmitters. If you're taking ADs you probably need more B6.

B12 can also improve sleep quality and it can also help with shift work (regulates sleep-wake cycle). I read on another forum about a supplement with 15 mg of methyl B12 and how users noticed improved sleep from it. High doses of B12 causes no side effects unlike B6. But if you carefully increase your B6 dose until dream recall is restored you may be able to avoid problems with toxicity of B6.

[VespeneGas]

There's nothing that makes you need less sleep. But, you are clearly getting too much. You must have some issue. If you are not showing signs of depression or something else that can be remedied otherwise then I'd try upping dopamine, NE, and PEA. You will be sure to sleep much less. Wellbutrin, deprenyl, memantine, mucuna pruriens, tyrosine, PEA, ECGC.

Tyrosine is a SLEEP AID so it would just make you sleep more. Btw, I'm using PEA now, would it affect my sleep?

Dude. Tyrosine is not a SLEEP AID. It's an amino acid, a precursor to dopamine, and it's mildly stimulating.

http://www.stormingm...42/A464264.html
http://www.webscienc...cfm?ID=19963406

And if PEA isn't giving you stimulating effects, you're probably not taking enough. Not that I think supplementing PEA is a good idea. Why are you even supplementing PEA if not for the speed-like effects?

http://cat.inist.fr/...&cpsidt=2350263
http://www.springerl...21368846768g16/
http://molpharm.aspe.../full/67/4/1283

@ the OP: what happens to you if you try getting out of bed after only 7-9 hours of sleep? Are you totally exhausted, or do you feel fine? Are you depressed?

[bgwithadd]

People have gotten some wacky ideas about tyrosine lately.

Some people do take l-dopa before bed. I was going to search for a kinder word, but basically because they are retarded and think this will act as a muscle growth aid. It will also cause crazy dreams, so that is something some people do.

[Bluenoise]

Deprenyl seems to have lowered my sleep requirements. It was never bad before hand admittly, but now I get 7-7.5 hours of sleep everynight, and can funtion perfectly with 6 hours. Before I needed 8-9 hours each night, and was completley useless with anything less than 7 hours. I also take a very low dose (I'm 27 btw) of 0.125 - 0.25mg liquid deprenyl citrate. Also I find CDP-choline (taken at anytime during the day) improves my quality of sleep. I don't wake up at night at all with it, and feel like the overall quality of my sleep has improved.

[stargazer]

GHB seems to make your sleep more "effective" and thus shorten the needed duration. I'm not condoning its use however.

[wiserd]

Have your thyroid hormones checked. If possible (this will be difficult) have reverseT3 checked as well as things like TSH and T4. Too much rT3 can make you sluggish even if other parameters are normal. If the problem is insufficient thyroid, there are both medical and non-medical interventions. Non-medical would by tyrosine and possibly iron + Ascorbate if you're a woman. Men don't lose iron each month like women do and have no good way to get rid of it. Iron alters the T3 to rT3 ratio. Be very careful of overdosing on iron. Educate yourself on it first, if you can.

Pharmaceutically, artificial T4 can be used to treat this condition. (Levoxyl, IIRC. But many people have to try several T4 formulations to find one that works with their chemistry. If you get a bad reaction, insist to your doctor that you try some other T4 version). If all T4 versions fail to correct the problem, cytomel (artificial T3) can be added to the mix.

As mentioned earlier, reduce sugar and make sure liver function is normal. Is your poop a nice dark brown? If not, the discoloration could be a key to how your liver has gone off kilter.

[chrono]

This thread on M&M may be of interest: Less sleep with ALCAR + l-theanine, And feel great all day!

[Logan]

Melatonin. Makes me require less sleep. A good 6 hour time release brand should be good.

[xdopamine]

Glycine.

[xontek]

sleepwarrior.com

it's a free ebook.

I sleep 4 and half hours a day with the tips I used from that site.

[chrono]

I feel it should be pointed out that a certain amount of sleep is necessary for proper memory consolidation, among other things. Even if you can achieve lower levels of sleep and feel OK, you may be doing yourself a disservice. Especially at something like half the generally accepted figure.

Edited by chrono, 02 June 2010 - 07:42 PM.

[TigerMask]

Theanine. This is one of the reasons I take it at night. Many people note a more positive mood upon waking when theanine is taken the night before. Though I can't vouch for ALCAR, be sure to check out the M&M thread in the post above.

[chrono]

Theanine. This is one of the reasons I take it at night. Many people note a more positive mood upon waking when theanine is taken the night before. Though I can't vouch for ALCAR, be sure to check out the M&M thread in the post above.

What dosage do you use for this effect?

[TigerMask]

I used 300 - 450 mg, with the dosage typically being 300 mg. In the future I will try a lower dosage like 100 - 200 mg (mostly for financial reasons). Funk, as he mentioned recently in his regimen thread, used 100 - 200 mg at bedtime which seemingly (according to him) improved sleep quality and also improved his mood upon waking (link to his post: http://www.imminst.o...&...t&p=411421).

Taurine may also help with waking mood when taken at bedtime -- I'll have to do more research with one and report back.

As far as ALCAR, you'll have to check out the following thread as I have no experience with it: http://www.mindandmu...?showtopic=3815

[Thorsten3]

GHB seems to make your sleep more "effective" and thus shorten the needed duration. I'm not condoning its use however.

I wouldn't go anywhere near it as it has too much abuse potential

[tea76]

Unfortunately it seems like it's possible to build a tolerance to Tyrosine, since it's a dopamine precursor (?).

Guys, do you have any other suggestions on how to reduce sleep needs through supplements, that can be taken continuously? At the moment I'm sleeping anything between 9 - 12 hours or more, which is really problematic.
I'm self-employed so I don't have any immediate "external pressures" to wake up earlier, except when I'm close to deadlines. And I can't really "create" these pressures (such as forcing myself to making appointments with friends etc) since I don't have time for that anyway. I literally need to work all day, but would like minimum 7.5 hours of sleep or at most 8.5 hours.

Edited by ecglsd, 12 January 2013 - 09:19 PM.