32 replies to this topic

[MrSpud]

FYI - I don't remember the exact price, but real Pycnogenol goes for about $1000 per kg or thereabouts. There are some generic pine bark extracts that also meet the same specifications (the specifications for Maritime pine bark extract in the United States Pharmacopoeia) but they go for about $800 per kg or thereabout. Then there are many generic pine bark extracts that don't meet the USP specs and aren't from the same species and they typically are less than $100 per kg. They aren't the same, nor do they claim to be the same. OPC's and proanthocyanidins and polyphenols aren't just one identical molecule, there are a whole bunch of different things that are polyphenols and they have different properties and some are also different in bioavailability.

Here's a monograph on Pycnogenol that gives a lot of details on it's effects http://www.pycnogeno...o120809_LOW.pdf

Regarding heavy metal specs, there are a whole bunch of different ways to test and a lot of times a less sensitive cheaper method is used just to make sure something isn't grossly contaminated and they are usually just to make sure that there is less than something like 10 parts per million total heavy metals. Most of the time the result is none detected so it will say something like <10ppm on a C of A. Othertimes more expensive tests that can identify parts per billion are used, especially if someone is screening to see if it meets California's Proposition 65 limits (for example, you have to make sure lead is less than 0.5 micrograms per daily serving). For the sensitive test you would use a fancy instrument called ICP MS which can measure ppb and identify all the heavy metasl as well as minerals. But many just do spot checking with the fancy test and just do the gross contamination screening for every lot. By the way, the FDA considers a daily serving safe if the lead level is less than 15 mcg.
Sorry if this is a bit rambling. Just trying to give some perspective. Gotto run now though.

[nameless]

I just purchased purebulk's generic brand for $17 shipped for 100 grams. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for pycnogenol the first time around. its just so damn expensive, Although I know that I often wind up paying more when I try to go 'cheap' first and the quality isn't there. I wonder why another French company, or somebody else, hasn't grown and marketed generic pine bark extract from the same species.

Anyway, upon reading about heavy metals in pine bark of chinese trees due to nearby manufacturing, I'm now worried about the purity of what I have. However, China is a large country and this may be a clean extract. The CofA on purebulks website lists "heavy metals" at 8.0 ppm. Lead and cadmium are less than 1.0 and.1 respectively. I have no idea what safe is, or what would be normal for pine bark extracts from other locations/species. I am wondering if I can trust purebulk to sell a relatively clean product, to have a trustworthy CofA on file, and if 8.0ppm is acceptable.

Any insight would be appreciated.

If it was me, I'd be concerned about any non-brand, bulk pine bark like that. The COA may look good, but where did the COA come from? Was it a 3rd party lab, or from China? And even if a 3rd party lab, can it be trusted?

A while ago we discussed pycnogenol vs grape seed vs pine bark:
http://www.longecity...__1#entry324740

I also had an email chat with a scientist over at Enzogenol, who provided a lot of useful information (at least to me). Maybe it can help you a little bit. But to summarize, generic pine barks aren't the same as pycnogenol.

As for other companies making a branded pine bark, I believe there is one under the Masquelier name, but it's as pricey or pricier than Pycnogenol. Source one does too: http://www.source-1-global.com/opc.php

But I have no idea what they charge, what supplements use them, of if their extraction methods are the same as what Horphag uses. Another factor to remember is pretty much all pine bark studies used pycnogenol.

[MrSpud]

FYI - I double checked the price of Pycnogenol and generic Maritime Pine Bark extract that meets the USP specifications. Real pycnogenol costs between $3000 and $4000 per kg depending on quantity and the generic costs between $2500 and $3000 kg depending on quantity. This is in comparison to other pine bark extracts that are typically less than $100 don't meet the USP specifications for Maritime Pine Bark Extract. The cheap ones are totally different.