2 replies to this topic

[Bruce Klein]

A Dialogue on Reincarnation
by Ray Kurzweil

If you were offered physical immortality as a "Wallerstein brain" (a human brain maintained in a jar interfacing to a virtual reality through its sensory and motor neurons), would you accept it? The question came up in an email dialogue about reincarnation between Ray Kurzweil and Steve Rabinowitz, a practicing attorney in New York City (which he says may explain his need to believe in reincarnation).

Published on KurzweilAI.net January 6, 2004.

Ray: You mentioned that you believe in reincarnation. I know that this is the belief of many traditions. But as you know, following a "tradition" is not always the most reliable way of achieving the truth of the matter. There are a lot of traditions that have arbitrary and nonsensical beliefs.

So I was wondering: do you really believe in reincarnation, or are you just accepting without critical reflection this belief from a tradition that has provided you with a lot of other benefits? Or to put it another way, what evidence do you have for reincarnation?

One concern I have with this belief is that it can be viewed as yet another rationalization for death. As I mentioned, our religious traditions have gone to extensive lengths to rationalize death. It is obvious to me that death is a tragedy, but up until very recently, it has appeared that there was nothing we could do about it, other than to rationalize that it must, after all, be a good thing. This view would apply to reincarnation.

One might argue that what's the harm in rationalizing death? The harm is that in rationalizing something that is tragic, we fail to take the urgent action needed to avoid the tragedy, something which is now becoming feasible. As Dylan Thomas wrote: "Do not go gentle into that good night,. . .Rage, rage against the dying of the light."


Steve: My reincarnation conjecture was in response to Amy's [Kurzweil, Ray's daughter] statement [below], which blew me away. Ethan [Kurzweil, Ray's son] had already expressed skepticism to me about the desirability of immortality at a previous luncheon, but Amy's reason for rejecting it took me totally by surprise: "So boring."


More:
http://www.kurzweila...es/art0609.html

[DJS]

If you were offered physical immortality as a "Wallerstein brain" (a human brain maintained in a jar interfacing to a virtual reality through its sensory and motor neurons), would you accept it?

I was under the impression that this was a hypothetical scenario invisioned by Dennett, or am I wrong?

[jbmichaels]

Ray, the concept of immortality in a jar has many implications and subsequent considerations. For one, who would maintain and keep the jar and what would be the motivation for doing so. Of course we could go off the philisophical edge as in Matrix where some planet sized machine was set up for just this purpose by its builders and so it would be possible. But there are much more interesting and alternatives to this scenario. In addition to total body replacement, the mind, brain, could be replaced cell by cell with nanocyber units. The translation would be gradual and one would morph but it would be some semblance of keeping one's soul and not simply being a replicant.

The desire for immortality depends on the person. I.E. A person who is knowledge and experience seeking, creative, and could easily go thousands of years fulfilling various projects, professions, and relationships. Yet there is the story of an Arab possessing the stone of immortality.. red and blue with a white stripe (a true story actually) and the instruction are to make to two portions.. One which makes you immortal, the other that kills you. Assumption. Very few want true immortality.

My ex mother in law died several years ago and was quite vehement in her criticism of my interest in longevity. The essence of this was she was very obsese, smoked two packs a day, and loved fatty pork and anything grossly caloric. She said to me "I would rather live a few years enjoying myself than hundreds worrying about my vices." She died less than 3 years after that statement. And I thought, well, as Hawkman did in Flash Gordon.. some people feel.. who wants to live forever. In Zardoz, the immortals were pitiful, often becoming apathetics, semi comatose, losing all human emotion.

Personally, you and I Ray.. I know we want to live forever and I am sure we would do a very good job of it.

jb
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